Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[phonogram12]

Dick's current run seems to be his most popular he had in years.

It's certainly his most critically acclaimed as well.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

I feel like the Brave and the Bold and The Batman cartoon captured that well.

Brave and the Bold is based off concepts from the golden/silver age right? Becuase I know Batman married Catwoman. I’ve never watched it but I can see them going the little brother/big sister route. In The Batman cartoon, they also felt a lot more like big sister/little brother!

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

It's certainly his most critically acclaimed as well.

I don’t think it’s his most critically acclaimed. I’d say it’s definately a fan favorite, but if we are using the eisners as any indication for acclaim, Bruno was the one who was mainly shilled. Series from Tomasi, Seeley/king and even Snyders runs were also critically acclaimed as well. I’d say it’s too soon to say whether or not the current run is critically acclaimed yet. Dick is a very popular character amongst comic fans, it feels like no matter how many bad runs or takes he has, fans still rally behind him which is a good thing.

[Drako]

I don’t think it’s his most critically acclaimed. I’d say it’s definately a fan favorite, but if we are using the eisners as any indication for acclaim, Bruno was the one who was mainly shilled. Series from Tomasi, Seeley/king and even Snyders runs were also critically acclaimed as well. I’d say it’s too soon to say whether or not the current run is critically acclaimed yet. Dick is a very popular character amongst comic fans, it feels like no matter how many bad runs or takes he has, fans still rally behind him which is a good thing.

Tom Taylor and Bruno Redondo's run are critically acclaimed. All you have to do is go to Comic book round up and see the aggregate score for each issue. The only issue with a score below 8 is the one from Fear State.

Now, scroll down a little bit and compare to Seeley's run.

https://comicbookroundup.com/comic-b...ghtwing-(2016)

Edit: I erased the first part of my post cause came across kinda douchy, no need for that. I apologize.

[Ascended]

I'd entertain the argument that Dixon's run was more acclaimed, but nothing since has come close to the level of positive recognition Taylor has gotten. And I don't know if I'd say Dixon *was* more acclaimed at the time either, plenty of people didn't like the Bat-Lite direction Dick was taken in and the glory days of the Titans was much more fresh. But then, I dunno if you can even compare these two runs; Dixon built the foundation of modern Nightwing and comparing that to anything else almost feels a bit like an apples/oranges situation.

[Felipe Silveira]

Dick had a different opinion.
The Batman Family 013-018.jpg

[Ascended]

Yeah, I think people need to consider what - in the current climate - "being an A Lister" means.

I'd suggest that, in the main, you're looking at:

1) Has their own ongoing title that has run more then 20 issues
2) Appears frequently in titles other than their own
3) Appears in outside media
4) Is featured in the majority of universe-wide events
5) [less sold on this one, feels a bit of a judgement call] Is part of the line-up in a book other than their own ongoing.

Nightwing seems to currently be meeting that criteria handily, and whatever they eventually do with the Titans will surely only help.

I'd tentatively suggest adding something like:

"Can maintain sales across multiple creative teams." If a book only sells because of the writer then it's not the character who's A-list. And I don't necessarily mean "top 10" sales either, just maintaining relatively consistent numbers above cancellation levels, even when the creators aren't the best, is enough to prove a loyal fanbase who'll ensure the title remains afloat.

"Has a developed mythos centered around them." It doesn't have to be as well developed or expansive as Bruce and Clark's settings, but if the hero can't bring anything to the table except themselves, I'm not sure if we can call them an A-lister. There's gotta be a villain or a location or a supporting character or something who can show up on their own and have people say "Hey, that belongs to X!"

In the first case, Dick definitely qualifies. Dude's sales are more consistent than most of DC's IP. Not the highest, but certainly among the most stable.

In the second case, I think the argument in favor of Dick is a strong one, but not air tight.

Bruce's shadow hangs heavy over Nightwing's mythology and history, which makes Dick's world seem less his own, but I think we can reasonably say that most people picking up a comic will recognize Blockbuster and Bludhaven as Nightwing elements (regardless of where Roland got his start) but the general public wouldn't. The comics don't use it enough, but Haly's Circus is likely recognizable to most/all comic fans and a solid chunk of the general audience as belonging to Dick. So there's *something there that Dick can call his own.

