Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

I don't really get the complaint, he wanted to do a book with a wholesome feel and to him that means Dick and Babs together.

And I'll go with my previous point about runs, as much as we like continuity as fans it's largely a fictional construct. Sure the big points remain the same, like the origin and greatest hits like first meeting with the Joker or what not, but everything else? That is all pretty mutable and changes from writer to writer.
I get it, it can be a bummer when you like a particular writer's new supporting cast but it's just part and parcel with the way the genre works and holding it against the new team doesn't get you anything.

my complaint is that you can have a wholesome run without having to take digs at previous writers/editorial decisions when you yourself as a writer have done the same stuff they have done. It's the hypocrisy of the interview. Taylor chose not to use Bea in his run. He chose not to use any previous characters in his run introduced for Nightwing. But then have that dig about Kate and Maggie not getting married. Or in the interview talking about the soap opera drama, but the shoehorn Babs in here when Dick had a good thing building up with Bea? I agreed with you about the fact that writers come in and chance things because they don't wanna continue that writer's work. But if you want a pat on the back for doing the opposite, you probably shouldn't drop a previous writer's work completely and replace it with your own continuing the cycle?

[Drako]

Its a little hypocritical to say this about Dick Babs after you literally were ok with destroying his previous relationship to do it? idk, food for thought.

What relationship did Tom Taylor destroyed?

[Claude]

Also, even if Bea was interesting - which she didn't seem to be from what I read but I can't pass full judgement because I stopped reading the book, which is a fun thing to do with a run you're consistently not enjoying - she was impossible to untangle from an utterly loathed Nightwing run and plotline.

[Badou]

But yall literally did exactly what every other ba editorial writer has done with Dick and break up his previous relationships for no reason other than to push your ship? If you really wanted to do something out the box and present a positive relationship for Dick, why not continue with Bea since the ground work was already laid? Not only would that be great for interracial representation, but you will get points for continuing a relationship Dick has that rarely is ever done? You want pats on the back for pushing your ship, but like this has been a complaint for the longest time? Its a little hypocritical to say this about Dick Babs after you literally were ok with destroying his previous relationship to do it? idk, food for thought.

Bea was a worthless character that deserved to be tossed aside. She added nothing to an already awful Ric story arc and it was nauseating how they tried to act like this character was somehow a great love of Dick's life after meeting him just a few times. She was boring, adding nothing interesting to his character, and was used as a plot device to keep the whole Ric stuff going. We get you hate Dick is with Babs, but that doesn't mean Bea is somehow some great lost love of Dick's life looking back.

[Drako]

Also, even if Bea was interesting - which she didn't seem to be from what I read but I can't pass full judgement because I stopped reading the book, which is a fun thing to do with a run you're consistently not enjoying - she was impossible to untangle from an utterly loathed Nightwing run and plotline.

Yeah, and she was dating him when he was someone else. Bea was part of a chapter that needed to be closed.

[Godlike13]

my complaint is that you can have a wholesome run without having to take digs at previous writers/editorial decisions when you yourself as a writer have done the same stuff they have done. It's the hypocrisy of the interview. Taylor chose not to use Bea in his run. He chose not to use any previous characters in his run introduced for Nightwing. But then have that dig about Kate and Maggie not getting married. Or in the interview talking about the soap opera drama, but the shoehorn Babs in here when Dick had a good thing building up with Bea? I agreed with you about the fact that writers come in and chance things because they don't wanna continue that writer's work. But if you want a pat on the back for doing the opposite, you probably shouldn't drop a previous writer's work completely and replace it with your own continuing the cycle?

Jurgens ended Bea. Which honestly it was crazy that he was even allowed to put to bed his crap given how terrible he was doing. Its there was even a run that needed to be nuked, that was it. But Bea was Ric's girlfriend, and become the focal point of a universally despised run that sunk readership to new lows. There was nothing to continue there. Unless the goal is to continue to have people not read the book.

[ZuLuLu]

Yeah, and she was dating him when he was someone else. Bea was part of a chapter that needed to be closed.

Plus, Taylor was not the one who ended the relationship with Bea. Jurgens did.

I say this as someone who had no problem with Bea.

Taylor was tasked with taking over Nightwing when its sales had tanked, it is not surprising that he didn't use elements of the previous run fans had rejected.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Yeah, and she was dating him when he was someone else. Bea was part of a chapter that needed to be closed.

Bea was a worthless character that deserved to be tossed aside. She added nothing to an already awful Ric story arc and it was nauseating how they tried to act like this character was somehow a great love of Dick's life after meeting him just a few times. She was boring, adding nothing interesting to his character, and was used as a plot device to keep the whole Ric stuff going. We get you hate Dick is with Babs, but that doesn't mean Bea is somehow some great lost love of Dick's life looking back.

Jurgens ended Bea. Which honestly it was crazy that he was even allowed to put to bed his crap given how terrible he was doing. Its there was even a run that needed to be nuked, that was it. But Bea was Ric's girlfriend, and become the focal point of a universally despised run that sunk readerships to new lows. There was nothing to continue there. Unless the goal is to continue to have people not read the book.

