Young Avengers Appreciation 2022

[Drops Of Venus]

While I agree it is unlikely to be Prodigy, I wouldn't rule anything out based on the ethnicity of the actors. There have been plenty of examples of characters who had the racial background, their gender, their age, etc, altered for the live-action version (sometimes deliberately, sometimes because they decided to just leave the audition open to any ethnicity and just hired whomever they liked best).

I'm well aware racebending happens often, but in 2022, it's very unlikely to happen with black characters in a Marvel Studios production because there is a much bigger backlash when a black identity is erased compared to when a white identity is erased. I really don't think they would be casting a character like Prodigy and using the vague ''open to all ethnicities'' casting description when they specified they wanted a white actor for the other role.

[Mont]

From my own experience following leaks/scoops, I actually think casting call leaks tend to be the more reliable ones, and when one doesn't end up being fulfilled is not always a case of it being made up, but simply of plans changing. I believe this is exactly what happened to the Hulkling casting call from early 2020, just shortly before the pandemic kinda screwed everything up.

I also think it's strangely coincidental that out of the two times we've heard of a potential Teddy casting call in the MCU, it's been on shows with the same production team and featuring similar characters. Maybe that's just me being too optimistic, but I just feel like it's more likely that this means Marvel is getting to do something that was already planned as opposed to someone playing an elaborate prank on us for two years now.

And yes, we did discuss those calls before, but since more people are reporting it now, it's becoming a bigger topic, with new information coming in. Case in point: MTTSH getting involved to say it's not true. lol

I had this exact thought, thinking back about the Hulkling stuff with WandaVision. They even had a few filming locations that were high schools (eventually used for various exterior shots), and it almost makes me wonder if at one point they were ever considering an older Billy/Teddy in early WandaVision drafts. Unfortunately, I don't think any press ever asked writers for that show on the record about Wiccan or Hulkling in really any capacity that I could find. Either way, I'm just overjoyed it looks like we might be getting them now.

Your analysis thus far in this thread has been spot-on. If those casting grids are legitimate, I think it a has to be them (the word "fanboy" in particular screams it being Billy to me, I mean on top of the gayness and other traits. "Fanboy" is what Billy self identifies to the Scarlet Witch as in his head in Children's Crusade, and what he is often referred to outside the text as well).

[ComicNoobie]

Don't mind me, I'm just here to drop some new things I learned from the Young Avengers Omnibus as I went over it. It's probably super old news, but I had no idea that one of the potential codenames for Cassie was "Titan" the size-changing Titan! Cassie could have been Titan! Think of all the Titan jokes they could have done. When she's enraged they could have called her a "mad titan" which would make Thanos attack her with a lawsuit lol. This is so juicy! Personally I find Titan or Gi-Ant-Girl cooler names then Stature. While Stature is a cooler identity to Stinger, the only thing I felt held it back from 100% perfection was the name "Stature" it's grown on me over the years but come on, Gi-Ant-Girl is perfect for Cassie!

[Sutekh]

Don't mind me, I'm just here to drop some new things I learned from the Young Avengers Omnibus as I went over it. It's probably super old news, but I had no idea that one of the potential codenames for Cassie was "Titan" the size-changing Titan! Cassie could have been Titan! Think of all the Titan jokes they could have done. When she's enraged they could have called her a "mad titan" which would make Thanos attack her with a lawsuit lol. This is so juicy! Personally I find Titan or Gi-Ant-Girl cooler names then Stature. While Stature is a cooler identity to Stinger, the only thing I felt held it back from 100% perfection was the name "Stature" it's grown on me over the years but come on, Gi-Ant-Girl is perfect for Cassie!

I don't love the sound of the name, but I like that it's a decent name for both a growth-based or shrinking-based character, not kind of specified in one direction like 'Ant-Man' or 'Giant-Man.'

And it beats the hell out of Size Queen. (Which would totally be her villain name.)