I dunno if I accept the idea, but I think there's also an argument that the adult Titans are on their way to being folded into Dick's personal mythos as well. He's indisputably their biggest name-draw and usually at the center of their stories. The adult Titans rarely make a showing at all without him. Dick outsells the team, and is the only one among them other than Wally who can hold down a solo at all. I don't think *I* would say the Titans have been absorbed into Nightwing's personal mythos, but I do think they're in the process of it, like how the Fourth World became part of Superman's mythos through the 90's.

[Claude]

I'd tentatively suggest adding something like:

"Can maintain sales across multiple creative teams." If a book only sells because of the writer then it's not the character who's A-list. And I don't necessarily mean "top 10" sales either, just maintaining relatively consistent numbers above cancellation levels, even when the creators aren't the best, is enough to prove a loyal fanbase who'll ensure the title remains afloat.

Yep, that's a good one. If Jonathan Hickman came over and did a best-selling Firestorm title that tanked when someone like Scott Lobdell took it over - thats Hickman being an A-Lister, not Firestorm.

"Has a developed mythos centered around them." It doesn't have to be as well developed or expansive as Bruce and Clark's settings, but if the hero can't bring anything to the table except themselves, I'm not sure if we can call them an A-lister. There's gotta be a villain or a location or a supporting character or something who can show up on their own and have people say "Hey, that belongs to X!"

...

In the second case, I think the argument in favor of Dick is a strong one, but not air tight.

Bruce's shadow hangs heavy over Nightwing's mythology and history, which makes Dick's world seem less his own, but I think we can reasonably say that most people picking up a comic will recognize Blockbuster and Bludhaven as Nightwing elements (regardless of where Roland got his start) but the general public wouldn't. The comics don't use it enough, but Haly's Circus is likely recognizable to most/all comic fans and a solid chunk of the general audience as belonging to Dick. So there's *something there that Dick can call his own.

I dunno if I accept the idea, but I think there's also an argument that the adult Titans are on their way to being folded into Dick's personal mythos as well. He's indisputably their biggest name-draw and usually at the center of their stories. The adult Titans rarely make a showing at all without him. Dick outsells the team, and is the only one among them other than Wally who can hold down a solo at all. I don't think *I* would say the Titans have been absorbed into Nightwing's personal mythos, but I do think they're in the process of it, like how the Fourth World became part of Superman's mythos through the 90's.

I think there's something to that, certainly - even if I've been afraid to say so in the past. Honestly, there's a non-zero chance in my mind that after Dark Crisis and Nightwing #100 - the big change is that the ongoing Nightwing book closes down, and Taylor and Redondo launch Nightwing And The Titans or something with a new #1. Wouldn't put money on it, but wouldn't hugely bet against it! I keep thinking about that Dan Mora promo art for the post Dark Crisis DCU - the Big Seven, Shazam, and the Titans - where "The Titans" are Nightwing, Starfire and Cyborg. If Dick wasn't part of the plans for the team, there's no way there'd have been a "Starfire, Cyborg and Beast Boy" picture there instead.


It's an interesting point about unique mythology - not least because a lot of what people consider "Batman Stuff" was really "Batman And Robin" stuff that Dick has a claim to.

(It'll be interesting to see if and when Spyral turn up again - if they revert back to being a Batman thing, stay a Dick Grayson thing, a more neutral Spy Thing or just never get mentioned again.)

[Reddead]

Eh, remember the Beast Boy and Raven YA graphic novels outsell anything from DC that isn't Watchmen or the same old ever-selling Batman stories.

DC just hasn't managed to figure out the Titans franchise in the comics themselves. They probably will eventually now that DiDio is gone. Turning the Titans into Nightwing supporting characters would be stupid because the franchise is more valuable than Nightwing himself (ask yourselves why Dick has never appeared in other media without Batman or the Titans).

You point out that in the Dawn of the DCU cover Starfire or Cyborg wouldn't appear without Dick, but the truth is that point also works the other way around (Why did DC felt the need to include Dick alongside the Titans instead of him being included as a solo hero like Wally?)

