Young Avengers Appreciation 2022

[gonnagiveittoya]

Because apparently people were still wondering despite a Love is Love stitching on her jacket, and a pride pin not only in the trailers but on most of her merch, the Doctor Strange movie is confirmed to reference America being a lesbian.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...e-2-1235126888

It also confirms that she would have been in No Way Home before Doctor Strange wound up coming after it.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Because apparently people were still wondering despite a Love is Love stitching on her jacket, and a pride pin not only in the trailers but on most of her merch, the Doctor Strange movie is confirmed to reference America being a lesbian.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/mo...e-2-1235126888

It also confirms that she would have been in No Way Home before Doctor Strange wound up coming after it.

Your linked article seems to be about a totally different topic.

And on that linked article...IDK how I feel. Sure, Casey and Dragotta "created" MAC, but they gave her the bare-minimum in personality and back-story...probably less than the bare-minimum...such that when Gillen took over the character, he essentially had a clean-slate, and the only substantial reference he used was her previous relationship with the Ultimate Nullifier...because that's about all he had to work with. I'm all for giving creators some sort of compensation, but not some life-long compensation for every time the character is used, when the creator(s) gave such a...basic character. Although I'm sure there's not a fair way to create any sort of metric to keep a consistent standard. In-short: Gillen/McKelvie "created" MAC, IMO, more than Casey/Dragotta did.

[gonnagiveittoya]

It's mentioned in the first paragraph of the article.

[Drops Of Venus]

Look I love Eli that's my boy & I look at the MCU as a chance to revamp his whole character that being said in the comics he was a **** leader got Cassie killed, & under Kate's leadership the team significantly seemed to thrive a lot more healthier. That being said MCU wise I'm all for them clashing to be leader & may the best prevail.

Wasn't Kate literally the team leader during Children's Crusade? Like, yeah, Eli was the one who messed up big time in the end, but I seem to recall Kate having a line about feeling responsible for what happened because it was under her leadership.

Anyway, I'm not too sure MCU Young Avengers would even have a leader. They never bothered to label an official leader for the Avengers, so I don't know if they would bother with the YA.

Your linked article seems to be about a totally different topic.

And on that linked article...IDK how I feel. Sure, Casey and Dragotta "created" MAC, but they gave her the bare-minimum in personality and back-story...probably less than the bare-minimum...such that when Gillen took over the character, he essentially had a clean-slate, and the only substantial reference he used was her previous relationship with the Ultimate Nullifier...because that's about all he had to work with. I'm all for giving creators some sort of compensation, but not some life-long compensation for every time the character is used, when the creator(s) gave such a...basic character. Although I'm sure there's not a fair way to create any sort of metric to keep a consistent standard. In-short: Gillen/McKelvie "created" MAC, IMO, more than Casey/Dragotta did.

Agreed. This feels like Joe Casey jumping on the bandwagon of legitimate criticism and wanting a reward for something he didn't fully earn. I doubt there would be any America Chavez in this movie at all without Gillen and everything that came after. The multiverse powers? Gillen's idea. Her design? Based on McKelvie's art. Her sexuality and other-wordly backstory? Also from Young Avengers. We don't know about her personality yet, but very likely inspired by YA too. Like, if we put everything on the balance.... Casey's contribution to the America Chavez we know today was minimal.

And that's not even getting into the fact that this is the guy who created a whole parody of MAC in another publisher just to **** on current MAC. Like, he literally made America Vasquez punch America Chavez in the face on his original comic. For someone who resents what MAC became so much, he sure as hell is changing his tune now that the character is going mainstream. I get this complaint coming from a lot of other creators... but I do not feel sorry for this guy.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

It's mentioned in the first paragraph of the article.

Ah. I missed that one line. My apologies.

[Journey]

America's infinity comic cameout today the Team Cameos they double down on the retcon it still makes no sense they don't address the grandma or any of that **** that happened in her 1st solo at all but they do address the Ex she had in that solo so I guess America is just insane & on drugs her mini college experience was all a fever dream, 1 thing I didn't like is in her recap of what she originally thought the Utopian Parallel was she claims the Demiurge (Billy) was trying to destroy the Multiverse the story is all over the fucking place at this point.

[Digifiend]

Scarlet Witch has one too, and of course Wiccan, Speed, and Hulkling all cameo there as well.

The Demiurge thing was false memories, remember. None of that Utopian Parallel stuff ever happened. And good point, the America series wasn't mentioned at all, so it does appear to have been retconned. It covered everything else, all of her teams (even A-Force, which she shouldn't even remember as that was in Secret Wars), and her last mini with the new origin.

