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  1. #1141
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    As grating as Anthony W's dismissal of Miles Morales's worth as a character and a Spider-Man is, he does raise a valid point about where Marvel editorial and execs' heads seem to be when it comes to how they treat Miles, which is a problem. Yeah, Peter Parker is always going to be the original and primary Spider-Man of the Marvel Universe, but considering Miles is the most prominent of the non-Peter Parker (clones like Ben Reilly included) Spider-Men at this point, it's still rather troubling that Marvel editors and execs seem to not care as much about building him up the same way they spent years if not decades doing for Peter. As pointed out here and elsewhere, the real issue is with those same editors and executives and what seems to be their collective attitude in regard to Miles, as if as far as they're concerned, he's just there so they can pat themselves on the back for the pretense of appealing to a broader audience or readership, but not feel as if they have to put more work or investment into his character, since they apparently don't value him the same way they do Peter, which results in certain liberties being taken with his character and stories that would be far less likely to be taken with Peter.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #1142
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    As grating as Anthony W's dismissal of Miles Morales's worth as a character and a Spider-Man is, he does raise a valid point about where Marvel editorial and execs' heads seem to be when it comes to how they treat Miles, which is a problem. Yeah, Peter Parker is always going to be the original and primary Spider-Man of the Marvel Universe, but considering Miles is the most prominent of the non-Peter Parker (clones like Ben Reilly included) Spider-Men at this point, it's still rather troubling that Marvel editors and execs seem to not care as much about building him up the same way they spent years if not decades doing for Peter. As pointed out here and elsewhere, the real issue is with those same editors and executives and what seems to be their collective attitude in regard to Miles, as if as far as they're concerned, he's just there so they can pat themselves on the back for the pretense of appealing to a broader audience or readership, but not feel as if they have to put more work or investment into his character, since they apparently don't value him the same way they do Peter, which results in certain liberties being taken with his character and stories that would be far less likely to be taken with Peter.
    I'm not dismissing him, if I was dismissive I wouldn't bother to complain. Sometimes you have to keep demanding that the people in charge "Do Better" It's like Star Trek. People kept complaining about it until we finally got "Strange New Worlds", and I still sometimes complain about that LOL. Marvel needs to look to DC's Nightwing for inspiration on how to handle Miles, a character that is a part of a big franchise with a big star that has nonetheless carved out a chunk of the franchise for himself.
    Last edited by Anthony W; 06-25-2022 at 09:30 PM.
    "The Marvel EIC Chair has a certain curse that goes along with it: it tends to drive people insane, and ultimately, out of the business altogether. It is the notorious last stop for many staffers, as once you've sat in The Big Chair, your pariah status is usually locked in." Christopher Priest

  3. #1143
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    The way I see it, Miles should have the coming of age teen drama storylines, and Peter should be allowed to grow up and have adult drama. Marriage, kids, career, that sort of thing. Instead they treat Peter as younger than he should be, causing unnecessary overlap, especially in adaptations like the cartoons.
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  4. #1144
    Mighty Member Webhead's Avatar
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    You could say they don't know what to do with Miles, but it's fair to argue that Marvel don't really know what the so-called Spider-landscape should look like to begin with.
    Last edited by Webhead; 06-26-2022 at 09:15 AM.

  5. #1145
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    Currently, Marvel doesn't want to age Peter or Miles up. Peter to a 30 something year old with new responsibilities that come with it( Like mentoring Miles instead of just getting him a card and saying keep doing you)and Miles into a young adult spider figuring out that you don't need to be an exact copy from the original but carry on the ideals from the predecessor into the new era.

  6. #1146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    I'm not dismissing him, if I was dismissive I wouldn't bother to complain. Sometimes you have to keep demanding that the people in charge "Do Better" It's like Star Trek. People kept complaining about it until we finally got "Strange New Worlds", and I still sometimes complain about that LOL. Marvel needs to look to DC's Nightwing for inspiration on how to handle Miles, a character that is a part of a big franchise with a big star that has nonetheless carved out a chunk of the franchise for himself.
    This would mean Miles would need his own stories that set him apart from Peter Parker. I've been in comic books since about 2016-ish, I've yet to see anyone ever talk about a Miles villain, storyline, or side-character. It's almost as if the guy is just there.

  7. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by milesvspeter View Post
    When i think of Spider-man i think of Miles. That's because i like Miles and don't care about Peter. Young kids that like Miles more will too. They can give him a new hero name, but it doesn't matter, because Miles is Miles. A new hero name will not make someone like Miles more or be less racist .
    As the uncle of two six-year-old, young kids do not think of Miles first. How do I know this? The videos they watch on YouTube calls him Miles Morales, not Spider-Man. Yeah, they probably sees him as Spider-Man thanks to the 2018 film. YouTube plays a big role in how kids sees superheroes.

