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  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I get where you're coming from but dc didn't create all these new legacy characters, a 5th generation! Just so characters that's been in the background for like decades can get a push.

    The death of the justice league is clearly about a new big 6 of legacy characters, the next generation justice league/ big 6. People that don't see this and think characters like blue Beetle or captain atom or going to get the push are fooling themselves.

    Hopefully cyborg can get the martian manhunter 7th spot to the new legacy big 6.
    While DC definitely have their plans, we already know that they change their plans to accommodate for general interest and sales. Didn't Tynion complain about the plans changing constantly, and that was on his flagship book?
    DC created Wallace West to replace Wally and then took it back once the fans didn't accept him. They abandoned the entire "new 52" once it was no longer profitable and created Rebirth.
    Right now characters like Steph, Cass, and Wally who were abandoned for years are now back. Wally is the main Flash, Cass and Steph are the main Batgirls.

    So it's entirely possible that if Jace flops or if the new league won't sell, we'll see Dick there. Or that he'll play some part in mentoring the new league. He's already Damian's mentor, and he's likely going to be Jon's mentor as well.

  2. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I get where you're coming from but dc didn't create all these new legacy characters, a 5th generation! Just so characters that's been in the background for like decades can get a push.

    The death of the justice league is clearly about a new big 6 of legacy characters, the next generation justice league/ big 6. People that don't see this and think characters like blue Beetle or captain atom or going to get the push are fooling themselves.

    Hopefully cyborg can get the martian manhunter 7th spot to the new legacy big 6.
    Thing is that imo the status of the League as the most important team comes from having the big 6 on the team, and not the other way arround.

    Replacing all them with other characters is not elevating these characters, it is devaluing the league (especially if the new characters are all rookies with less experience than even Damians Generation).


    You can maybe elevate one or two legacy character like that, if you put him on a team with the originals and and have him excepted by them.

  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lal View Post
    While DC definitely have their plans, we already know that they change their plans to accommodate for general interest and sales. Didn't Tynion complain about the plans changing constantly, and that was on his flagship book?
    DC created Wallace West to replace Wally and then took it back once the fans didn't accept him. They abandoned the entire "new 52" once it was no longer profitable and created Rebirth.
    Right now characters like Steph, Cass, and Wally who were abandoned for years are now back. Wally is the main Flash, Cass and Steph are the main Batgirls.

    So it's entirely possible that if Jace flops or if the new league won't sell, we'll see Dick there. Or that he'll play some part in mentoring the new league. He's already Damian's mentor, and he's likely going to be Jon's mentor as well.
    You know that ain’t true they would just return the old league. ? I don’t think they will give up on Jace they way they did Wallace. It’s one thing to pass on a title but Wally shouldn’t be fighting to be THE wally west of DC. Kid flash can evaporate and we use Bolt/alinta

  4. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    You can maybe elevate one or two legacy character like that, if you put him on a team with the originals and and have him excepted by them.
    I mean they could replace all of them and just say f to the originals, it just wouldn't sell well but if it's a set up for somethng bigger, they might not care about sales but I think we all know that the original JL will return at some point.

    Also why excatly did they create another new character? We already had Luke and David, both pretty interesting characters so why not make them Batman instead of another new character?

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanestar View Post
    I mean they could replace all of them and just say f to the originals, it just wouldn't sell well but if it's a set up for somethng bigger, they might not care about sales but I think we all know that the original JL will return at some point.

    Also why excatly did they create another new character? We already had Luke and David, both pretty interesting characters so why not make them Batman instead of another new character?
    Technically Jace isn't "new," although he may as well be.

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    You know that ain’t true they would just return the old league. ? I don’t think they will give up on Jace they way they did Wallace. It’s one thing to pass on a title but Wally shouldn’t be fighting to be THE wally west of DC. Kid flash can evaporate and we use Bolt/alinta
    I think you believe that DC have a sophisticated master plan, but we already know that they don't really have one. Not a consistent one, at least.
    Just last year they planned to make Damian their big bad. They made him a villain in TT, complete with a suicide vest and made him abandon the Robin mantle. fans refused to accept it, and they did a 180, abandoned their plan, and he's a hero again, Robin again, and one of their best selling titles.
    So even if they keep Jace around with fumbling sales, I think we'll see Dick and Damian around, as long as they'll continue to sell well and have a strong and vocal enough fanbase.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Technically Jace isn't "new," although he may as well be.
    Yeah I just checked, apparently he was created back in 1979 so my bad but still a weird choice to bring him back.

  8. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanestar View Post
    I mean they could replace all of them and just say f to the originals, it just wouldn't sell well but if it's a set up for somethng bigger, they might not care about sales but I think we all know that the original JL will return at some point.
    They could also bring Justice League Antarctica back, and make them the main JL... that wouldn't elevate those characters, but that would at least be funny.

  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderNight View Post
    I get where you're coming from but dc didn't create all these new legacy characters, a 5th generation! Just so characters that's been in the background for like decades can get a push.

    The death of the justice league is clearly about a new big 6 of legacy characters, the next generation justice league/ big 6. People that don't see this and think characters like blue Beetle or captain atom or going to get the push are fooling themselves.

    Hopefully cyborg can get the martian manhunter 7th spot to the new legacy big 6.
    Oh I know what DC is doing and why. And we've all seen this sort of thing play out plenty of times in the past so we all know how it'll end; poorly. Gimmicks (almost) never end any other way.

    Like someone already said, the League isn't what makes you A-list; it's where you go when you're already A-list, and pretty much every time DC has tried to elevate a character simply by putting them on the League, it doesn't work. Just invites comparisons to the "real" League that nobody benefits from.

    I'm just saying; if DC's goal here is to build up a new generation of heroes and present them as the greatest heroes on earth, then the characters should be ones who have a legitimate claim to GOAT status, not a bunch of rookies barely out of their origin stories.

