Young Avengers Appreciation 2022

[ComicNoobie]

I probably won't buy it, but yeah, reprints for YA comics are always a good sign. It means there's interest in the books. I won't get too excited about a potential Vol. 3 though, because YA comics were more popular than ever last year because of the MCU and Marvel did nothing to capitalize on that. Then again, it took them a very long time to give Wanda an ongoing book after her MCU boom, so who knows. Maybe the YA synergy will arrive late too.

Aww. I just want a volume 3 run. Is that so wrong, Marvel? I crave a Young Avengers reunion and new book of them fighting villains. Hard to believe there was a time they were truly a part of the Marvel Universe and apart of these big events like Civil War and Siege. Now the members barely appear anywhere anymore

spoilers:

I got to see leaked footage of the Ant-Man 3 trailer and Cassie is indeed still a brunette in the trailer. I'll forever question that choice given the actress is naturally blonde, but it's not a deal breaker. As long as Kathryn Newton does a good job being Cassie then it's not a big deal. I just wish they went for comic accuracy. As if anyone would really care if Cassie suddenly went blonde, especially when Natasha, a much bigger and more well known character, changed hair styles between Infinity War and Endgame.

end of spoilers

[Frontier]

I'm not saying they would do Wiccan and Speed and not acknowledge their connection to Wanda at all, but I do think that the extent of their relationship could vary depending on what set of twins they decide to adapt. Bringing back the exact same Billy and Tommy Maximoff from WandaVision would certainly put more pressure on Wanda to be their mother than if they came back reincarnated with other families. If they do Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shepherd, I think they would have more liberty to focus on their role as Young Avengers instead of just Wanda's kids, and ultimately, that's what I care about as a YA fan.

And btw, that would be good for Wanda too. After two entire productions that mostly revolved around her being a wife/mother, I think it would be nice if she could go forward in the MCU with other type of stories.

Yeah, but them being more or less Wanda's kids in some form or another is a big aspect to their status as Young Avengers and their connection to the teams' identity as Avengers legacies.

I don't think showing her as a wife/mother is a bad thing so much as how they just used it as an excuse to make Wanda evil and crazy again.

[Drops Of Venus]

spoilers:

I got to see leaked footage of the Ant-Man 3 trailer and Cassie is indeed still a brunette in the trailer. I'll forever question that choice given the actress is naturally blonde, but it's not a deal breaker. As long as Kathryn Newton does a good job being Cassie then it's not a big deal. I just wish they went for comic accuracy. As if anyone would really care if Cassie suddenly went blonde, especially when Natasha, a much bigger and more well known character, changed hair styles between Infinity War and Endgame.

end of spoilers

They should just let Kathryn be blonde for Young Avengers with like, no explanation. A young girl dyeing her hair is not exactly a wild concept.

As for the leaked trailer: spoilers:

it seems to confirm the description about Kang holding Cassie hostage. The most interesting thing to me was that when he asked Scott to steal something for him, Cassie shook her head negatively, as if trying to say to her dad that he shouldn't do it. This implies she knows something about Kang's plans. It's gonna be VERY interesting to see just how this Kang/Cassie dynamic is going to go. As a YA fan, I'm excited!

end of spoilers

Yeah, but them being more or less Wanda's kids in some form or another is a big aspect to their status as Young Avengers and their connection to the teams' identity as Avengers legacies.

I don't think showing her as a wife/mother is a bad thing so much as how they just used it as an excuse to make Wanda evil and crazy again.

All I'm saying is that they should follow the comics. After Children's Crusade, how many times Wanda interacted with Billy and Tommy? You can probably count that in one hand. Like, yeah, they'll always have an important connection to each other, but other than to flex about status and legacy, it doesn't really impact their own individual stories that much. Billy and Tommy are essentially their own separate characters with their own stories in the comics, and so is Wanda. I just want future writers to have the liberty to adapt those stories without feeling the need to tie something back to WandaVision every time, you know? The show was good, but it's over. It served its purpose. I think it's time for new things now.