  8. #1148
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    This is a thread for appreciating and discussing (positively) Miles. Let's get back on track.

  9. #1149

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    I thought Shadow Spider was a good alternative name for Miles. It debuted in the D&D arc during Jim Zub's Champions run. It fits his invisibility/camoflauge ability.
    Last edited by the illustrious mr. kenway; 06-26-2022 at 11:15 AM.

  10. #1150
    Incredible Member Dron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post

    One. The Oscars have no relevance anymore. Also did you miss the three movies with Peter in them culminating in that one that made All Of The Money? Oh, and Holland is negotiating for three more movies, not animated.
    The Oscars certainly may have lost quite a bit of it's luster but it's still an award studios enjoy winning. Looks good on a poster. It also wasn't just the Oscars that ITSV won though. BAFTA, Annecy, dozens of Magazines, several entertainment news outlets, all of which could be considered more "worthwhile opinions" were in agreement. NWH was certainly a crowd pleaser and similar to other MCU films made a boatload of money (Besides DS2 that is) but The constant churn of MCU content makes that movie kinda buried by the next film/series that pops up right after it. NWH didn't seem have that long of a discussion like say the Raimi Films or even TASM series (outside of specialized forums like this). Even when handed a freebie by the Oscars as an award to acknowledge blockbusters (biggest cheer) it lost to Justice League.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Two. Miles comic run. He is linked to the Spider-Man franchise and has had a not good but decent string of writers and artist. That's all it takes
    The ideas are strong. It practically changed the concept of what Spider-man is back in 2011. That idea is still affecting Spider-man comics today some 12 years later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Three. Videogames. Do I really have to say that Spider-Man: Miles Morales was smaller than the Peter's game release, but still longer than a traditional DLC leading many people to say it was lacking? Oh look, and now another full length game is coming and he is.....sharing the spotlight with Peter. It's almost like Sony doesn't want to waste real resources on him.
    It's quite an assumption to think Miles is tacked onto the story considering we don't know anything about it's plot besides that old teaser from last year?


    Comparing Miles to Dick is pretty bad imo. Dick was a combat aid and companion to Bruce for a large swath of his existence before breaking off on his own and becoming Nightwing. Miles was never a sidekick. Miles should never BE a sidekick. The closest comparison Miles has to that role would be in the PS4 version of Spider-man, who I felt was the weakest iteration of the character, even more so than the 2017 cartoon. Even then the first thing the PS5 game does is correct that mistake.

  11. #1151
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dron View Post
    The Oscars certainly may have lost quite a bit of it's luster but it's still an award studios enjoy winning. Looks good on a poster. It also wasn't just the Oscars that ITSV won though. BAFTA, Annecy, dozens of Magazines, several entertainment news outlets, all of which could be considered more "worthwhile opinions" were in agreement. NWH was certainly a crowd pleaser and similar to other MCU films made a boatload of money (Besides DS2 that is) but The constant churn of MCU content makes that movie kinda buried by the next film/series that pops up right after it. NWH didn't seem have that long of a discussion like say the Raimi Films or even TASM series (outside of specialized forums like this). Even when handed a freebie by the Oscars as an award to acknowledge blockbusters (biggest cheer) it lost to Justice League.


    The ideas are strong. It practically changed the concept of what Spider-man is back in 2011. That idea is still affecting Spider-man comics today some 12 years later.


    It's quite an assumption to think Miles is tacked onto the story considering we don't know anything about it's plot besides that old teaser from last year?


    Comparing Miles to Dick is pretty bad imo. Dick was a combat aid and companion to Bruce for a large swath of his existence before breaking off on his own and becoming Nightwing. Miles was never a sidekick. Miles should never BE a sidekick. The closest comparison Miles has to that role would be in the PS4 version of Spider-man, who I felt was the weakest iteration of the character, even more so than the 2017 cartoon. Even then the first thing the PS5 game does is correct that mistake.
    Fair enough on the sidekick thing, but at this point, at least in-universe, Dick Grayson as Nightwing is arguably more trusted, respected, and frankly loved by the DCU hero community at large than Batman is, mostly because Dick doesn't f*** up his relationships and alliances by being a distrustful, paranoid control freak like Batman tends to be written these days. Could draw a parallel, in that case, with Miles being better able (or more willing) to form relationships with his fellow superheroes, particularly the ones from his generation, than Peter with his own deep-seated inability or unwillingness to trust in and open up to others.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  12. #1152
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dron View Post
    Comparing Miles to Dick is pretty bad imo. Dick was a combat aid and companion to Bruce for a large swath of his existence before breaking off on his own and becoming Nightwing. Miles was never a sidekick. Miles should never BE a sidekick. The closest comparison Miles has to that role would be in the PS4 version of Spider-man, who I felt was the weakest iteration of the character, even more so than the 2017 cartoon. Even then the first thing the PS5 game does is correct that mistake.
    This is why I just don't think Peter and Miles really work together as double Spider-Men in the same story or narrative. Even in the Ultimate cartoon he basically became a sidekick when he joined Peter in the main universe (gotta love how he and his mom were completely okay with bailing on their home dimension just because Gwen was there).

