Young Avengers Appreciation 2022

[Dermie]

Other than Marvel Voices Pride, do we know anything about upcoming appearances for anyone? Is it total radio silence for every YA character rn?

America Chavez has a few appearances lined up. She'll be in the DEFENDERS: BEYOND miniseries (with Loki) as well as the new THUNDERBOLTS book (which is currently a mini but may expand to ongoing if sales are strong enough).

Hulkling and Wiccan have had cameo appearances in the current arc of FANTASTIC FOUR for "The Reckoning War" -- they will likely show up again before the arc is over, but probably not in a large role given the sheer number of characters showing up.

I think that's it for confirmed appearances at the moment.

[Fokken]

America Chavez has a few appearances lined up. She'll be in the DEFENDERS: BEYOND miniseries (with Loki) as well as the new THUNDERBOLTS book (which is currently a mini but my expand to ongoing if sales are strong enough).

Hulkling and Wiccan have had cameo appearances in the current arc of FANTASTIC FOUR for "The Reckoning War" -- they will likely show up again before the arc is over, but probably not in a large role given the sheer number of characters showing up.

I think that's it for confirmed appearances at the moment.

Teddy will be appearing in X-Men Red eventually, per a preview image in an X-Men interview on AIPT

[GraysonXIV]

America Chavez has a few appearances lined up. She'll be in the DEFENDERS: BEYOND miniseries (with Loki) as well as the new THUNDERBOLTS book (which is currently a mini but my expand to ongoing if sales are strong enough).

Hulkling and Wiccan have had cameo appearances in the current arc of FANTASTIC FOUR for "The Reckoning War" -- they will likely show up again before the arc is over, but probably not in a large role given the sheer number of characters showing up.

I think that's it for confirmed appearances at the moment.

Thanks! Hoping we get some news soon.

[Drops Of Venus]

Things are kinda depressing in comics right now. I can't even get excited for the America stuff because they really killed my enjoyment of the character post retcon. I'm basically just living off of the MCU right now and hoping it'll inspire the comics to do something cool.

--

A picture of a deleted Billy/Tommy scene (with some concept special effects) from WandaVision has appeared online.



We kinda already knew this because his name was in the credits due to some shots of his body being used, but Jackson Robert Scott was originally cast as Billy, as we can clearly see in this picture. Apparently he shot a lot of scenes but couldn't make it back for the rest of it after Covid, so they recast him with Julian Hilliard.

[Journey]

So ironically that scene of Wanda murdering Mordo in the opening scene that supposedly was cut but adds up with the best leaks was reported to be a real thing today, & leads me to believe aging up the twins was something they ultimately did scrap upon production (which doesn't bother me) interesting right.

[Kingdom X]

So ironically that scene of Wanda murdering Mordo in the opening scene that supposedly was cut but adds up with the best leaks was reported to be a real thing today, & leads me to believe aging up the twins was something they ultimately did scrap upon production (which doesn't bother me) interesting right.

Yeah at the end of the day a tacked on aging up of the twins wouldn't have done much for me, UNLESS they cast the perfect actors for the roles. Rather them take their time w/ casting.

I do hope they announce a YA project sooner rather than later. They're clearly assembling the characters, so lets get it poppin Disney.

[MasterOfMagnetism]

It's not like that leak needed any more credibility considering it was like 90% correct anyway but yeah, it was totally legit.

Yeah at the end of the day a tacked on aging up of the twins wouldn't have done much for me, UNLESS they cast the perfect actors for the roles. Rather them take their time w/ casting.

I do hope they announce a YA project sooner rather than later. They're clearly assembling the characters, so lets get it poppin Disney.

A post-credits scene showing the older version of the twins wouldn't have been any more tacked-on than the scene with spoilers:

Clea, and Strange already being used to his third eye,

end of spoilers that detracted from the suspense of the film's ending.

