Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[ayanestar]

I have a suspicion that post merger, DC is going to have to focus their lines. They are going to need to focus on what sells. Babs sells. She has a set of fans that will follow her across books...as does Dick, Damian, Bruce. Starfire, not so much and and Helena even less so. New characters in this age even less so. New characters in the current writing phase tend to be under developed (and self inserts), not sales. Bruce Batman sells. To me, sticking with the Batfamily means pulling in those fandoms and sells...sells means continuing focus on that character.

Starfire's solo did well enough, and she is a popular character thanks to the 2003 TT series. If DC actually embraced what fans liked about the OG series and managed to make it work as a comic or hell if they just rebooted the whole series and continued with a new season, I can guarantee you it would be a success. I still see a lot of fanart, fanfiction and edits of the series, something I can't say about most of DC's franchise. I don't even care who Dick ends up with because I don't care much about romance, but let's not pretend there isn't potential with Starfire and the OG Titans (from the show). It also would be great if we could stop the whole Babs vs. Starfire thing, they are both good characters and can exist and be in the spotlight at the same time.

[Felipe Silveira]

Moon Knight enjoyed the show very well, and it's not because it's the same as the show, it's because it's good.

You don't have to follow the other media, but take advantage of it to release good material, with a creative team that draws attention.
It's no use releasing a Titans comic with Tim Sheridan writing and hoping it sells well, now, if you release a Titans comic written by Hickman and drawn by Ivan Reis, it would be in the TOP 10 for at least 20 months, because people would have a expectation of something important happening.

[Drako]

The Titans are a popular franchise, TTGO is still going strong and most kids enjoy the show. The old cartoon still has a lot of fans and even the poorly made live action is being watched by a bunch of people. But DC right now can barelly make a JL book that sells.

Titans Academy had a good concept, but might work better with another team. They thought Red X was popular enough to bring people into the book, and maybe that was the case at the beginning, but Tim Sheridan is just plain horrible and at the end no one cared.

They need a good creative team to revitalize the franchise, but right now they seem to think that a mini-series that doesn't even take place in continuity is enough.

[OOPS]

Starfire's solo did well enough, and she is a popular character thanks to the 2003 TT series. If DC actually embraced what fans liked about the OG series and managed to make it work

That's my point, though. I don't think DC is at a point right now where "well enough" is enough...nor is "make it work". Yes, in the hands of Perez or ONeil or Dixion, any and all characters had the potential to gain a strong following and work in just about any story. Right now, DC doesn't have that level of skill. Look at Teen Titans Academy. Sheridan really seems to have has the goal of introducing lasting characters. The skill to do so wasn't there. That doesn't even address how Starfire was handled.

I'm also not sure TTGO fan base translates into comic book readers or vice versa....esp when some Teen Titans fans still think Robin is Tim.

[ayanestar]

That's my point, though. I don't think DC is at a point right now where "well enough" is enough...nor is "make it work". Yes, in the hands of Perez or ONeil or Dixion, any and all characters had the potential to gain a strong following and work in just about any story. Right now, DC doesn't have that level of skill. Look at Teen Titans Academy. Sheridan really seems to have has the goal of introducing lasting characters. The skill to do so wasn't there. That doesn't even address how Starfire was handled.

I'm also not sure TTGO fan base translates into comic book readers or vice versa....esp when some Teen Titans fans still think Robin is Tim.

What DC needs is to make money outside of comics because no matter what they do, comics are and will stay expensive, so of course it's a lot harder to attract fans of a TV series to buy comics. It hasn't worked for Riverdale, nor for DC's webtoons. Also, I have never met a TTGO fan who thought Robin was Tim. You are probably thinking of fans of the Young Justice comic or something. Anyway, most of DC's comics are just doing "well enough" right now besides Batman, so I don't see about what exactly we are arguing here? All I wanted to point out is that DC has other properties that could make them money and gain positive attention besides comics, but considering in what kind of mess WB is right now, I guess they have other things to worry about.

[Daedalus]

So my viewpoint is different. I'll be honest I don't get the Dick Kory relationship...which seems like a teen relationship to me. That my impact my perspective.

I mean, it was a teen relationship. Some people wish it had continued into Dick's adulthood, but as it was written, it was very much a teen relationship that ended once Dick settled into adulthood.

What DC needs is to make money outside of comics because no matter what they do, comics are and will stay expensive

Comics just had their best year in history. DC Comics didn't, and that's more reflective of its current state than anything with the inherent medium.

Also, I have never met a TTGO fan who thought Robin was Tim.

Lucky you; it's a common discussion. TTGO's Robin is somewhat of a composite character, though obviously sharing some history with Dick Grayson. TTGO doesn't really have much continuity and embraces that confusion, much like it embraces all nonsense. In one episode, both Tim Drake and Dick Grayson appear as entirely separate characters from main Robin, one listed as "Happy Robin" and the other as "Dark Robin". In another episode, main Robin has an ID with his name listed as "Tim Drake". In yet another episode, future main Robin is now Nightwing, married to Batgirl. It's intentionally messy, which is alright for a comedic show of 400 episodes.

The old 2000s cartoon is, naturally, a different story. It took continuity more seriously.

most of DC's comics are just doing "well enough" right now besides Batman

I'm all for non-Bat comics, but this line of argument isn't quite a winner. Most of the non-Bat line is cancelled. Each year that passes, we get more Batman as a share of the total. Clearly, DC prefers a Bat-book rather than a non-Batbook in terms of sales.

[OOPS]

Actually I had the Robin is Tim conversation recently at my son's camp. A camp counselor spotted us reading "Robin", then spent about 30 minutes explaining how much of a Tim fan he was and how great the Tim portrayal in Teen Titans/TTGO was as it had his favorite Robin. I just nodded along and said Kiddo's favorite is Damain

If rumors are true, and they are having to run 3 month accounting, the days of "good enough" may be passed.