[Wiccan]

I used to be against reincarnation in the MCU but now I'm up for it lol.

[Journey]

I'd argue the lack of relationship between Wanda & her Sons makes her look bad considering all she did from their loss it always has in the comics. She literally wiped out a species in her grief for them just to go on & say "they make me uncomfortable" like are the emotions valid sure but it's not a good look. Doing something similar in the MCU just makes her look even worse & it would be on a much larger scale.

Like yes all 3 can have their own stories but the relationship between them is in need of improvement especially in the comics (we literally got a panel a few weeks ago of Tommy saying both sets of his parents disappointed him) the MCU could be the 1st step to repairing something that should have been fixed years ago.

[Frontier]

They should just let Kathryn be blonde for Young Avengers with like, no explanation. A young girl dyeing her hair is not exactly a wild concept.

As for the leaked trailer: spoilers:

it seems to confirm the description about Kang holding Cassie hostage. The most interesting thing to me was that when he asked Scott to steal something for him, Cassie shook her head negatively, as if trying to say to her dad that he shouldn't do it. This implies she knows something about Kang's plans. It's gonna be VERY interesting to see just how this Kang/Cassie dynamic is going to go. As a YA fan, I'm excited!

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'm not sure if she knows about his plan so much as just she knows you shouldn't make deals with Supervillains. I was surprised she seems to be already wearing her suit.

end of spoilers

All I'm saying is that they should follow the comics. After Children's Crusade, how many times Wanda interacted with Billy and Tommy? You can probably count that in one hand. Like, yeah, they'll always have an important connection to each other, but other than to flex about status and legacy, it doesn't really impact their own individual stories that much. Billy and Tommy are essentially their own separate characters with their own stories in the comics, and so is Wanda. I just want future writers to have the liberty to adapt those stories without feeling the need to tie something back to WandaVision every time, you know? The show was good, but it's over. It served its purpose. I think it's time for new things now.

But isn't their lack of connection or relationship something that's frequently complained about? I mean, you can totally tell new stories with them that emphasize the family dynamic more.

I don't think WandaVision would be that relevant beyond how it ties into their origin story and connection to Wanda.

[ComicNoobie]

They should just let Kathryn be blonde for Young Avengers with like, no explanation. A young girl dyeing her hair is not exactly a wild concept.

As for the leaked trailer: spoilers:

it seems to confirm the description about Kang holding Cassie hostage. The most interesting thing to me was that when he asked Scott to steal something for him, Cassie shook her head negatively, as if trying to say to her dad that he shouldn't do it. This implies she knows something about Kang's plans. It's gonna be VERY interesting to see just how this Kang/Cassie dynamic is going to go. As a YA fan, I'm excited!

end of spoilers

spoilers:

Hopefully if/when we get Young Avengers she'll transition to being Cassie's natural blonde self. It would be equally great if by that time she has her suit red and black for Stature colors. I doubt it, since they'll likely wanna go the Stinger route with her. Though we don't see any wings on her suit so maybe it's a fusion of the two. Either way she's got cool sneakers to go with it. And I do hope she interacts with Kang.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I'm not sure if she knows about his plan so much as just she knows you shouldn't make deals with Supervillains. I was surprised she seems to be already wearing her suit.

end of spoilers

spoilers:

She's in the suit, but how well does she know how to use it is what I wanna know. There has to be a scene where she goes "Stature" and crushes something. Maybe it'll be MODOK. We gotta see her in action doing something cool with the size changing.

end of spoilers

[Drops Of Venus]

I'd argue the lack of relationship between Wanda & her Sons makes her look bad considering all she did from their loss it always has in the comics. She literally wiped out a species in her grief for them just to go on & say "they make me uncomfortable" like are the emotions valid sure but it's not a good look. Doing something similar in the MCU just makes her look even worse & it would be on a much larger scale.

Like yes all 3 can have their own stories but the relationship between them is in need of improvement especially in the comics (we literally got a panel a few weeks ago of Tommy saying both sets of his parents disappointed him) the MCU could be the 1st step to repairing something that should have been fixed years ago.