But like I said before; based on leaks, they've punted on introducing the older versions of the twins twice already. So I honestly wonder if they've already been cast? Like if Marvel has planned to introduce them twice before what are the odds the actors they want to play them are already lined-up?

[gurkle]

The leak that said the twins would be aged up also mentioned the tag scene, though.

It's possible, as I said, that if there is a Scarlet Witch project in the works like credible rumors say (and boy, do I hope so), that's taking the spot of a Young Avengers/Children's Crusade type of project.

This movie was based on (sigh) Avengers Disassembled, and idea of Billy and Tommy being aged up at the end fits perfectly with what happened in Young Avengers: Wanda goes nuts because her kids weren't real, but unknown to everyone, they are real and they're teenagers now.

[Drops Of Venus]

So ironically that scene of Wanda murdering Mordo in the opening scene that supposedly was cut but adds up with the best leaks was reported to be a real thing today, & leads me to believe aging up the twins was something they ultimately did scrap upon production (which doesn't bother me) interesting right.

I saw a bunch of people talking about the alleged scene on Twitter, but was it really confirmed by anyone from the production? They've said things that leads me to the belief the scene was real (Olsen saying Wanda was originally gonna kill more, Waldron saying they originally had plans for 616 Mordo), but IDK, it just seems like too big of a scene for them to just casually reveal like that. Even if the scene existed, I'm not sure the people involved with the movie would talk about it.

Same thing goes for the alleged scene with the twins at the end. Even if it existed at some point, I don't think they would confirm it through interviews. It's too big of a plot development to spoil like that.

But like I said before; based on leaks, they've punted on introducing the older versions of the twins twice already. So I honestly wonder if they've already been cast? Like if Marvel has planned to introduce them twice before what are the odds the actors they want to play them are already lined-up?

This made me think of something, that traces back to that leak from last year too. Do y'all remember the audition tape people found from Julien Debaker? That was found just one month before the Reddit leak that was mostly correct. If there was a script back in 2021 that featured an older Billy and Tommy, it lines up with the time Julien might've auditioned for the role.

And here's the interesting thing: in January of this year, Julien went to Twitter to reveal he didn't get the role. January was the final month of additional shootings for the movie, so whoever needed to be cast for the first cut of the movie was likely already cast. So yeah, I'm thinking we might already have a Wiccan and Speed cast OR they just decided to give up on it for the time being and will resume casting for whichever next project they'll be needed for.

[gurkle]

I saw a bunch of people talking about the alleged scene on Twitter, but was it really confirmed by anyone from the production? They've said things that leads me to the belief the scene was real (Olsen saying Wanda was originally gonna kill more, Waldron saying they originally had plans for 616 Mordo), but IDK, it just seems like too big of a scene for them to just casually reveal like that. Even if the scene existed, I'm not sure the people involved with the movie would talk about it.

The people at Marvel are very tight-lipped about what they changed, but Wanda beheading Mordo was in the plot leak from last summer (posted by some anonymous Reddit user who said they had a friend who was a PA) that turned out to be almost completely right. The only things it got wrong were stuff they changed in reshoots like a couple of the Illuminati members, and scenes that were cut.

The fact that we don't see "our" Mordo at all in the film, just his variant, is probably another hint that it's true, since there must have been a scene with the original Mordo that didn't make it in.

Raimi and co. decided the whole movie would run on sudden shocks, so they made Wanda evil from the beginning (originally it was going to happen later, they've said that) and Mordo shows up just to get instantly killed, the way the Illuminati do later.

[Ibara]

I think at some point an older Billy and Tommy were in the cards for WandaVision and MoM. With the changes this could mean they've gone in another direction or their reappearance has been pushed back to other projects. If, big if, the rumors of Kate showing in Quantumania are true then the boys might appear in a post-credits scene. Honestly though I'm not too enthused about an MCU YA just yet. I like Kate, America was too Disney channel, Kathryn Newton might spend the entire movie as a civvie, we'll hopefully get Eli in Cap4?, Ms. Marvel might get shucked onto us, no word on Teddy, and Billy/Tommy could just be hanging out with Mephisto and never make a return to the MCU proper.

