Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[Zagre]

Yeah I just see the BWLs gimp suit

lol yeah. Now I'm imagining it's literally the same outfit, like it's just some weird fetish jacket Bruce has in his office and/or Wayne Manor in every universe.

You know, for emergencies. Break the glass in case you turn evil.

I think in general his outfit has more to do with fetishistic vampire tropes than anything else.

[Lal]

That's kind of how he was written often in the past years (even if not as over the top).
I mean honestly he looks hardly ever compent in Bat-family crossovers.

- Joker War had him and Tim get stomped by a brainwashed Dick.
- Nightwing Annual, is him needing Dick's help to clear up his name (which he should habe been easily capable of doing on his own)
- In Urban Legends he needs in the end the rest of the Batfamily to come in for rescue
- and I can probaly find several other examples of him needing to be rescued (or beaten up) by other Batfamily members or been written as comic relief character

The only example in recent history of him an another Batfamily member really working on a case togther with out Jason being used to make the other look better was the team up of him and Dick in Gotham Nights.

I agree that proping up one character on cost of another one (unless the other gets also his moment to shine) is not a good way to write comics. But Jason has been so often on the other side of this, that I think it is ok for once when the others to look like idiots.

Dick working with Jason to clear his name wasn't because Jason was unable to do so, but seemed more like big brother protectiveness and bonding time, and even if Jason didn't shine in that issue, he definitely wasn't downplayed as an idiot or incompetent. As for UL, while I had some issues with Jason's sory, overall it wasn't a bad story, and Jason wasn't portrayed poorly as an incompetent Buffon. Ever since IF, Jason wasn't the batfamily punching bag or portrayed badly in other books.

Actually, if we look at the events in TFZ, it was mostly there that Jason was beaten by more or less everyone around him, up until this issue. It's a weird storytelling choice to make Jason appear competent by winning against his family members after losing to villains left and right.
It's possible the recent TFZ issue is a course correction, and him beating down competent characters is the fastest way to make him seem badass again, but it's also the cheapest way to prop him up, and it was done in really poor taste.
I'm pretty sure we'll see more fights in the future, and I can imagine how annoying it will be when Dick or Tim stomps him, and Jason will be portrayed as the angry and stupid ex-Robin that will always lose because of his temper. And that's without even factoring in the edgy commentary that could be added, like saying that Alfred never trusted Jason with his money, but did trust Dick, or reminding us again how Jason is the greatest failure and will never live up to the others' standards and achievements.

Constant regression and poor characteristics of their favorites are not things most fans want to see, and the fight in TFZ is exactly that, and will probobly lead to only more of that.

[Badou]

Wasn't it that Bendis Leviathan series from a few years ago where Jason beat Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Manhunter, and maybe someone else all at once? These things tend to just happen sometimes. It isn't great writing, and it happens with Jason maybe a bit more than average, but it is what it is. He's the kind of character were some writers want to write him as the ultimate loan badass where he takes on everyone. Sacrificing other characters to make someone look better isn't the best way to write comics, but I don't think you can get too worked up over it. I'm sure some issue of something will come out where it is flipped and Jason is the one being sacrificed instead. Maybe because it feels like Dick is the biggest sacrificial lamb at DC at times that I've just gotten used to it, lol.

[Aahz]

Dick working with Jason to clear his name wasn't because Jason was unable to do so, but seemed more like big brother protectiveness and bonding time, and even if Jason didn't shine in that issue, he definitely wasn't downplayed as an idiot or incompetent.

But in the end Dick was portrait as the awesome big brother, and Jason didn't really got anything out of it.

Ever since IF, Jason wasn't the batfamily punching bag or portrayed badly in other books.

He hasn't really appeared much in Batfamly books since IF.

[Rac7d*]

Can we stop with "boring Robin", "best Robin" and similar things? It sounds stupid and I can't imagine any of these characters saying such things.

To late it’s been spoken into cannon

[Aahz]

I can imagine how annoying it will be when Dick or Tim stomps him, and Jason will be portrayed as the angry and stupid ex-Robin that will always lose because of his temper. And that's without even factoring in the edgy commentary that could be added, like saying that Alfred never trusted Jason with his money, but did trust Dick, or reminding us again how Jason is the greatest failure and will never live up to the others' standards and achievements.

I would claim that we had stuff like that allready on different occasions ...

[Fergus]

As one of these fans I think something like this was way over due (even if Rosenberg might have gone a little to far here), he gets used so often to make other Batfamily members look good, and gets so rarely the opportunity to show of around them.

And hey he is the guy with mystic ninja powers, who actually wears somewhat effective armor (including head protection) and is (at least according to the semioffical stats) several weight classes above them.

What is the readership of TFZ?