The ironic thing is that both of those stories you're mentioning that make Wanda look like a ''bad mother'' (her 2015 solo and YA: Paradox Lost) were much better written and had so much more nuance than whatever the hell Leah Williams was trying to do in Trial Of Magneto where she tried to force a family dynamic that simply didn't exist, so where do we go from here? Do we just accept those type of stories because we want to see a cute superhero family fanservice or do we try to make the best out of a bad situation and actually tell good stories out of it?

BTW, I totally disagree with the notion that Wanda is a bad mother. You're looking at it from the optic that she is their mom and should always be there for them, but again, those are not her kids. They had a whole life without her. She knows that no matter how hard she tries, she will never be the mom that raised them, and that's what makes their relationship awkward in her eyes. I find that totally understandable. And let me just say... maybe we are dodging a bullet. 'Cause ultimately it was Wanda's family issues that assassinated her character in the comics, and now in the MCU. Maybe we're better off with writers not trying to constantly drag Billy and Tommy into this type of story, or we're gonna end up with more Trials Of Magneto out there. lol

As for the MCU ''trying to fix the mistakes of the comics''... I think this ship has sailed when DSITMOM leaned heavily into the crazy woman with power trope from the comics that Wanda fans have criticized for YEARS. I think you're giving them too much credit. So I say go ahead and keep following the comics while they're at it. lol

[Journey]

The ironic thing is that both of those stories you're mentioning that make Wanda look like a ''bad mother'' (her 2015 solo and YA: Paradox Lost) were much better written and had so much more nuance than whatever the hell Leah Williams was trying to do in Trial Of Magneto where she tried to force a family dynamic that simply didn't exist, so where do we go from here? Do we just accept those type of stories because we want to see a cute superhero family fanservice or do we try to make the best out of a bad situation and actually tell good stories out of it?

BTW, I totally disagree with the notion that Wanda is a bad mother. You're looking at it from the optic that she is their mom and should always be there for them, but again, those are not her kids. They had a whole life without her. She knows that no matter how hard she tries, she will never be the mom that raised them, and that's what makes their relationship awkward in her eyes. I find that totally understandable. And let me just say... maybe we are dodging a bullet. 'Cause ultimately it was Wanda's family issues that assassinated her character in the comics, and now in the MCU. Maybe we're better off with writers not trying to constantly drag Billy and Tommy into this type of story, or we're gonna end up with more Trials Of Magneto out there. lol

As for the MCU ''trying to fix the mistakes of the comics''... I think this ship has sailed when DSITMOM leaned heavily into the crazy woman with power trope from the comics that Wanda fans have criticized for YEARS. I think you're giving them too much credit. So I say go ahead and keep following the comics while they're at it. lol

I'm not saying Wanda's a bad mom like I said I found her explanation of her being uncomfortable around the twins valid AF it's the equivalent of a teen mom trying to get to know her kids later on life after giving them up for adoption or course theirs awkwardness their that's perfectly understandable.

From an optics standpoint tho it's just a bad look. Like Billy & Tommy are the catalyst for both disassembled & M-Day Wanda's greif over them drove her to commit horrible acts so for her to get them back in any form & not do her best to forge a better relationship with them makes her look crazy in these streets. She gets a little leeway as far as Billy goes cause he does have a supportive family, but the fact Tommy is disappointed in her is a bad look cause he has no good familial ties. So optically her lack or effort in her relationship with her kids just makes her look sorry in all honesty does she love them sure but the optics got her fucked up.

Now in the MCU we literally saw Wanda intentionally dropping 100's of bodies for her kids, tried to sacrifice a 15 year old girl, in the comics most of her kills were unintentional these were deliberate she would look even more fucked up if they followed the comic path & no effort is put into developing their bond post all 3's return she'd look even more like an erratic crazy woman. So I disagree strongly following the comic route of them having a standoffish relationship is not the move.