Also we got a small cameo by Emperor Hulkling and Wiccan in today's FF. This might be a hot take, but still hating Teddy as Emperor. The boys would still be in limbo regardless, but space limbo is so boring. This maybe 20something y/o young man should not be leading the reconstruction of an Empire/Alliance he has basically no understanding of - what skills does he bring to the table? Why not establish a council, parliament, or HoR to actually run things? They've yet to prove that they can run an empire and still be active in the MU and I fear this will just lead to them being the Kree/Skrull attaches; only ever used when their corner of space is needed in a story (and Pride Month) and nothing more, they can't be Avengers, they can't be on a team, they're just rulers in a faraway galaxy.

Cute of them to show up in FF ig.

[Wiccan]

I think it's probably more like the people involved in DSMOM deciding to let whoever will be handling Young Avengers or whatever project Wanda is showing up next deal with the twins situation. The movie doesn't offer any explanation to how Billy and Tommy would have come back after WandaVision, since so far they're still gone and the ones Wanda was going after were just alternate versions.

And while I do support the recast, because even Xochitl who's younger than Hailee/Kathryn still has a significant age gap with them, I feel like they're probably considering keeping Julian and Jett due to how beloved they've become in the fandom.

[Ibara]

I think it's probably more like the people involved in DSMOM deciding to let whoever will be handling Young Avengers or whatever project Wanda is showing up next deal with the twins situation. The movie doesn't offer any explanation to how Billy and Tommy would have come back after WandaVision, since so far they're still gone and the ones Wanda was going after were just alternate versions.

And while I do support the recast, because even Xochitl who's younger than Hailee/Kathryn still has a significant age gap with them, I feel like they're probably considering keeping Julian and Jett due to how beloved they've become in the fandom.

It could work, and I do find Jett and Julian endearing, but also think having the boys "not exist" in the 616 MCU is a slight signal they're going with different actors. There's a reason Wanda couldn't find them and it would make sense that a possible reincarnation would have interfered with her recognizing them. Beyond that, the actors are currently 10-12, and the myriad of extra variables that come along with child actors in particular would just make keeping Julian and Jett more of a risk than the potential favor from keeping them, especially since there's already considerable excitement over their potential fancasting.

Anyways it could go either way. Like you, I support a recast, but they could keep them as well.

On the Xochi note, she seems like a great person and really excited about her role, but I hope the editing just did her dirty in MoM because her America left alot to be desired. Much of it from the actual script that left her underdeveloped and lacking any sort of characterization outside of being a scared MacGuffin. But there were moments acting-wise, that's lets just say, were lackluster (her Defender scene, that faint, her 'memory' reaction, the 3rd act 'fight'). She'll certainly grow and develop, but it serves to showcase that actors need experience to attain skill in their craft and compelling child actors are more exception than the rule.

[Wiccan]

It could work, and I do find Jett and Julian endearing, but also think having the boys "not exist" in the 616 MCU is a slight signal they're going with different actors. There's a reason Wanda couldn't find them and it would make sense that a possible reincarnation would have interfered with her recognizing them. Beyond that, the actors are currently 10-12, and the myriad of extra variables that come along with child actors in particular would just make keeping Julian and Jett more of a risk than the potential favor from keeping them, especially since there's already considerable excitement over their potential fancasting.

Anyways it could go either way. Like you, I support a recast, but they could keep them as well.

On the Xochi note, she seems like a great person and really excited about her role, but I hope the editing just did her dirty in MoM because her America left alot to be desired. Much of it from the actual script that left her underdeveloped and lacking any sort of characterization outside of being a scared MacGuffin. But there were moments acting-wise, that's lets just say, were lackluster (her Defender scene, that faint, her 'memory' reaction, the 3rd act 'fight'). She'll certainly grow and develop, but it serves to showcase that actors need experience to attain skill in their craft and compelling child actors are more exception than the rule.