And this is the point right here. This is why Nightwing doesnt have a side cast that is carried on. Dick had some of his worst content supported and kept in his canon and made to actually work. Why cant Bea be taken forward and made to work? Dick already admitted he loved Bea as Dick Grayson? Why couldn't we continue that and see what we can do with it instead of erasing it. Sure, it was from a terrible storyline, but so was the Dick Babs stuff from Devin Grayson. So was the Romani retcon from Devin. So was the Nightwing Year One stuff. Dick and Bea broke up because Tom Taylor's run was about Nightwing and Batgirl. IT was a complete retcon of Ric Grayson and I Can accept that. But at the same time, isnt that part of the problem with Nightwing? None of the previous bad stuff that made it into Nightwing canon has stopped readers or support before, what is so different about Bea? Or anything from the previous rebirth?

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Plus, Taylor was not the one who ended the relationship with Bea Jurgens did.

I say this as someone who had no problem with Bea.

Taylor was tasked with taking over Nightwing when it sales had tanked, it is not surprising that he didn't used elements of a previous run fans had rejected.

Yes but this did not stop writers including Taylor from taking from Devin Grayson, or Nightwing year one, ect ect.

[thwhtGuardian]

Yes but this did not stop writers including Taylor from taking from Devin Grayson, or Nightwing year one, ect ect.

Because he evidently likes those elements.

I don't understand what's hard to grasp here, comic writers take or eject just about what ever they like when they come onto a book, especially if the run before them was a critical and commercial failure. That's always been the case and always will be.

It's okay to be frustrated if you enjoyed those characters, but it isn't an actual rational critique of a new team.

[Drako]

And this is the point right here. This is why Nightwing doesnt have a side cast that is carried on. Dick had some of his worst content supported and kept in his canon and made to actually work. Why cant Bea be taken forward and made to work? Dick already admitted he loved Bea as Dick Grayson? Why couldn't we continue that and see what we can do with it instead of erasing it. Sure, it was from a terrible storyline, but so was the Dick Babs stuff from Devin Grayson. So was the Romani retcon from Devin. So was the Nightwing Year One stuff. Dick and Bea broke up because Tom Taylor's run was about Nightwing and Batgirl. IT was a complete retcon of Ric Grayson and I Can accept that. But at the same time, isnt that part of the problem with Nightwing? None of the previous bad stuff that made it into Nightwing canon has stopped readers or support before, what is so different about Bea? Or anything from the previous rebirth?

Yeah, but one is Barbara Gordon and the other is Bea.

No one cares about Bea, except you i guess.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Because he evidently likes those elements.

I don't understand what's hard to grasp here, comic writers take or eject just about what ever they like when they come onto a book, especially if the run before them was a critical and commercial failure. That's always been the case and always will be.

It's okay to be frustrated if you enjoyed those characters, but it isn't an actual rational critique of a new team.

This is true and I agree, but the critique is the fact that people want consistency in Nightwing but yet at the same time wanna pick and choose what stays and goes? Its a big complaint in the Nightwing fandom. If you want consistency, then shouldnt you atleast attempt to keep the best parts of the last run and keep it going? to provide synergy and right some of the wrongs?

Yeah, but one is Barbara Gordon and the other is Bea.

No one cares about Bea, except you i guess.

I dont even know how to respond to this.

[thwhtGuardian]

This is true and I agree, but the critique is the fact that people want consistency in Nightwing but yet at the same time wanna pick and choose what stays and goes? Its a big complaint in the Nightwing fandom. If you want consistency, then shouldnt you atleast attempt to keep the best parts of the last run and keep it going? to provide synergy and right some of the wrongs?

I dont even know how to respond to this.

I don't think anyone considered the elements that you're talking about to be important. I dropped it pretty early, but by almost all accounts it was a pretty dire run.

[Godlike13]

And this is the point right here. This is why Nightwing doesnt have a side cast that is carried on. Dick had some of his worst content supported and kept in his canon and made to actually work. Why cant Bea be taken forward and made to work? Dick already admitted he loved Bea as Dick Grayson? Why couldn't we continue that and see what we can do with it instead of erasing it. Sure, it was from a terrible storyline, but so was the Dick Babs stuff from Devin Grayson. So was the Romani retcon from Devin. So was the Nightwing Year One stuff. Dick and Bea broke up because Tom Taylor's run was about Nightwing and Batgirl. IT was a complete retcon of Ric Grayson and I Can accept that. But at the same time, isnt that part of the problem with Nightwing? None of the previous bad stuff that made it into Nightwing canon has stopped readers or support before, what is so different about Bea? Or anything from the previous rebirth?

Dick didn't even know Bea as Dick Grayson. Despite Jurgans nonsense. Again, she became the focal point of a run that was driving readers away. Devin Grayson's work wasn't continued, Nightwing Year One isn't particularly referenced, and the Ric run was far more reviled and recent then either. There is no sense in trying to continue something that was proven detrimental. Ideally you want writers to carry on the stuff of worth. Ditching the **** and expanding on the things that they think worked. Filtering the mythos. Keeping the good, letting go of the bad. Unfortunately they too often other let go of everything but that doesn't mean they should continue everything either. They have to have an awareness of what to continue and what not too, otherwise you end of with years of Ric.

Ric is a instance where a new writer is suppose to go scorched earth. They should have done it 6 issues in, but instead they let writers who didn't care and had no awareness expand on it for 2 years. Tanking his book and threating the viability of the character. You can't seriously be asking why we aren't getting more Ric.

[Felipe Silveira]

Yes, ignore what came before, this is superhero comic book, who cares about chronology right. And so Nightwing remains a shitty character with no outstanding history, no villain or supporting relevant to it, they are all forgotten or become jobbers in other comics, like Raptor and Shrike.