[gurkle]

I'm not saying Wanda's a bad mom like I said I found her explanation of her being uncomfortable around the twins valid AF it's the equivalent of a teen mom trying to get to know her kids later on life after giving them up for adoption or course theirs awkwardness their that's perfectly understandable.

From an optics standpoint tho it's just a bad look. Like Billy & Tommy are the catalyst for both disassembled & M-Day Wanda's greif over them drove her to commit horrible acts so for her to get them back in any form & not do her best to forge a better relationship with them makes her look crazy in these streets. She gets a little leeway as far as Billy goes cause he does have a supportive family, but the fact Tommy is disappointed in her is a bad look cause he has no good familial ties. So optically her lack or effort in her relationship with her kids just makes her look sorry in all honesty does she love them sure but the optics got her fucked up.

Now in the MCU we literally saw Wanda intentionally dropping 100's of bodies for her kids, tried to sacrifice a 15 year old girl, in the comics most of her kills were unintentional these were deliberate she would look even more fucked up if they followed the comic path & no effort is put into developing their bond post all 3's return she'd look even more like an erratic crazy woman. So I disagree strongly following the comic route of them having a standoffish relationship is not the move.

The standoffish relationship fits, though, because in both cases you're talking about a period where she was basically out of her mind and did things that she would normally consider horrible. The fact that she did these things (nominally) because of losing her kids would make her less likely to want to be around them -- it would be a constant reminder of her lowest moment and her worst crimes.

So in the MCU if she's back to normal, which I hope she will be, her reaction would be that it's way out of character for her to drop 100s of bodies and sacrifice a 15 year-old girl for copies of kids she barely even knew. That would not be a great basis for a relationship with whoever the kids end up being.

[Journey]

The standoffish relationship fits, though, because in both cases you're talking about a period where she was basically out of her mind and did things that she would normally consider horrible. The fact that she did these things (nominally) because of losing her kids would make her less likely to want to be around them -- it would be a constant reminder of her lowest moment and her worst crimes.

So in the MCU if she's back to normal, which I hope she will be, her reaction would be that it's way out of character for her to drop 100s of bodies and sacrifice a 15 year-old girl for copies of kids she barely even knew. That would not be a great basis for a relationship with whoever the kids end up being.

Gonna have to agree to disagree any mother who would just ignore a second chance at building a bond with her kids just because it's uncomfortable is what would make her a bad mom, a second chance with the twins is what she wanted to get that in ANY capacity even them older & to just throw it away makes her look terrible then all those bodies were for nothing.

[gurkle]

Gonna have to agree to disagree any mother who would just ignore a second chance at building a bond with her kids just because it's uncomfortable is what would make her a bad mom, a second chance with the twins is what she wanted to get that in ANY capacity even them older & to just throw it away makes her look terrible then all those bodies were for nothing.

I mean I think all those bodies were for nothing. In both the comics and the MCU it's a pointless outburst of violence that doesn't do anything to get her kids back.

But I think it's out of character for Wanda to want the kids back so badly in either story (in the comics because she accepted they were gone; in the MCU because she has forgotten about not only Vision, but the actual kids she created), so I think it would make sense for normal Wanda to have her doubts about them, since she doesn't recognize the Wanda who would be that obsessed with those kids; it's like a different person.

[Galerion]

Just chiming in two say the last few pages were enjoyable. That's a how a discussion should be. People brought up viewpoints I didn't consider and made me think. Kudos for that.
Now as for the topic. It's tough because you run into obstacles either way.

You can make Wanda and her sons into a happy family. There is a lot to explore there and I think that's what a lot of people expect. Now of course that would mean you reward Wandas behavior. Is that a problem? I think that depends. It wouldn't be the first time the bad deeds of a hero are downplayed and it certainly won't be the last time either. The rest is personal opinion.

You can make them not close as a way to punish Wanda or at least not reward her. I actually think this is highly unlikely to happen. For multiple reasons.

