Young Avengers Appreciation 2022

[gonnagiveittoya]

Well Agatha is a sequel series to the show Billy was introduced in.

[Drops Of Venus]

Well Agatha is a sequel series to the show Billy was introduced in.

Yes, but my point is: does it seem like that casting call is referring to the same character we met on WandaVision? 'Cause to me it would seem hella weird if someone who was 10 years old until not long ago suddenly had a whole academic and romantic life next time we see them. I recall that Matt Shakman even said that the reason why they ended up keeping Billy and Tommy as kids on WandaVision was because they felt it wouldn't be good for Wanda to miss out on so much of their lives. Bringing Billy Maximoff back and speedrunning through his entire adolescence until adulthood would be doing exactly that, because Wanda ain't around to raise those kids anymore. So I have to wonder if at one point they just realized it was better if they introduced a new character. The source material already gave them an option as to how that could be done.

[Journey]

I mean either way it's the same person. But personally I kinda liked that little dialog from that grown "Tommy" "audition" from a couple months back where it was clear it was indeed the Twins from WandaVision & that they even recognized eachother I would much rather they just keep that the Reincarnation BS is so exhausting why do all that when you can just say the Twins never died like lil Billy could read minds he read Wanda's realized what was about to happen fucked up with his powers got him & Tommy separated & adopted by other people maybe even mind wiped like that's better to me.

[ComicNoobie]

I just got to read the latest Ant-Man anniversary issue with Scott and Cassie in it. My thoughts on Cassie/Stinger's role in it?

spoilers:

It turns out Scott's not the only disrespected Lang the Avengers sort of pick on, but Cassie as well. She's surprised to hear Iron Man call her a Avenger, even though she was on the Mighty Avengers team roster before in addition to being a Young Avenger. But yeah both Lang's aren't taken seriously and Thor scoffs at her being a child not suited to handle this Pym/Ultron business. I'll remember that when Kamala Khan and Miles Morales pal around with the Avengers, or when Thor trains a kid to prepare for the Phoenix Force lol. Still, Cassie got a decent showing against Eric O'Grady 2.0/Black Ant. Unfortunately they don't reference the bad blood she shared with the original O'Grady but she at least got to grow showing that Stinger isn't just a Wasp clone. This gives me much more hope in the MCU that she'll use both powers too. She even suggest they form a Ant-Vengers team. And honestly if the Young Avengers don't get their Volume 3 (and they have more then earned a volume 3), I'd be down for Ant-Vengers with O'Grady as their nemesis.

end of spoilers Those are my thoughts, the Ant-Man mini series has been pretty good overall.

[Frontier]

I just got to read the latest Ant-Man anniversary issue with Scott and Cassie in it. My thoughts on Cassie/Stinger's role in it?

spoilers:

It turns out Scott's not the only disrespected Lang the Avengers sort of pick on, but Cassie as well. She's surprised to hear Iron Man call her a Avenger, even though she was on the Mighty Avengers team roster before in addition to being a Young Avenger. But yeah both Lang's aren't taken seriously and Thor scoffs at her being a child not suited to handle this Pym/Ultron business. I'll remember that when Kamala Khan and Miles Morales pal around with the Avengers, or when Thor trains a kid to prepare for the Phoenix Force lol. Still, Cassie got a decent showing against Eric O'Grady 2.0/Black Ant. Unfortunately they don't reference the bad blood she shared with the original O'Grady but she at least got to grow showing that Stinger isn't just a Wasp clone. This gives me much more hope in the MCU that she'll use both powers too. She even suggest they form a Ant-Vengers team. And honestly if the Young Avengers don't get their Volume 3 (and they have more then earned a volume 3), I'd be down for Ant-Vengers with O'Grady as their nemesis.

end of spoilers Those are my thoughts, the Ant-Man mini series has been pretty good overall.

That seems OOC for Thor. Although maybe he's just saying that because he wasn't around when she was most active.

[ComicNoobie]

That seems OOC for Thor. Although maybe he's just saying that because he wasn't around when she was most active.

True, I only remember them meeting one time when she was a Young Avenger at the Avengers Mansion. They might have been on panel together for events like Secret Invasion and Siege if those action scenes count lol. It's confusing how the Lang family has become the butt of jokes for the Avengers.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Yes, but my point is: does it seem like that casting call is referring to the same character we met on WandaVision? 'Cause to me it would seem hella weird if someone who was 10 years old until not long ago suddenly had a whole academic and romantic life next time we see them. I recall that Matt Shakman even said that the reason why they ended up keeping Billy and Tommy as kids on WandaVision was because they felt it wouldn't be good for Wanda to miss out on so much of their lives. Bringing Billy Maximoff back and speedrunning through his entire adolescence until adulthood would be doing exactly that, because Wanda ain't around to raise those kids anymore. So I have to wonder if at one point they just realized it was better if they introduced a new character. The source material already gave them an option as to how that could be done.