[Drops Of Venus]

Don't mind me, I'm just here to drop some new things I learned from the Young Avengers Omnibus as I went over it. It's probably super old news, but I had no idea that one of the potential codenames for Cassie was "Titan" the size-changing Titan! Cassie could have been Titan! Think of all the Titan jokes they could have done. When she's enraged they could have called her a "mad titan" which would make Thanos attack her with a lawsuit lol. This is so juicy! Personally I find Titan or Gi-Ant-Girl cooler names then Stature. While Stature is a cooler identity to Stinger, the only thing I felt held it back from 100% perfection was the name "Stature" it's grown on me over the years but come on, Gi-Ant-Girl is perfect for Cassie!

Yeah, I've talked about the plans Allan Heinberg had for new codenames for each character in a previous YA thread. Eli would be Sentinel, Cassie would be Titan and Teddy would be Chimera. Ultimately, Billy was the only one who changed his codename as intended. With the exception of Teddy not changing his name, I think I'm fine with how everything else turned out.

I think I like Stinger as a name for Cassie the best, since it brings her closer to the bug/insect inspired side of the Ant-family. The fact that she got a more diverse powerset under this identity also helps.

[gurkle]

For those who care about such things, the Omnibus -- as expected -- uses the revised dialogue that Allan Heinberg wrote for the trade collections. The differences from the original comics are very noticeable in "Children's Crusade," where he took the opportunity to cut down a lot of the more dialogue-heavy scenes and also make some adjustments to character (like adding Magneto telling the Young Avengers "when you lose someone you love, you'll do anything to get them back").

This isn't surprising since that's his preferred version, but while the original version of "Children's Crusade" is drowning in dialogue balloons, I think some of the cuts are not for the better, like changing Wiccan referring to himself as "a gay, Jewish Avengers fanboy who grew up on the Upper West Side" to just "a gay, Jewish fanboy." The longer version is funnier because it's so specific.

[Drops Of Venus]

For those who care about such things, the Omnibus -- as expected -- uses the revised dialogue that Allan Heinberg wrote for the trade collections. The differences from the original comics are very noticeable in "Children's Crusade," where he took the opportunity to cut down a lot of the more dialogue-heavy scenes and also make some adjustments to character (like adding Magneto telling the Young Avengers "when you lose someone you love, you'll do anything to get them back").

This isn't surprising since that's his preferred version, but while the original version of "Children's Crusade" is drowning in dialogue balloons, I think some of the cuts are not for the better, like changing Wiccan referring to himself as "a gay, Jewish Avengers fanboy who grew up on the Upper West Side" to just "a gay, Jewish fanboy." The longer version is funnier because it's so specific.

I knew there were minor rewrites for volume 1, but I never knew there was one for Children's Crusade as well. Probably because I only read it in english once and the trade I own is in another language. But anyway... the Upper West Side erasure irks me, 'cause yeah, the specificity of it is what made it such a Billy line.

I hope they don't change Billy being from NYC in the MCU, honestly. That is one thing that's been bothering me so far with MCU YA, because Cassie and Eli are so distant right now and I don't know how they're gonna make them all be a part of the same setting. It's not the same if they aren't friends from the same city. I don't want them to be like the Avengers who felt more like co-workers who got together whenever the world was in danger. I want them to actually feel like a part of the same community.

[ComicNoobie]

Yeah, I've talked about the plans Allan Heinberg had for new codenames for each character in a previous YA thread. Eli would be Sentinel, Cassie would be Titan and Teddy would be Chimera. Ultimately, Billy was the only one who changed his codename as intended. With the exception of Teddy not changing his name, I think I'm fine with how everything else turned out.

I think I like Stinger as a name for Cassie the best, since it brings her closer to the bug/insect inspired side of the Ant-family. The fact that she got a more diverse powerset under this identity also helps.

I've grown to like her as Stinger as well. The bug powers and flight gave her more as you said. I think the main thing that hurts her as Stinger is there are two other Wasp characters out there, one of which is for MCU synergy who gets used more then she does. As Stature she stood out more even when we still had Hank Pym as Yellowjacket around the same time. Stinger is cool but feels underutilized, unlike Stature who had numerous appearances in not only Young Avengers but Ms. Marvel, Mighty Avengers and so on. I do like her costume redesign by Dylan Burnett as it separates her from her MC2 counterpart.