[Frontier]

Wasn't it that Bendis Leviathan series from a few years ago where Jason beat Batman, Robin, Green Arrow, Plastic Man, Manhunter, and maybe someone else all at once? These things tend to just happen sometimes. It isn't great writing, and it happens with Jason maybe a bit more than average, but it is what it is. He's the kind of character were some writers want to write him as the ultimate loan badass where he takes on everyone. Sacrificing other characters to make someone look better isn't the best way to write comics, but I don't think you can get too worked up over it. I'm sure some issue of something will come out where it is flipped and Jason is the one being sacrificed instead. Maybe because it feels like Dick is the biggest sacrificial lamb at DC at times that I've just gotten used to it, lol.

And remember when Harley managed to elude the Trinity...or all the times Batman gets to be Batman...man, people in Gotham are just built differently.

[Zaresh]

What is the readership of TFZ?

It's hard to tell nowadays. There're no well throrough sales charts, most are fragmented ones, or estimations based on a small group of shops as far as I know (and I'm just another fan). It's most probably not on the top 50 of sellers, but that's not saying much. You usually find people reviewing and comenting the new issue each month in places like reddit; they're few, but they're there. So there's that. I guess it's around the 100th or a bit lower.

[Claude]

And remember when Harley managed to elude the Trinity...or all the times Batman gets to be Batman...man, people in Gotham are just built differently.

Yeah - this is why I don't mind Taylor writing Dick getting a knock during a fight, or taking advantage of the assistance of his allies... It feels like such a course correction to the "I like this character, therefore they could beat up every other character - by themselves or all at once - and any time they didn't it's because they were holding back" style of comics-writing. Which is always lame.

It's hard to begrudge Jason in this instance, because he doesn't get a lot of wins in these things, but... Its a trope I could live without.

[Felipe Silveira]

That's why I don't even care about it. When they announced the Nightwing Annual would be with Jason I was worried that the discussion would fall into the skill level topic. Luckily it didn't happen, the editing is good and Jason has his moment stopping a plane with a batmobile. Now just go to the rating sites and see the same people who rate anything from Tom Taylor, female writers, Nightwing, Robin(Tim) and Batgirls celebrating. Rosenberg decided to embrace these people, it's his problem, I'll ignore anything he writes.

[Frontier]

Yeah - this is why I don't mind Taylor writing Dick getting a knock during a fight, or taking advantage of the assistance of his allies... It feels like such a course correction to the "I like this character, therefore they could beat up every other character - by themselves or all at once - and any time they didn't it's because they were holding back" style of comics-writing. Which is always lame.

It's hard to begrudge Jason in this instance, because he doesn't get a lot of wins in these things, but... Its a trope I could live without.

I mean, I think it's fine if it's against villains because you want to see your heroes being competent and getting the best of villains without needing constant help.

It's when you pit them against other heroes that it gets dicey.

[Godlike13]

Yeah - this is why I don't mind Taylor writing Dick getting a knock during a fight, or taking advantage of the assistance of his allies... It feels like such a course correction to the "I like this character, therefore they could beat up every other character - by themselves or all at once - and any time they didn't it's because they were holding back" style of comics-writing. Which is always lame.

It's hard to begrudge Jason in this instance, because he doesn't get a lot of wins in these things, but... Its a trope I could live without.

Ya, measuring sticking is an abused technique that’s rather dated. Readers are more mature these days that it just reads as too obvious and tropey, and at the end of the day that’s not what readers are going to get truly invested in. I’ve said this before but it’s the reasons why we want to see a character win that’s going to make readers stick around. The goal shouldn’t be trying to tell readers how this character is awesome, the goal should be trying to convince readers to be the ones telling how that character is awesome.

[Rac7d*]

I really have enjoyed this season of YJ but I am concerned. I looked forward to the Nightwing arc most of all and it’s nearing the end. We still have a few other storylines to continue through, and they all might tie together. It looks like this Nightwing is sacrifice solo time to be ensemble time. Even when Rocket and Zatanna got poor portions I still saw their wants, struggles and a hopeful step forward. Dick isn’t thinking about himself he’s trying to save his friend. One dear to him but the relation isn’t exactly Wally level either. We don’t know becuase we’re not getting into his head to know what he’s feeling.

I can understand why we’re not seeing him talk to his family, it’s hard to include Bruce without him having to live up to who he is,solving every situation. The other bat members tend to be too resourceful as well, I can understand why they have been held back. Their world and storylines made bookmarks for the every moving forward timeline

Is that the cost of him being on a team like this, I got more reflection from Dick in the bow hunter securiry episode (one of my favorites) I would have loved a another street crime/ mystery if that gave him more opportunity to flex. Every other arc, minus rocket kept their hero in a realm where they could best work.
I don’t think show runner know or care how popular Nightwing is. And that’s fair, they should tell the story they want. But a strong focused arc week to week on him would have got the show trending and it’s definitely in jeorody right now under Zazlav rule.

I don’t have much hope for dick in the next few episodes he has nothing to be resolved, he’s just leading this team, the heavy lifting will be from Connor and Megan for the finale.

[InfamousBG]

Someone explain to me why this is my favorite book (DC or Marvel) out of like 50 books I get a month.

I love it. Writing, art, everything.

But why?