Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Having a good supporting cast is all well and good but sometimes I think you can have a too active supporting cast that makes it seem like the protagonist needs them to get anything done rather than himself. And I get it, Dick's a fundamentally good guy, but I feel like Taylor is maybe leaning too hard into that characterization and making him a little too...soft, I guess?

I don't think Taylor would be writing the Dick and Babs he's writing now if not for the way Dixon characterized them, and there was more to Blockbuster too. Dicks' modern voice and personality owes a lot to Dixon, as does Babs.

With Dick he saw a specific source for it in Blockbuster and actively catered his career towards fixing it, as he is now, so in that respect I think it's the same.

Taylor wouldn't be able to pair Dick and Babs together without all the buildup and romantic tension Dixon created for the two across multiple books and that other writers continued with. Their entire viability as a couple mostly comes from Dixon.

(Batman as the supervisor or commander is a common characterization point for Bruce back then).

Depending on the run but I don't think Taylor is really going to get into the nitty gritty of it either.

ehh Dick Babs was only really a thing in Devin Grayson, Scott Beatty and Dixon content! Batgirl Year one, No Mans Land, Nightwing Year one, Gotham Knights all the stories that have major dick babs vibes were from Dixon or Grayson. Dixon even said himself that Dick Babs were not gonna be anything serious in the end and that their attraction was motly becaust of working together closely. So he wasnt really building them up to be anything other than a "we tried and it didnt work". And this shows when every writer who isnt mentioned in the former or based theri run off the late 90s/early 2000s content for Nightwing, Dick normally has new love interest and is not in Bludhaven.

[Frontier]

ehh Dick Babs was only really a thing in Devin Grayson, Scott Beatty and Dixon content! Batgirl Year one, No Mans Land, Nightwing Year one, Gotham Knights all the stories that have major dick babs vibes were from Dixon or Grayson. Dixon even said himself that Dick Babs were not gonna be anything serious in the end and that their attraction was motly becaust of working together closely. So he wasnt really building them up to be anything other than a "we tried and it didnt work". And this shows when every writer who isnt mentioned in the former or based theri run off the late 90s/early 2000s content for Nightwing, Dick normally has new love interest and is not in Bludhaven.

But he laid out the main groundwork for the relationship happening in the comics and being taken seriously and other writers developed it afterwards.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

But he laid out the main groundwork for the relationship happening in the comics and being taken seriously and other writers developed it afterwards.

But the main Nightwing writers who developed it further really were Devin Grayson and Tom taylor. Really, if we are to be honest with ourselves, most Dick Babs content is in Batgirl, BOP or Batfam related content and not Nightwing solo content. If you look at Nightwing's content solely for Dick Babs, it's the same three writers Dixon, Beatty Grayson and now a fourth with Tom Taylor. I think this fact is largely overlooked when it comes to how popular the ship actually is. Because Dick Babs really doesn't show up that much (same with Kory only really showing up in titans) in Nightwing solo content. Like how the Batgirl and Death Metal had Dick Babs while Nightwing solo still had Dick wanting to be with Bea.

But there is no denying he laid the groundwork! Im not saying he didnt. But its his own words that Dick Babs were not intended to be anything serious in the end. I personally dont think Dixon took it that seriously considering he also made Dick a womanizer lol

[Frontier]

But the main Nightwing writers who developed it further really were Devin Grayson and Tom taylor. Really, if we are to be honest with ourselves, most Dick Babs content is in Batgirl, BOP or Batfam related content and not Nightwing solo content. If you look at Nightwing's content solely for Dick Babs, it's the same three writers Dixon, Beatty Grayson and now a fourth with Tom Taylor. I think this fact is largely overlooked when it comes to how popular the ship actually is. Because Dick Babs really doesn't show up that much (same with Kory only really showing up in titans) in Nightwing solo content. Like how the Batgirl and Death Metal had Dick Babs while Nightwing solo still had Dick wanting to be with Bea.

But there is no denying he laid the groundwork! Im not saying he didnt. But its his own words that Dick Babs were not intended to be anything serious in the end. I personally dont think Dixon took it that seriously considering he also made Dick a womanizer lol

I read the Dixon run and I think he did a good job of establishing their rapport and building up to them getting together to the point where it was believable and worked. Especially compared to some of the other love interests or women in Dick's life in that book (like compare how Dick ended up viewing Helena in relation to Babs...)