• Misery is a main character beat for Wanda. In pretty much all appearances she lost something or someone. Doing the same story beat over and over does get played out.
• It subverts expectations and not in a good way. They are Wandas kids. We have already seen them on screen in WV and they are part of the Scarlet Witch prophecy as seen in MoM. They will never be able to break that association just like comics Wanda can't do it with Magneto. Every time these two parties don't interact with each other despite being able to, questions will be raised and people who expected it will be disappointed.
• Now the last point might not make me the most popular considering this is the Young Avengers thread but there is the business side to consider. Wanda is the far more popular character. The character and the actress are both well-liked by the audience. If there is some kind of project she will be the main draw and people will mainly tune in for her. The comics were made at a time where Wanda wasn't that popular. I can guarantee if they would do the exact same thing now they would receive heavy backslash for it and it would be "fixed". See Wanda reconcile with Magneto.

Now I think there is a good middle ground to be found between these two extremes. I certainly don't think they will be portrayed as a happy family and act like nothing bad ever happened but their family ties will certainly be explored and hopefully over time enough interest can be built up that Billy and Tommy can stand on their own. Just like was the case with Wanda.

[Journey]

Just chiming in two say the last few pages were enjoyable. That's a how a discussion should be. People brought up viewpoints I didn't consider and made me think. Kudos for that.
Now as for the topic. It's tough because you run into obstacles either way.

You can make Wanda and her sons into a happy family. There is a lot to explore there and I think that's what a lot of people expect. Now of course that would mean you reward Wandas behavior. Is that a problem? I think that depends. It wouldn't be the first time the bad deeds of a hero are downplayed and it certainly won't be the last time either. The rest is personal opinion.

You can make them not close as a way to punish Wanda or at least not reward her. I actually think this is highly unlikely to happen. For multiple reasons.

• Misery is a main character beat for Wanda. In pretty much all appearances she lost something or someone. Doing the same story beat over and over does get played out.
• It subverts expectations and not in a good way. They are Wandas kids. We have already seen them on screen in WV and they are part of the Scarlet Witch prophecy as seen in MoM. They will never be able to break that association just like comics Wanda can't do it with Magneto. Every time these two parties don't interact with each other despite being able to, questions will be raised and people who expected it will be disappointed.
• Now the last point might not make me the most popular considering this is the Young Avengers thread but there is the business side to consider. Wanda is the far more popular character. The character and the actress are both well-liked by the audience. If there is some kind of project she will be the main draw and people will mainly tune in for her. The comics were made at a time where Wanda wasn't that popular. I can guarantee if they would do the exact same thing now they would receive heavy backslash for it and it would be "fixed". See Wanda reconcile with Magneto.

Now I think there is a good middle ground to be found between these two extremes. I certainly don't think they will be portrayed as a happy family and act like nothing bad ever happened but their family ties will certainly be explored and hopefully over time enough interest can be built up that Billy and Tommy can stand on their own. Just like was the case with Wanda.

I agree with a lot of these points I will say Billy can stand on his own without Wanda or Tommy if Teddy's in the picture their brand has it's own audience. Tommy however needs Wanda & or Billy to standout especially since he's not likely to get David anytime soon & Kate's age most likely locks out that romance familial connections are all he has he is fortunate in the fact Quicksilver being killed off means he has a lot of potential storyline he could take from him (in a sense)

[ComicNoobie]

I agree with a lot of these points I will say Billy can stand on his own without Wanda or Tommy if Teddy's in the picture their brand has it's own audience. Tommy however needs Wanda & or Billy to standout especially since he's not likely to get David anytime soon & Kate's age most likely locks out that romance familial connections are all he has he is fortunate in the fact Quicksilver being killed off means he has a lot of potential storyline he could take from him (in a sense)

Yeah, Billy/Wiccan has been able to stand on his own for ages. Being a powerful mage in his own right and potential future Sorcerer Supreme writes itself, then when you add in his relationship with Teddy and they got there own thing going on. I also agree about Tommy. He's always been the Young Avenger who lags behind the others in my opinion. I love Tommy, but he needs more stories. With no Quicksilver in the MCU this is actually a big opportunity to really dive into some speedster stories with him. I'm all for it.