Well the other Billy wasn't real. So this Billy is one from the multiverse, so it stands to reason he won't be exactly the same as the one in WandaVision

[Chris0013]

True, I only remember them meeting one time when she was a Young Avenger at the Avengers Mansion. They might have been on panel together for events like Secret Invasion and Siege if those action scenes count lol. It's confusing how the Lang family has become the butt of jokes for the Avengers.

I've talked about this before. Since Scott (and Clint) came back after their deaths in Avengers: Disassembled they have been crapped on by everyone.

[Drops Of Venus]

I mean either way it's the same person. But personally I kinda liked that little dialog from that grown "Tommy" "audition" from a couple months back where it was clear it was indeed the Twins from WandaVision & that they even recognized eachother I would much rather they just keep that the Reincarnation BS is so exhausting why do all that when you can just say the Twins never died like lil Billy could read minds he read Wanda's realized what was about to happen fucked up with his powers got him & Tommy separated & adopted by other people maybe even mind wiped like that's better to me.

I mean, to each their own, but I personally don't think Billy Kaplan and Billy Maximoff are the same person. Soul incarnation aside, I think upbringing is what makes a person. Bringing back the twins that Wanda actually carried inside of her, gave birth to and raised is different from introducing someone who was born and raised into a completely different family. They'd always have a connection, but they will never truly be those same kids she lost.

About the alleged Tommy audition... yeah, I used to think of that as evidence as to why they would just bring the Minimoffs back and just age them up, but I'm not sure if that audition ever really went anywhere. We never could get a confirmation that it was indeed for Marvel, and knowing what we know about the auditions for Agatha now, it would seem weird to be casting Tommy a whole year before Billy if it was supposed to be for the same production. The fact that we haven't gotten a casting call for Tommy and insiders only seem to be hinting at Billy and Teddy also makes me wonder if Tommy even is on the show at all, which would be another reason for me to believe this is not Billy Maximoff. If they were doing a sequel to the life of those twins on WandaVision, why completely exclude one of them? Giving Billy Maximoff a boyfriend instead of exploring what happened to his brother seems like a weird order of priority. I'm willing to change my mind if we get additional information about the show that gives us more context, but so far, that's what I'm thinking.

spoilers:

She even suggest they form a Ant-Vengers team. And honestly if the Young Avengers don't get their Volume 3 (and they have more then earned a volume 3), I'd be down for Ant-Vengers with O'Grady as their nemesis.

end of spoilers Those are my thoughts, the Ant-Man mini series has been pretty good overall.

I've always thought an Ant-Family (which they could call Ant-Fam, 'cause it sounds a lot like Ant Farm... get it?) would be cool. None of those characters seem to be given an ongoing of their own these days, so you might as well throw them together in a team and see if it works.

Well the other Billy wasn't real. So this Billy is one from the multiverse, so it stands to reason he won't be exactly the same as the one in WandaVision

Again, I don't think it makes any sense to introduce a multiversal Billy like this. If he was a Billy from another universe, then I would expect his role to be similar to America's; someone who ends up running into the people of the 616 universe while being on a mission of his own. He would probably be looking for his family or something. Part of the reason why we had to accept the lack of recognition of America's sexuality is precisely because her story in Multiverse Of Madness wasn't really about that, but a multiversal Billy coming from another universe would suddenly be having a school boyfriend on another Earth in a show about Agatha Harkness? It doesn't add up. I don't think anything about those casting calls make it seem like they are referring to Billy Maximoff.

Also, let me just say, bringing back Wanda's children from across the multiverse would make Multiverse Of Madness seem like a completely useless film. Why would they put Wanda through all of that for multiversal kids, make her realize in the end she had to let them go because she couldn't just replace them with somebody else's kids, only to give her exactly what she was looking for later on? All that character assassination for nothing? Some things should stay permanent.

[Journey]

I mean as it stands MOM is already a pretty pointless film for Wanda her character arc ends the way it began her alone.

[Drops Of Venus]

I mean as it stands MOM is already a pretty pointless film for Wanda her character arc ends the way it began her alone.

Ok, but the point still stands: the message of the movie is that she was the villain. She wasn't entitled to just hop to another universe and take kids that weren't hers. Her accepting that was the turning point for what I'm assuming will be her future redemption. Doing all that only to give her multiversal kids in her next appearance just feels like regressive storytelling. If you knew this would always be the outcome, then why even bother to do a whole film where you are portraying her in the wrong for wanting just that? It would feel like rewarding her for her bad behavior.