It's like how some writers claim they never intended to marry off Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson but still wrote material with them that made it all the more believable that they would get hitched and work so well together as a couple.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

I read the Dixon run and I think he did a good job of establishing their rapport and building up to them getting together to the point where it was believable and worked. Especially compared to some of the other love interests or women in Dick's life in that book (like compare how Dick ended up viewing Helena in relation to Babs...)

It's like how some writers claim they never intended to marry off Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson but still wrote material with them that made it all the more believable that they would get hitched and work so well together as a couple.

Hahaha i get that! I hate when writers do that. Like how Mark Waid said that Dick Babs were his OTP or something but yet he wrote Dick Kory as a married couple twice lmao i think its mainly because writers want to keep the peace and just agree with the most popular notion at the moment. Dixon was unnecessarily cruel to Helena for no reason lmao which is why i applaud Rucka for making them the OTP in No Mans Land haha. I think the Nightwing and Huntress story is the only Devin Grayson content i can actually enjoy because it did do a good job at building them up as a potential couple. I just hate how Dixon like torpedo'd that. But part of me believes the only reason why Dixon forced Dick Babs after BOP 8 made it clear that it wasnt anything serious is because he didnt want people to ship Babs and Dinah!

[Frontier]

Hahaha i get that! I hate when writers do that. Like how Mark Waid said that Dick Babs were his OTP or something but yet he wrote Dick Kory as a married couple twice lmao i think its mainly because writers want to keep the peace and just agree with the most popular notion at the moment. Dixon was unnecessarily cruel to Helena for no reason lmao which is why i applaud Rucka for making them the OTP in No Mans Land haha. I think the Nightwing and Huntress story is the only Devin Grayson content i can actually enjoy because it did do a good job at building them up as a potential couple. I just hate how Dixon like torpedo'd that. But part of me believes the only reason why Dixon forced Dick Babs after BOP 8 made it clear that it wasnt anything serious is because he didnt want people to ship Babs and Dinah!

Wasn't Dick swinging between two different women in NML?

I know it's part of why Helena and Babs had such drama with each other in Birds of Prey.

[K7P5V]

Dick, with Superman's support, stopped Blockbuster from taking away several families' homes.

Without a doubt, truly a great scene. We also find out about Roland's condition & that he doesn't have far to go...

Dixon was unnecessarily cruel to Helena for no reason lmao which is why i applaud Rucka for making them the OTP in No Mans Land haha. I think the Nightwing and Huntress story is the only Devin Grayson content i can actually enjoy because it did do a good job at building them up as a potential couple.

OMG! Nightwing/Huntress is a most enjoyable reading experience. Highly Recommended (IMHO):

Wasn't Dick swinging between two different women in NML?

I know it's part of why Helena and Babs had such drama with each other in Birds of Prey.

I know, right?! NML is a total blast, and the Dick/Helena scene is still one of my faves from that event (XD)

[HsssH]

Not really. With Bruce, it's always just been just been background. We were always just told that he did it. We almost never saw the nitty gritty of him actually doing it.

It is usually in the background because it is boring. Once you do it few times then there isn't much excitement about it happening again, while beating up bad people is always fun.

[Felipe Silveira]

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[Restingvoice]

Wasn't Dick swinging between two different women in NML?

I know it's part of why Helena and Babs had such drama with each other in Birds of Prey.

I know, right?! NML is a total blast, and the Dick/Helena scene is still one of my faves from that event (XD)

Oh

I haven't read NML and I only know the scene where Dick found out Babs was still alive and he started a comfy massage and then Tim came in

I didn't know this

Because Dick Babs really doesn't show up that much (same with Kory only really showing up in titans) in Nightwing solo content. Like how the Batgirl and Death Metal had Dick Babs while Nightwing solo still had Dick wanting to be with Bea.

That one because it's supposed to happen one after the other, plus some timeline erasure for good measure

Joker War > Dick regains memory > Joker War is over > Batman Who Laughs attack > Death Metal where Dick Babs married > Death Metal is over and time reset to before Batman Who Laughs attack > Joker War is over > Joker War aftermath where Dick have doubts if he should continue with Bea > Broke up with Bea

The second time it happened Dick has enough time to think about it. The first time it happened, the world is ending so his mind would go straight to the girl he said he always come back to

But yeah for the bulk of Nightwing Rebirth run he's on his own, with Shawn, or with Bea. He only dated Babs at the beginning.