[Digifiend]

Hopefully Quantumania will change that, since that film will actually have Cassie active as a superhero. Ant-Man and the Wasp did cause problems for Cassie as she was just a civilian there, and Hope became the Wasp, which led to Nadia's creation in the comics. And the timing was unfortunate too as Cassie became Stinger at about the same time as Nadia debuted. But now that they'll be working together in the MCU, maybe we'll see more of it in the comics. They've already been shown to be friends, maybe they should be partners like the Batgirls are currently?

[Journey]

Billy taking the time to flex he's from the Upper West Side a statistically very wealthy part of New York mind you yet people think it's weird when he's shown enjoying the perks & glam that comes along with Teddy's royalty is a very interesting thing.

[Journey]

I knew there were minor rewrites for volume 1, but I never knew there was one for Children's Crusade as well. Probably because I only read it in english once and the trade I own is in another language. But anyway... the Upper West Side erasure irks me, 'cause yeah, the specificity of it is what made it such a Billy line.

I hope they don't change Billy being from NYC in the MCU, honestly. That is one thing that's been bothering me so far with MCU YA, because Cassie and Eli are so distant right now and I don't know how they're gonna make them all be a part of the same setting. It's not the same if they aren't friends from the same city. I don't want them to be like the Avengers who felt more like co-workers who got together whenever the world was in danger. I want them to actually feel like a part of the same community.

I feel like the strenuous changes in age amongst the YA makes traditional friendship already somewhat impossible, I think Billy Tommy & Teddy will likely be closer to America in age , Cassie & Eli same age probably, then Kate & Noh Var same age

[Frontier]

Yeah, I've talked about the plans Allan Heinberg had for new codenames for each character in a previous YA thread. Eli would be Sentinel, Cassie would be Titan and Teddy would be Chimera. Ultimately, Billy was the only one who changed his codename as intended. With the exception of Teddy not changing his name, I think I'm fine with how everything else turned out.

I think I like Stinger as a name for Cassie the best, since it brings her closer to the bug/insect inspired side of the Ant-family. The fact that she got a more diverse powerset under this identity also helps.

I think your preference for Cassie's codename depends on your preference of her general powerset and look.

Like, for me, Stinger just feels too Wasp-derivative when we have enough of those already. Sure she has more stuff to do but it's also stuff that other characters can do including her dad or Nadia. And so she comes off more generic and teen sidekick-y.

Now we have a Giant-Man but we don't really have a girl who is known for growing Giant, hence Stature.

[Mont]

Rereading this omnibus inspired me to go back and listen to a lot of old Heinberg podcast interviews, and it is interesting to hear about him discuss his availability/schedule not working for monthly series. I do hope one day he is able to write something, perhaps a one shot that drops out of the blue with the Young Avengers again that can be more flexible with a release schedule (he did say if he ever writes for DC/Marvel again it would be something like that). Or the dream is that he would work on a YA show since that is becoming a possibility... he did just nail the Sandman, I have to imagine he would be high on Marvel's list to write/showrun such a project if it does end up happening, it would be such a huge missed opportunity to not have him create it. Although, we don't even know his thoughts on the Hawkeye show/Kate Bishop in the MCU, a character that he and Cheung created, since no media has bothered to ask him.

But if Heinberg is off the table for YA comics due to scheduling or a myriad of other reasons, who would you want to write a YA Vol 3 type thing? Do you all want a YA ongoing/Volume 3?

Personally, I think of the writers that aren't Heinberg, Oliveira's work for the YA in the Voices comic felt like the strongest to me and most authentic to the team. I would love to see Oliveira do more with them. I do like Gillen's Vol 2 for what it is worth and think it did a lot of really important stuff, and some of the narrative stuff it explores is very interesting, but to me it never really captured the way I felt about Vol 1 and I am not sure why (but Voices pretty much did, and the YA didn't even get to reunite for that!). I thought each of the Presents comics back in the day were pretty good, and a lot of the tie ins to events and stuff like the Runaways back then just felt somewhere between OK and good to me, so none of those authors stick out to me as ones I would particularly want to return to write them (but many of them I wouldn't be upset about either)

[ComicNoobie]

Hopefully Quantumania will change that, since that film will actually have Cassie active as a superhero. Ant-Man and the Wasp did cause problems for Cassie as she was just a civilian there, and Hope became the Wasp, which led to Nadia's creation in the comics. And the timing was unfortunate too as Cassie became Stinger at about the same time as Nadia debuted. But now that they'll be working together in the MCU, maybe we'll see more of it in the comics. They've already been shown to be friends, maybe they should be partners like the Batgirls are currently?