Yeah, it's wild but at this point the reincarnation actually seems very likely. Honestly I'm not sure how I want them to go about them tbh. The more I think about it, the less I want them to age up by just... using their aging up power that they did in WandaVision. If you think about it they were only about one week old in the end of WandaVision but were already 10, which means they kinda lost 10 years of their lives. I remember that someone from WandaVision said they didn't age them more because they already felt like Wanda already lost most of their childhood, and I agree.

So for a while my ideal scenario would be for them to be in some other dimension or whatever where time passes differently and they really spent like 5+ years there. I guess that since the reincarnation from the comics actually goes back to the past (which I feel would be super noticeably awkward in the MCU in a way that it wasn't in the comics though), that would work too. Before WandaVision started airing, I thought time would pass differently in the hex and all the decades of sitcoms would actually feel like a decade to them, so if anything Billy and Tommy aging with the decades instead of normally would make them live more rather than less.

About America, I think the reality is that they wanted to have this plot about Strange having a kid "sidekick" to care for, and they chose America because her powers fit perfectly for the multiversal theme. Ever since the casting call leaked and they were looking for a 12-16 year old or something, I knew they were gonna make America much more of a child than she ever was in the comics.

[Ibara]

Yeah, it's wild but at this point the reincarnation actually seems very likely. Honestly I'm not sure how I want them to go about them tbh. The more I think about it, the less I want them to age up by just... using their aging up power that they did in WandaVision. If you think about it they were only about one week old in the end of WandaVision but were already 10, which means they kinda lost 10 years of their lives. I remember that someone from WandaVision said they didn't age them more because they already felt like Wanda already lost most of their childhood, and I agree.

So for a while my ideal scenario would be for them to be in some other dimension or whatever where time passes differently and they really spent like 5+ years there. I guess that since the reincarnation from the comics actually goes back to the past (which I feel would be super noticeably awkward in the MCU in a way that it wasn't in the comics though), that would work too. Before WandaVision started airing, I thought time would pass differently in the hex and all the decades of sitcoms would actually feel like a decade to them, so if anything Billy and Tommy aging with the decades instead of normally would make them live more rather than less.

About America, I think the reality is that they wanted to have this plot about Strange having a kid "sidekick" to care for, and they chose America because her powers fit perfectly for the multiversal theme. Ever since the casting call leaked and they were looking for a 12-16 year old or something, I knew they were gonna make America much more of a child than she ever was in the comics.

We had the same line of thinking. I thought WV would have some accelerated time mechanics and a catalogue of "episodes" they would watch from the outside to solve the mystery. The thing with an alt-reality Billy/Tommy is that it sort of undercuts the narrative consequences of MoM. If in reality she could have found twins that lost their mother in a different universe, then it just compounds the issues I had MoM even further. Imagine Stephen saying, "we can train America, it will literally take me 30 seconds to motivate her into understanding how to use her powers, and we can find a universe where your boys are orphans!"

Maybe I'm just biased toward their comic origins, but I honestly have no issue with retroreincarnation. It allows them to have full lives (living 16+ years with other families), still connects them to the 616, and explains why everyone thinks they didn't exist. "Our souls were sent into the past and were reincarnated." People will get it or not, it's not like we have a firm understanding of how Thor fits in with magic, science, mythology, et al. We accept that he is millenia years old and is as knowledgable and wise as he is, Cap survived on ice for decades, Tony has nanotech and the rest of the world is just the way it is, multiple people have been empowered by primordial aspects of the universe in rock form, etc. There's a level of suspension of disbelief we impart these super movies and just mosey along with character centered stories with powers.

Definitely agree about America, she was another swing at a Peter/mentor dynamic, but was so underdeveloped that I largely just feel sorry for Xochi. She hasn't had the opportunity to really play America yet, hopefully in future showings they allow her to display the character she signed up for.