Young Avengers Appreciation 2022

[Fokken]

So it the demiurge thinkg good or bad? And in what series was it more elaborated on because its the one thing i dont know much about.

Good? Bad? That opinion seems to vary from person to person, and that's part of why Billy's afraid of it.
For some it means creation. Others suggest the opposite.



The Demiurge mythos connecting to Billy was established in Kieron Gillen and Jamie Mckelvie's Young Avengers run "Style>Substance".
Whilst dimension hopping, the Young Avengers came across a planet inhabited by little cuties who gave the first name drop.



Later in that run, America Chavez identified Billy as the Demiurge, her world's creator and her personal hero whom she would cosplay at a child, during a flashback montage at the celebratory dance party held when the young heroes defeated the big bad.



Al Ewing has been largely instrumental since, in continuing the Demiurge mythos and Billy's ties to the title, in various titles including his New Avengers run, where Billy was part of Roberto Dacosta's team (also the run where Teddy receives his sword and establishes the Knights Infinite). Billy's been identified as the Demiurge by other magical entities and characters like Dormamu and Doctor Doom, further cementing his destined role.

There was also a Doom specific story (I believe it was online exclusive?) where Doom mentions the Demiurge, and I have screen shots on my phone of the panels, but I don't know what the actual book / issue / story was. Anyone know?

The screenshot I took is Doom addressing Stark and he says: "The day is coming soon Stark. The day everything changes. The day of the Demiurge"
He goes on in another panel explaining: "Afterwards, magic was changed. The basic precepts altered. The unwritten rules I had spent a lifetime studying... re-written. My magic was gone."
The pics I took were back in June 2018.


I'm 90% certain it has to be an Al Ewing thing.

[Fokken]

Finally found one of the Doom panels online but... doesn't tell me the source of the panel sadly.

[Journey]

Also Dormammu confirmed Billy's Demiurge is in fact meant to be the same 1 who created the Elder God

[Fokken]

That would be nice, although I'm not sure how much Anthony would be allow to ''mess'' with that, since MAC's retcon, much like the usage of Eli, seems to be editorially mandated stuff.

The wacky thing about America Chavez and potentially "editing" her background stuff (again) is that she's now had 3(?) origin stories.
First, she's a multiversal renegade princess from a protected pocket dimension created by the Demiurge.
Then she's gets a retcon. [insert despondent stare here]
Then she gets another retcon suggesting her prior origin(s) were trauma induced fantasies intended to protect her vulnerable child psyche.

I mean, with the theme Anthony's Young Avenger story has so far and the involvement of the M'Krann crystal and space/time fracture/healing, I would personally appreciate if somehow someway the latest retcon were proven to be some bogus mind games or magic shenanigans intended to neuter our multiversal renegade princess by a nefarious force yet to be revealed.

If the expectation is to sweep away the first and second origin in favor of the third, well I see now reason to sweep another and give her a fourth. At this point, its comical. And if anyone can patch together the THREE origins into a functional quilt that makes sense while also maintaining the more fantastical elements, I believe in Anthony.

Will it happen?
Probably not. But I wish that one day it would.

[Digifiend]

CBR gives the comic a plug.
https://www.cbr.com/iron-lad-reuniti...engers-marvel/

[Journey]

The biggest problem with America's retcon is it doesn't address any of the BS from her 1st solo, like as trash as it was sis met the grandmother went back to the Utopian Parallel & all that BS we saw this happen, the lady took the time to acknowledge the grandmother in the latest retcon implying she does exist so to just say none of that happened is some BS was her entire college experience just some fever dream that hell even David was having?

[Fokken]

The biggest problem with America's retcon is it doesn't address any of the BS from her 1st solo, like as trash as it was sis met the grandmother went back to the Utopian Parallel & all that BS we saw this happen, the lady took the time to acknowledge the grandmother in the latest retcon implying she does exist so to just say none of that happened is some BS was her entire college experience just some fever dream that hell even David was having?

Some fever dream.
Yes please.

Personally I would have accepted Loki fucking around with America via magic, like he did to Billy when he was sleeping in Kieron's run.

[Drops Of Venus]

I will probably only get to watch Thor 4 this weekend, but I'm seeing some people talking about the Young Avengers in relation to the movie and I have to wonder: is there any actual basis for this or is it just another case of regulars thinking any young person is a member of the team? I would appreciate an answer with the least amount of spoilers as possible, thanks. lol

There was also a Doom specific story (I believe it was online exclusive?) where Doom mentions the Demiurge, and I have screen shots on my phone of the panels, but I don't know what the actual book / issue / story was. Anyone know?

The screenshot I took is Doom addressing Stark and he says: "The day is coming soon Stark. The day everything changes. The day of the Demiurge"
He goes on in another panel explaining: "Afterwards, magic was changed. The basic precepts altered. The unwritten rules I had spent a lifetime studying... re-written. My magic was gone."
The pics I took were back in June 2018.