[K7P5V]

His love interest should either be from a franchise he isn’t already associated with (aka no love interest from Batman or Titans mythos please) or it can be from his own mythos. If it’s gonna be from another franchise, my vote would be for either Zatanna or Powergirl. But tbh, I kinda want Dick to have a love interest who is also street level, but there arnt that many street level female characters who aren’t apart of batfam or are actually single (not that many females in general). But a civilian love interest is ok too.

I know, right?! The only female, street-level vigilante I could think of would be Kate Spencer. I'm not even sure she's Dick's type, though...

[Felipe Silveira]

The Titans benefit more from having Dick on the team than Dick being on the team.

[Vordan]

Nightwing is a weird character because he *is* A-List, he’s been in animation, video games, live action, he can hold down his own ongoing and it frequently sells better than mainline Justice Leaguers such as Aquaman. He actually has more content featuring him in a lead role than anyone besides Batman and Superman. But he doesn't feel A-List.

The problem is that the mainstream audience isn’t invested in Nightwing outside of his connection to the Batfamily. They don’t care about Bludhaven, or his life there, they’re only interested in seeing him interact with Batman and his fellow Robins/Batgirls. That’s what separates him, Aquaman has an independent life outside of the League that people are aware of, whereas most casuals couldn’t tell you anything about Nightwing’s corner of the DCU besides the Titans and his relationships there. Selling him as an A-Lister would take focusing on what he does apart from the Batfamily and the Titans, which they have not really done yet in his adaptions.

[Badou]

Nightwing isn't A list, but Robin is A list. They've only started to use Nightwing more in other media consistently fairly recently it feels like. It wasn't that long ago where they were releasing a new Arkham game and Robin, Batgirl, and Jason all outpaced him where Nightwing just got some minimal DLC in it. That is kind of what Nightwing was for a long time. He'd appear here and there but rarely as a main focus. Things have been trending upward though.

But Grayson is in a weird spot where the identity he gave up, Robin, is still bigger than the identity he has now in Nightwing. Robin is iconic and Nightwing isn't and Dick's overall influence is split between the two. There are very few characters like that who stick around and are still successful. Nightwing is one of the most successful examples of changing identities like that, but he is still trying to get back to what he was as Robin in some ways. Despite the live action Titans show most probably look at Robin as being the leader of the Titans over Nightwing still. So there are situations like that which kind of make it difficult for Nightwing to progress.

[WonderNight]

Nightwing is a weird character because he *is* A-List, he’s been in animation, video games, live action, he can hold down his own ongoing and it frequently sells better than mainline Justice Leaguers such as Aquaman. He actually has more content featuring him in a lead role than anyone besides Batman and Superman. But he doesn't feel A-List.

The problem is that the mainstream audience isn’t invested in Nightwing outside of his connection to the Batfamily. They don’t care about Bludhaven, or his life there, they’re only interested in seeing him interact with Batman and his fellow Robins/Batgirls. That’s what separates him, Aquaman has an independent life outside of the League that people are aware of, whereas most casuals couldn’t tell you anything about Nightwing’s corner of the DCU besides the Titans and his relationships there. Selling him as an A-Lister would take focusing on what he does apart from the Batfamily and the Titans, which they have not really done yet in his adaptions.

I believe you got it backwards. Young Justice, Titans and teen Titans show that the mainstream doesn't have a problem with him being outside of the batfamily. It's the comics fans that has the problem!! This is why I don't like his love interest and best friends being the batfamily. Yes they are his family but leave it at that. Nightwing will never a mainstream solo push, there's no point when almost everything about Nightwing comes from or belongs to batman!

Bludhaven is just Gotham and full of Batman characters. The reason why nightwing had cyborg and starfire with him in the poster is because unlike like all the other characters, nightwing doesn't have his own independent franchise!! It's Batman or Titans

Say Nightwing could get a solo movie or series or game, but what would it be about? Bludhaven, batfamily, dickbabs? Mine as well just give it to Batman with nightwing as a support character!

The thing is nightwing is still too dependent on Batman to truly spread his wing and fly!! But it mostly his comicbook fans who like it that way!! But hey it is what it is.

[WonderNight]

I know, right?! The only female, street-level vigilante I could think of would be Kate Spencer. I'm not even sure she's Dick's type, though...

I still feel like they should introduce Artemis from YJ as dicks catwoman.