    And I got nothing against the Future State roster; I like most of them so this isn't me just hating anything new or different. But the League represents something, and these rookies don't fit the bill. DC can tell us different, they can tell us that these rookies who haven't done anything worth mentioning yet are somehow better heroes than guys like Dick and Wally who have hundreds upon hundreds of stories to their name. But just because DC says it does not make it so, and nobody is gonna believe the Future State kids are worthy of League status but somehow Dick, Wally, etc., aren't.

    We'll see how it plays out. We don't even know what this whole thing is going to be yet. But if the dust settles and Nightwing and heroes like him (Terrific, Wally, whomever, not necessarily Titans) aren't leading the heroic community (in whatever form the new leadership takes), if it's just DC pushing their current pet projects, then this isn't a story; it's just a gimmick. And comics are too expensive for me to waste cash on a gimmick.
    Last edited by Ascended; 01-24-2022 at 04:24 PM.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

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  10. #445

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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanestar View Post
    Yeah I just checked, apparently he was created back in 1979 so my bad but still a weird choice to bring him back.
    It's to give some freedom with the character. A Black man as Batman needs to be a certain kind of guy, and you can't really just stick any random Black guy in the suit and make it work lol. Jace is a guilt-ridden man looking to protect people with a specific symbol... man, it's hard to explain this without spoilers lol. But basically, he's a definite parallel to Bruce but unlike characters like Dick, the inciting incident is very different. It's been a slow burn, but his origin and current development is really neat.

    Back to the Justice League thing, I wouldn't throw out Blue Beetle when it comes to a new League. The DCEU is looking to position the character on the JL based on current rumours and, you know, it's pretty obvious they'd go that way given the Blue Beetle movie is happening and is one of the first movies of the new DCEU movies. Since it sounds like Dick is in Batgirl as a cameo, it would make sense for Dick to be elevated too, and I'm sure DC would be happy about that given how well the Nightwing book itself is doing. The question is more will we get Dick over Jace or a dark horse character like Damian (being currently written by Williamson)? Of course, a lot of the justification for Dick can technically apply just as much, if not more so, to Babs.

  11. #446

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I really don't want a Big 7 legacy junior Justice League, but if Dick and Wally get their due and are put on the roster then I'll accept the rest of the Titans getting ignored.

    My preference would be for Cyborg to return to the League too, especially a next generation one like this might be. But if Dick and Wally both get proper respect from DC, I won't push my luck.

    That's all I'm asking; use Nightwing instead of Jace. Use Wally instead of, or in addition to, Kid Quick (who I definitely wanna see more of, but not at the expense of Wally being treated properly). I know that doesn't work with DC's diversity quota, but I'm not reading a story where a rookie like Jace gets the call to the big leagues instead of Nightwing.
    Wally and Cyborg should be on the League but I'm not a fan of Nightwing being a part of the JL. It makes the Titans seem like a stepping stone to the JL and not a team in their own right. Dick's whole character is that he is trying to be his own man and finding his own place in the world, thus he should be leading his own team and not picking up after Bruce by leading the JL and Outsiders.

    I'm cool with Jace being on the JL since he was tailor made to be the new Batman anyway.

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Wally and Cyborg should be on the League but I'm not a fan of Nightwing being a part of the JL. It makes the Titans seem like a stepping stone to the JL and not a team in their own right. Dick's whole character is that he is trying to be his own man and finding his own place in the world, thus he should be leading his own team and not picking up after Bruce by leading the JL and Outsiders.

    I'm cool with Jace being on the JL since he was tailor made to be the new Batman anyway.
    Honestly, as much as I like the Titans, they are a jr Justice League. They will always be considered the B team. Its not like the X-Men compared to the Avengers. The Titans are regarded as the sidekick team to the general public. And tbh they kind of are. They have no mission statement and have not had single good run since Wolman/Perez 35 yrs ago. While I would prefer they still remain friends, I think it would greatly benefit Dick to move away from the team all together. Either join League or a different team with an actual mission statement. The Titans books do nothing but hold the generation back from doing grander things.

    Obviously no one other than the main 7 stay on the League permanently so Dick can always go back to the Titans if he needs to. Or even serve on both. But joining the League does not devalue the Titans because your worst case scenario is already the reality.
    Last edited by Iclifton; 01-24-2022 at 07:01 PM.

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lal View Post
    I think you believe that DC have a sophisticated master plan, but we already know that they don't really have one. Not a consistent one, at least.
    Just last year they planned to make Damian their big bad. They made him a villain in TT, complete with a suicide vest and made him abandon the Robin mantle. fans refused to accept it, and they did a 180, abandoned their plan, and he's a hero again, Robin again, and one of their best selling titles.
    So even if they keep Jace around with fumbling sales, I think we'll see Dick and Damian around, as long as they'll continue to sell well and have a strong and vocal enough fanbase.
    I know they don’t have a plane not anymore. The last one botched and for god reason with Diddo out. I’m just saying DC can’t just make Black Batman disappear, it be unwise after last year after all

  14. #449
    Mighty Member ayanestar's Avatar
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    I personally wish DC would try to push some of their Asian characters as well, but I guess I'm asking for too much.

  15. #450

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    Quote Originally Posted by ayanestar View Post
    I personally wish DC would try to push some of their Asian characters as well, but I guess I'm asking for too much.
    Connor Hawke might finally get some love after all this. His return has been handled entirely by Williamson after all, so I think it's pretty likely that he'll be on this new team.

    Besides that, I think the Monkey Prince, Robin, and Batgirls books are the only books with Asian leads at DC which is not the widest offering lol. Robin is a good book at least, and I believe in the Monkey Prince creative team so there's that.

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