    It's why I'm really curious to see how Insomniac handles the two together in Spider-Man 2.

    I will say, though, that I feel like Insomniac Miles had a more distinct character than in the 2017 cartoon even if it still had to make him more Peter like. Although a lot of characters just weren't developed much in that cartoon.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Fair enough on the sidekick thing, but at this point, at least in-universe, Dick Grayson as Nightwing is arguably more trusted, respected, and frankly loved by the DCU hero community at large than Batman is, mostly because Dick doesn't f*** up his relationships and alliances by being a distrustful, paranoid control freak like Batman tends to be written these days. Could draw a parallel, in that case, with Miles being better able (or more willing) to form relationships with his fellow superheroes, particularly the ones from his generation, than Peter with his own deep-seated inability or unwillingness to trust in and open up to others.
    I don't think that's really the case.

    I think the distinction is that Miles has the benefit of a more comfortable family life and support system than Peter did and had more peers his age compared to Peter who just had, really, Johnny and we know how feisty that was. Also just the fact that Peter was new he didn't have the benefit of people being as used to heroes and what they do as in Miles' era so people didn't quite know what to think of Spider-Man when he first debuted + the Bugles' smear campaign which never effected Miles. And even if he was sometimes abrasive towards them he was still able to effectively team-up and work with them otherwise Marvel Team-Up wouldn't exist.

  13. #1153
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This is why I just don't think Peter and Miles really work together as double Spider-Men in the same story or narrative. Even in the Ultimate cartoon he basically became a sidekick when he joined Peter in the main universe (gotta love how he and his mom were completely okay with bailing on their home dimension just because Gwen was there).

    It's why I'm really curious to see how Insomniac handles the two together in Spider-Man 2.

    I will say, though, that I feel like Insomniac Miles had a more distinct character than in the 2017 cartoon even if it still had to make him more Peter like. Although a lot of characters just weren't developed much in that cartoon.

    I don't think that's really the case.

    I think the distinction is that Miles has the benefit of a more comfortable family life and support system than Peter did and had more peers his age compared to Peter who just had, really, Johnny and we know how feisty that was. Also just the fact that Peter was new he didn't have the benefit of people being as used to heroes and what they do as in Miles' era so people didn't quite know what to think of Spider-Man when he first debuted + the Bugles' smear campaign which never effected Miles. And even if he was sometimes abrasive towards them he was still able to effectively team-up and work with them otherwise Marvel Team-Up wouldn't exist.
    Fair enough on that front, though I'd say that while Peter can work with others as Spider-Man, he does still have a very hard time truly trusting and opening up to them. Not as terrible as Batman has been, obviously, but his tendency to go it alone and not open up to others who could (and would) help him has hurt him a fair bit with many of his fellow superheroes, as was demonstrated in Nick Spencer's run. And yes, like you mention, Miles wasn't anywhere near as socially isolated as Peter was in both identities for most of his life, so that makes a certain degree of sense as well for why Miles is more comfortable opening up to his peers in the superhero community compared to Peter.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  14. #1154
    Incredible Member XenobladerX's Avatar
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    Some fanart by Nikolas Draper-Ivey:



  15. #1155
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Fair enough on that front, though I'd say that while Peter can work with others as Spider-Man, he does still have a very hard time truly trusting and opening up to them. Not as terrible as Batman has been, obviously, but his tendency to go it alone and not open up to others who could (and would) help him has hurt him a fair bit with many of his fellow superheroes, as was demonstrated in Nick Spencer's run. And yes, like you mention, Miles wasn't anywhere near as socially isolated as Peter was in both identities for most of his life, so that makes a certain degree of sense as well for why Miles is more comfortable opening up to his peers in the superhero community compared to Peter.
    I view that as less distrust and more general confidence that he can take care of stuff on his own, but I personally prefer my heroes fairly self-sufficient.
    Quote Originally Posted by XenobladerX View Post
    Some fanart by Nikolas Draper-Ivey:


    Got that YJ teen bod.

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