I'm 90% certain it has to be an Al Ewing thing.

This book is called Iron Man: Fatal Frontier (Infinite Comic), and the panel you posted is from issue #9. And yes, it was absolutely written by our continuity king Al Ewing.

The wacky thing about America Chavez and potentially "editing" her background stuff (again) is that she's now had 3(?) origin stories.
First, she's a multiversal renegade princess from a protected pocket dimension created by the Demiurge.
Then she's gets a retcon. [insert despondent stare here]
Then she gets another retcon suggesting her prior origin(s) were trauma induced fantasies intended to protect her vulnerable child psyche.

I mean, with the theme Anthony's Young Avenger story has so far and the involvement of the M'Krann crystal and space/time fracture/healing, I would personally appreciate if somehow someway the latest retcon were proven to be some bogus mind games or magic shenanigans intended to neuter our multiversal renegade princess by a nefarious force yet to be revealed.

If the expectation is to sweep away the first and second origin in favor of the third, well I see now reason to sweep another and give her a fourth. At this point, its comical. And if anyone can patch together the THREE origins into a functional quilt that makes sense while also maintaining the more fantastical elements, I believe in Anthony.

Will it happen?
Probably not. But I wish that one day it would.

If I had my way, this is what I would do to America, to explain her weird ass backstory: she starts having dreams and visions about different lives and origins, which is why she knows about the Utopian Parallel. The thing is: all those other lives she lived, they weren't fake. They were all the lives and origins of different versions of herself scattered across the multiverse. As it turns out, America's connection to the multiverse goes way beyond just her being able to create portals: she literally has a spiritual/mystical connection to all of her alternative selves, to the point that she can experience some of their feelings, thoughts, memories, etc. She is quite literally a multiversal being. So yes, she knew about the UP because it was real for one version of her. She also knew about her sister Catalina because that was also real for another version of her. Same goes for her gradma Madrimar and the Fuertonas stuff. And because of the nature of her powers, she felt like those lives were hers too. But what is the origin of THIS America that we know? She had to start somewhere, right? That is the one thing that I would probably leave open. We wouldn't know. This way, people can headcanon whatever they want, and you wouldn't need to erase any of her different origins. Boom. Problem solved.

[Galerion]

I will probably only get to watch Thor 4 this weekend, but I'm seeing some people talking about the Young Avengers in relation to the movie and I have to wonder: is there any actual basis for this or is it just another case of regulars thinking any young person is a member of the team? I would appreciate an answer with the least amount of spoilers as possible, thanks. lol

spoilers:

There is a new character introduced into the movie but it's a little kid and not even remotely a teen so I would say no basis at all.

end of spoilers

[Drops Of Venus]

spoilers:

There is a new character introduced into the movie but it's a little kid and not even remotely a teen so I would say no basis at all.

end of spoilers

Thanks. I saw like multiple people on Twitter saying ''oh, they're setting up the Young Avengers'' in reaction to the movie and ''young avengers thor'' was the first suggestion when I typed the name of the team on the search bar, so I thought something more relevant could've happened, but I'm not surprised it was just people unfamiliar with the comics talking out of their ass. lol

[Digifiend]

spoilers:

There is a new character introduced into the movie but it's a little kid and not even remotely a teen so I would say no basis at all.

end of spoilers

Yeah. spoilers:

The girl is called Love, and is played by Chris Hemsworth's own daughter. She'll probably only appear whenever Thor does. Definitely not going to be a Young Avenger.

end of spoilers

[Sutekh]

If I had my way, this is what I would do to America, to explain her weird ass backstory: she starts having dreams and visions about different lives and origins, which is why she knows about the Utopian Parallel. The thing is: all those other lives she lived, they weren't fake. They were all the lives and origins of different versions of herself scattered across the multiverse. As it turns out, America's connection to the multiverse goes way beyond just her being able to create portals: she literally has a spiritual/mystical connection to all of her alternative selves, to the point that she can experience some of their feelings, thoughts, memories, etc. She is quite literally a multiversal being.

That's exactly my ideal solution. She has multiple conflicting backstories? They're *all* true.

[Factor]

Yeah. spoilers:

The girl is called Love, and is played by Chris Hemsworth's own daughter. She'll probably only appear whenever Thor does. Definitely not going to be a Young Avenger.

end of spoilers

Well, they did introduce spoilers:

Heimdall’s son

end of spoilers. I wouldn’t be shocked to see either of them crossing paths with the YA in the future.
I wouldn’t want it, especially because I hated the first character, but I wouldn’t put it past them.

[Fokken]

delete post

[Drops Of Venus]

After watching the movie, yeah, no thanks, no kids in the Young Avengers. We're already fighting for them to not mess up Wiccan and Speed, the last thing we need is more incentive for the MCU to act like YA is some Avengers daycare.