[Krakoa]

Scarlet Witch has one too, and of course Wiccan, Speed, and Hulkling all cameo there as well.

The Demiurge thing was false memories, remember. None of that Utopian Parallel stuff ever happened. And good point, the America series wasn't mentioned at all, so it does appear to have been retconned. It covered everything else, all of her teams (even A-Force, which she shouldn't even remember as that was in Secret Wars), and her last mini with the new origin.

that retcon literally makes Gillen and McKelvie's YA incomprehensible. America had false memories that just so happened to be incredibly accurate about the Demiurge? What about her parents that were fought in the series?

[mreddie]

I'm confused, so America's first origin is just a dream now?

UGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

Calling it, they will undo this once they see America in the MCU is just the Gillien adaptation.

[Journey]

Scarlet Witch has one too, and of course Wiccan, Speed, and Hulkling all cameo there as well.

The Demiurge thing was false memories, remember. None of that Utopian Parallel stuff ever happened. And good point, the America series wasn't mentioned at all, so it does appear to have been retconned. It covered everything else, all of her teams (even A-Force, which she shouldn't even remember as that was in Secret Wars), and her last mini with the new origin.

I get that's what their going for but it makes no sense not only does Volume 2 directly contradict what America claims we saw her parents superpowers & all, but Billy being the Demiurge is still a thing recently doubled down by Doromamu so like why is her story so wrong yet so accurate IDK it's just dumb! Even the 2nd solo theirs a picture of the Grandma so all the **** happened but were just supposed to ignore that for stupid ass Catalina!?

[Drops Of Venus]

The crumbs from the Infinity Comics:

America's infinity comic cameout today the Team Cameos they double down on the retcon it still makes no sense they don't address the grandma or any of that **** that happened in her 1st solo at all but they do address the Ex she had in that solo so I guess America is just insane & on drugs her mini college experience was all a fever dream, 1 thing I didn't like is in her recap of what she originally thought the Utopian Parallel was she claims the Demiurge (Billy) was trying to destroy the Multiverse the story is all over the fucking place at this point.

What even....? We need Gillen back because at this point I don't trust anyone else to handle America and the Demiurge lore. Except for Ewing, of course.

that retcon literally makes Gillen and McKelvie's YA incomprehensible. America had false memories that just so happened to be incredibly accurate about the Demiurge? What about her parents that were fought in the series?

Not incomprehensible, just... kinda pointless. She had a motivation, it just so happened that this motivation was something she convinced herself was true as a coping mechanism when it wasn't. I guess her mothers in the book were just a figment of what she believed her mothers to be at the time, which is why they manifested as super-heroes. And as to how she knew so much about the Demiurge if he never actually created her... my guess is that the energy that was used to experiment on her (which was implied to be magic in nature) was indeed a portion of the Demiurge's power, which was harnessed by that evil scientist guy somehow. So maybe being powered by the Demiurge's magic artificially somehow gave her the subconscious knowledge about him, which she then used to create the rest of the story in her head.

Most of that is just my headcanon, of course... but it's what I tell myself so I won't go insane thinking about the mess they made out of MAC. lol

Calling it, they will undo this once they see America in the MCU is just the Gillien adaptation.

I'm actually not too confident they will, honestly. They didn't change Captain Marvel's origins back once her movie came out, for instance. And the retcon in the comics was very likely done so she could be ethnically latina, so they do have a valid reason to keep it.

I think MCU America will be like Gillen in the sense that she comes from another world with super moms and stuff, but I think the MCU will simplify it by making the Utopian Parallel be just another Earth, therefore making her a human latina girl, instead of the extra-dimensional aspect from the comics. It's probably what the comics should've done too, and maybe someday they will, but I think it's too early to undo the retcon right now when they are promoting her new backstory so much recently. They would just look stupid.

[Triniking1234]

They could've kept the Utopian origin and still make her a human Latina. The writer just didn't think it through.

[Frontier]

Looking at that illustration, Kate went from dark purple with hip holes...to purple purple with hip holes.

[Mutant_Lover]

Looking at that illustration, Kate went from dark purple with hip holes...to purple purple with hip holes.

And glasses!

[Drops Of Venus]

Looking at that illustration, Kate went from dark purple with hip holes...to purple purple with hip holes.

I'm usually a hip hole defender because I think it adds charm to her design, but this artist made it so weirdly big and cheesecakey that I kinda get why some people don't like it. lol