[Drako]

There is a episode that takes place in the Future where he becomes Nightwing and people still thinks its Tim Drake.

It's like that one scene in The Batman cartoon were Dicks unprompted beats a bad guy and people say "Oh my god, it's cleary Jason". Like this characters only have one state of mind.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Actually I had the Robin is Tim conversation recently at my son's camp. A camp counselor spotted us reading "Robin", then spent about 30 minutes explaining how much of a Tim fan he was and how great the Tim portrayal in Teen Titans/TTGO was as it had his favorite Robin. I just nodded along and said Kiddo's favorite is Damain

If rumors are true, and they are having to run 3 month accounting, the days of "good enough" may be passed.

LOL you wont believe how many people I know who believe the following:

1. Tim Drake is THE Robin
2. Tim Babs is the Batgirl and Robin pairing
3. The Robin in Teen Titans is Tim
4. Nightwing was just a character created for BTAS lol
5. Robin is the real name

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

In yet another episode, future main Robin is now Nightwing, married to Batgirl. It's intentionally messy, which is alright for a comedic show of 400 episodes

If i remember correctly, not only was this future completely destroyed lol but everyone was horrified that it happened lol.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

So my viewpoint is different. I'll be honest I don't get the Dick Kory relationship...which seems like a teen relationship to me. That my impact my perspective.

I have a suspicion that post merger, DC is going to have to focus their lines. They are going to need to focus on what sells. Babs sells. She has a set of fans that will follow her across books...as does Dick, Damian, Bruce. Starfire, not so much and and Helena even less so. New characters in this age even less so. New characters in the current writing phase tend to be under developed (and self inserts), not sales. Bruce Batman sells. To me, sticking with the Batfamily means pulling in those fandoms and sells...sells means continuing focus on that character.

TBH I think the fact that it happened in a title called "Teen Titans" does confuse people. But Dick and Kory were both adults when they started their relationships! Dick was out of college, Kory had a job as a model and her own apartment. I wanna say they were both reaching 24 when they decided to get married.

I think that post merger whats gonna happen is that the line is gonna get purged to the point that only the 7 man justice leaguers will have solo comics/anthologies to synergize with the mainstream content. Any other character will literally have to prove to be a mainstream success to justify giving them a comic. Comics are expensive to make. The reason why Teen Titans has a comic despite sucking is because the money from merch and the tv show subsidizes it. Same for why Joker and Harley have comics. I love Nightwing, but I dont see him surviving an actual comic book purge as beyond comics he isnt a major seller. Babs might be able to, but thats only because of being associated with Batman either as a sidekick or love interest so her best bet would be featuring in the Batman main comic as a main character. None of the Titans would get solos thats for sure. Perhaps Raven might be the only one since she actually is the most mainstream popular of them all.

[OOPS]

I don't know that the 7 Justice League characters will get solos...because they aren't selling. Nightwing may not be selling merchandise, but as much as I dislike the current run, does sell books. While I agree merch and outside merchandise makes the money, I suspect as long as the publisher is a publisher or IP license-er, the lines that sell will exist in some format.

I did realize Dick and Kory were young adults and not teens...the relationship just seems teen to me.

Is Raven the most popular in the mainstream? I've not really seen that. But then it does seem the more popular versions of the characters are missing from the comics.

[JackJustMetMartin]

TBH I think the fact that it happened in a title called "Teen Titans" does confuse people. But Dick and Kory were both adults when they started their relationships! Dick was out of college, Kory had a job as a model and her own apartment. I wanna say they were both reaching 24 when they decided to get married.

I think that post merger whats gonna happen is that the line is gonna get purged to the point that only the 7 man justice leaguers will have solo comics/anthologies to synergize with the mainstream content. Any other character will literally have to prove to be a mainstream success to justify giving them a comic. Comics are expensive to make. The reason why Teen Titans has a comic despite sucking is because the money from merch and the tv show subsidizes it. Same for why Joker and Harley have comics. I love Nightwing, but I dont see him surviving an actual comic book purge as beyond comics he isnt a major seller. Babs might be able to, but thats only because of being associated with Batman either as a sidekick or love interest so her best bet would be featuring in the Batman main comic as a main character. None of the Titans would get solos thats for sure. Perhaps Raven might be the only one since she actually is the most mainstream popular of them all.

Except comic-sales-wise I'm pretty sure Nightwing actually outperforms some/most of the "7 main justice leaguers". He's a safe bet in comic form, why ruin that?

https://www.comicbookrevolution.com/...ales-rankings/

[thefinalguy]

I did realize Dick and Kory were young adults and not teens...the relationship just seems teen to me.

I feel like this reduces a lot of the nuance in their relationship. They grew together from teens to adults; it's much more together than a teen romance, at the very least when writers want to acknowledge Kory, not as a second option.

And, I feel their growing together has added a lot more to them as a couple than DickBabs ever really has. Especially since Babs had to be physically deaged and inserted as a love interest after an editorial-mandated break-up with a convoluted retcon that had to be retconned because it was too out of character for Dick.

Also, the Titans CAN sell, DC for some reason has failed to give them anyone who actually can write these characters. They haven't had a good run since pre-Graduation Day.

[Mantis-Ray]

Is Raven the most popular in the mainstream? I've not really seen that. But then it does seem the more popular versions of the characters are missing from the comics.

I'm reminded there is a mountain of people who still thirst for Raven and Starfire due to the cartoon.

Tellingly a lot of their fan-art does tend to be of their show designs which is indicative of the effect its had on the pop culture osmosis even years later.