[Ascended]

I think the parallels between Taylor and Dixon are pretty obvious, but a lot of writers since Dixon have played with the same toys. I don't think we can overstate just how important Dixon's run was to modern Nightwing's development. It's influenced virtually every run ever since. For my money, the only other writer who's on the same level of importance to Dick is Wolfman.

But where Dixon would do an issue where Dick helps a single family get out of the cold, Taylor has Dick helping entire groups. Same problem, same approach (get them into affordable housing, etc), the only real difference is where the writers are setting the perspective. Dixon kept things on the ground, focused on what/who was right in front of Dick, Taylor is letting the smaller details slide and focusing on Dick's larger, overall goals. I think both approaches are fine and each has their good and bad points. It's just a matter of which the reader prefers. I myself would like more attention on the little things. I'm still not sure how Dick's organization is this huge threat to Blockbuster beyond the basic idea that someone with that much money could solve the problems criminals thrive off of (poverty, lack of opportunity, etc). But I see nothing "wrong" with what Taylor is doing, and a lot of comics actually take a similar "big picture" approach quite a lot of the time.

[Restingvoice]

I'm still not sure how Dick's organization is this huge threat to Blockbuster beyond the basic idea that someone with that much money could solve the problems criminals thrive off of (poverty, lack of opportunity, etc). But I see nothing "wrong" with what Taylor is doing, and a lot of comics actually take a similar "big picture" approach quite a lot of the time.

I forget what else he said during the Foundation announcement speech... cleaning police corruption, provide jobs, affordable housing, clean energy, and so on... but I remember my reaction was some of the things on his list are not something a private foundation can solve unless he has connection in the government (then I realized he does, Melinda)

[Digifiend]

Oh

I haven't read NML and I only know the scene where Dick found out Babs was still alive and he started a comfy massage and then Tim came in

I didn't know this



That one because it's supposed to happen one after the other, plus some timeline erasure for good measure

Joker War > Dick regains memory > Joker War is over > Batman Who Laughs attack > Death Metal where Dick Babs married > Death Metal is over and time reset to before Batman Who Laughs attack > Joker War is over > Joker War aftermath where Dick have doubts if he should continue with Bea > Broke up with Bea

The second time it happened Dick has enough time to think about it. The first time it happened, the world is ending so his mind would go straight to the girl he said he always come back to

But yeah for the bulk of Nightwing Rebirth run he's on his own, with Shawn, or with Bea. He only dated Babs at the beginning.

Hadn't he split up from Shawn and actually got together with Babs, just before he was shot? It's no wonder he went straight back to her after getting his memory back.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Hadn't he split up from Shawn and actually got together with Babs, just before he was shot? It's no wonder he went straight back to her after getting his memory back.

That’s the thing, dick babs weren’t really together at all before he got shot. It was one big thing up in the air! And it mostly happened in Batgirl and not mentioned much really in Nightwing solo. In Nightwing solo it was mainly Dick single or dealing with the aftermath of Shawn stuff. With Bea it hurts more knowing that Dick said he wanted to marry her and Thad this whole thing with Alfred at his grave and he still wanted to be with her when he broke up with her and then Taylor pushes Dick Babs completely disregarding Dick still being in love with Bea and not allowing for Dick to properly process the breakup the same way writers did with Shawn.

For me personally, if it doesn’t happen in Nightwing solo or Batman/robin related content, I don’t consider it something canon to his development.

[Restingvoice]

Hadn't he split up from Shawn and actually got together with Babs, just before he was shot? It's no wonder he went straight back to her after getting his memory back.

No, they had some charged moments, because they remember their mutual childhood crush, because Bruce and Selina just broke up and that reminds them of themselves, but they never really got together again. It's treated more like a star crossed thing where deep down they want it but they're also afraid because something always happen to break it (this particular thing is a thing since New 52), so they just settled to being friends, even if they slept together (not having sex) in Bruce and Selina's honeymoon suite. They were tired.