I hope so. Make Ant-Vengers a real thing lol. I hated the period where they made Cassie a helpless civilian and got her heart stolen by Darren Cross of all people. If not for the Ant-Man movie you'd have to google that name to even know who he was lol. That was a case of really bad MCU synergy. You never would have guessed she used to be a superhero in her own right.

I think your preference for Cassie's codename depends on your preference of her general powerset and look.

Like, for me, Stinger just feels too Wasp-derivative when we have enough of those already. Sure she has more stuff to do but it's also stuff that other characters can do including her dad or Nadia. And so she comes off more generic and teen sidekick-y.

Now we have a Giant-Man but we don't really have a girl who is known for growing Giant, hence Stature.

I hear you. I have grown to like her as Stinger, but she stood out so much more as Stature, pardon the pun. Thankfully she's starting to grow giant more as Stinger as well, getting back her Young Avenger roots.

Rereading this omnibus inspired me to go back and listen to a lot of old Heinberg podcast interviews, and it is interesting to hear about him discuss his availability/schedule not working for monthly series. I do hope one day he is able to write something, perhaps a one shot that drops out of the blue with the Young Avengers again that can be more flexible with a release schedule (he did say if he ever writes for DC/Marvel again it would be something like that). Or the dream is that he would work on a YA show since that is becoming a possibility... he did just nail the Sandman, I have to imagine he would be high on Marvel's list to write/showrun such a project if it does end up happening, it would be such a huge missed opportunity to not have him create it. Although, we don't even know his thoughts on the Hawkeye show/Kate Bishop in the MCU, a character that he and Cheung created, since no media has bothered to ask him.

But if Heinberg is off the table for YA comics due to scheduling or a myriad of other reasons, who would you want to write a YA Vol 3 type thing? Do you all want a YA ongoing/Volume 3?

Personally, I think of the writers that aren't Heinberg, Oliveira's work for the YA in the Voices comic felt like the strongest to me and most authentic to the team. I would love to see Oliveira do more with them. I do like Gillen's Vol 2 for what it is worth and think it did a lot of really important stuff, and some of the narrative stuff it explores is very interesting, but to me it never really captured the way I felt about Vol 1 and I am not sure why (but Voices pretty much did, and the YA didn't even get to reunite for that!). I thought each of the Presents comics back in the day were pretty good, and a lot of the tie ins to events and stuff like the Runaways back then just felt somewhere between OK and good to me, so none of those authors stick out to me as ones I would particularly want to return to write them (but many of them I wouldn't be upset about either)

Yes! I would love a Young Avengers volume 3! I've been aching for one ever since the Voices preview. I want a YA volume 3 run so badly, more then any other Marvel comic book. A full ongoing. And while it would be a dream to see Cheung and Heinberg return and do Young Avengers volume 3, If not them I would also like the authors who did the Young Avengers Presents as well as the authors of the Young Masters storyline during Dark Reign. I would love to see the Young Avengers get a proper reunion in a volume 3 and finally get a rouges gallery all of their own. They deserve to have their own rouges gallery and arch nemesis. The closest they have is the Young Masters and Mother. I would count Kang but he's a Marvel universe threat.

[Frontier]

I hope so. Make Ant-Vengers a real thing lol. I hated the period where they made Cassie a helpless civilian and got her heart stolen by Darren Cross of all people. If not for the Ant-Man movie you'd have to google that name to even know who he was lol. That was a case of really bad MCU synergy. You never would have guessed she used to be a superhero in her own right.

Yeah, one of the issues I had with Spencers' Ant-Man was how he wrote/handled Cassie. Either she was getting kidnapped or turned into a damsel in distress or she gets in over her head and only avoids jail time because her dad bails her out.