[gurkle]

Given how little Feige cares about making creators respect each other's continuity, I doubt the creators of WandaVision/House of Harkness will care much about contradicting Multiverse of Madness. If they go to Feige with a story that calls for Wanda getting what she was looking for in MoM, Feige might or might not approve it but it won't be because she's rewarded for her behavior in MoM.

I've already been through the stage of "surely they wouldn't be stupid enough to do a whole movie about her killing to get the kids she willingly gave up," and it turned out even worse (she just wanted copies of the kids). Creators never coordinate.

All that said, I doubt the House of Harkness version will have anything to do with the Multiverse, because WandaVision had nothing to do with the Multiverse and more importantly, in WandaVision, the kids were unambiguously portrayed as real; the fact that MoM ignored this won't really matter now that the ball has been passed back to Jac Schaeffer and she's making a sequel to her show.

How they explain it, I don't know; I'm guessing something close to Young Avengers' reincarnation thing. Whether it's the exact same kid aged up, or his soul went back in time when Wanda removed the Hex... I have no idea how they'll explain something that made no sense in the comics. But I would guess Schaeffer has her own ideas about what happened to the children after they disappeared.

[ComicNoobie]

I've always thought an Ant-Family (which they could call Ant-Fam, 'cause it sounds a lot like Ant Farm... get it?) would be cool. None of those characters seem to be given an ongoing of their own these days, so you might as well throw them together in a team and see if it works.

Ant-Fam! I like it! Their base should be an actual Ant Farm. While I'm hoping for Young Avengers volume 3 above all, if it doesn't happen then bring on the Ant-Vengers. Like you said, none of these guys have a ongoing and their appearances are quite rare too. I feel like much hinges on Quantumania for them to get more attention.

As for all the talk about Billy Maximoff vs Billy Kaplan, regardless which one we see I want to see Billy retain his fanboy personality. It was always a highlight for me. In fact I kind of hope Billy has a gimmick like Fishlegs from the "How to Train Your Dragon" series, where he knows all the "fictional" stats of both heroes and villains and speaks them out, like the most sturdy Iron Man armor or how much Hulk can lift at different stages of his anger. Most of all I want Billy to see show interest in Asgard stuff since he entered the series as a Asgardian.

[Ibara]

I don't really see it as a reward that Wanda 'misses out' on the lives of her children. If anything it adds a layer of tragedy. Her descent in actuality was pointless, MoM only served as a vehicle to destroy the Darkhold. It'd mirror the same convoluted mess that we have in the comics, and I'm personally fine with that. She watches from a distance as her children, now grown, have lived their lives without her; in Billy's case within a loving household and Tommy seemingly abandoned without her there to protect him.

I'd like to see some of these things to be picked up on in Wanda's upcoming solo. Evolve the relationship between Wanda and her sons. In particular I'm interested in seeing her bonding with Tommy and being that maternal-figure he needs.

And while I'd like to see Billy and Teddy introduced in House of Harkness, I'm fully prepared to see some randos in Tyler and Patrick.

[Sutekh]

I've talked about this before. Since Scott (and Clint) came back after their deaths in Avengers: Disassembled they have been crapped on by everyone.

This is something that happens to several heroes. Hank, infamously, gets crapped on by his fellow founders Tony and Thor, Scott Lang, Hawkeye and most recently the Black Knight.

Now, granted, this current iteration of Thor is a bit of a knucklehead and doesn't seem to respect anyone, even himself (and Tony's always been self-absorbed, if not quite so egotistical and dismissive of others in the past), so the fact that Thor's being an ass to Cassie just sort of follows along with his characterization for the last five years or so.

I kind of want to see him lip off to someone like Sersi, who'll turn him into a Frog of Thunder and his hammer into a whiff of magic smoke. Not since Odin kicked his butt out of Asgard for being a butthead has he so badly needed a smack upside the head.

Cassie, like all size-changers, should be an absolute badass. Because, physics. The square-cube law states that when height doubles, weight octuples. So if Cassie grows to double her size, her weight has to go up by a factor of eight. And if she goes up to ten times size, 50-60 feet in height, which we've seen her do, her weight increases *a thousandfold.* If her bones and flesh remained only as (proportionally)strong and tough as they are when she's normal size, the bones would shatter explosively under the weight, and her muscles slough off of them as her body collapses into a pile of gore, dying horribly in seconds.

Obviously this doesn't happen when Cassie (or Hank, or Erik, or Bill) grows to giant size, which means whatever extra mass they are adding is strong enough and tough enough to support that extra weight, which means that, at 10x size, a size we've seen her at before, she *should* be as strong and tough as old Marvel Handbook-era Hercules or Namor or Thor, able to lift close to 100 tons, and with bones tougher than any substance on earth (other than fantasy stuff like adamantium), and muscles and sinews and skin at least as durable as battleship steel.

So, again, badass. 'Cause, science.