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  1. #1921
    Extraordinary Member thwhtGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K7P5V View Post
    Indeed. Certainly wouldn't be the first time, though...

    What issue was this?
    Looking for a friendly place to discuss comic books? Try The Classic Comics Forum!

  2. #1922
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess I'm not surprised the run is selling well because people like to consume what Taylor writes, but I feel like we should be getting more out of a Nightwing book.
    It's a fair point, but also as has become apparent on this thread many times, is that what people feel they should be getting out of a Nightwing book varies wildly from person to person!

    I've never seen the appeal of Tomasi's run, for instance - which is held up by many as the pinnacle of the character's solo. It's so invested in making Nightwing come off as Batman's peer that it doesn't hugely differentiate the two, Tomasi has Dick fights Talia and Two-Face and Ra's and holds his own, but that just leaves him "as good as Batman" rather than "different from Batman". And he's so desperate for the book to come off youthful that Dick can't get even say "get lunch" - it has to be Middle Aged To Young Person google-translated to "grab some chow", which is... irritating.

    Whereas Taylor's story about Dick who's mostly focussing on this one thing, keeping it going and shrugging off threats to it rather than foiling a different villain each week feels like a different flavour of storytelling. And having both Dick and Bruce involved in Jon's life when Clark is away, but in their very different ways, is a great way of highlighting the differences without being too direct about it.

    Can see it not being everyone's cup of tea, though. And I agree with others - it's a big black mark against it that on-panel Dick doesn't seem to have even tried to find Heartless. (And that he had to be fetched to help Jon, after Clark asked him to keep an eye, rather than deliberately involving himself.)

  3. #1923
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    Quote Originally Posted by thwhtGuardian View Post
    What issue was this?
    Robin Vol. 2#10

  4. #1924
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dietrich View Post
    I does have Babs as a co-star since her solo ended so I'm guessing some of her fans might be pulling Nightwing. Then there's fans like myself and others here who might have issues with the run but don't wish to drop it.

    Like someone else said, this forum isn't representative of the Nightwing fandom. Most other places, I see mostly positives about this run. A lot of people are loving it
    Doesn't Babs have the Batgirls book? She's not as active as Cass and Steph but she's effectively the third main character.

    I feel like Taylor is using Babs a bit as a crutch to just resolve a lot of Dicks' problems in this run rather than have him deal with it himself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Claude View Post
    It's a fair point, but also as has become apparent on this thread many times, is that what people feel they should be getting out of a Nightwing book varies wildly from person to person!

    I've never seen the appeal of Tomasi's run, for instance - which is held up by many as the pinnacle of the character's solo. It's so invested in making Nightwing come off as Batman's peer that it doesn't hugely differentiate the two, Tomasi has Dick fights Talia and Two-Face and Ra's and holds his own, but that just leaves him "as good as Batman" rather than "different from Batman". And he's so desperate for the book to come off youthful that Dick can't get even say "get lunch" - it has to be Middle Aged To Young Person google-translated to "grab some chow", which is... irritating.

    Whereas Taylor's story about Dick who's mostly focussing on this one thing, keeping it going and shrugging off threats to it rather than foiling a different villain each week feels like a different flavour of storytelling. And having both Dick and Bruce involved in Jon's life when Clark is away, but in their very different ways, is a great way of highlighting the differences without being too direct about it.

    Can see it not being everyone's cup of tea, though. And I agree with others - it's a big black mark against it that on-panel Dick doesn't seem to have even tried to find Heartless. (And that he had to be fetched to help Jon, after Clark asked him to keep an eye, rather than deliberately involving himself.)
    I thought Tomasi's run was solid, maybe not exceptional, and I feel like he played off Dick with Talia and Harvey well while still making Nightwing feel like Nightwing...but that's just me.

    I also enjoyed Seeley's run and feel like that had a better balance of tone and stakes.

  5. #1925
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I thought Tomasi's run was solid, maybe not exceptional
    The thing as the runs in the 5 years before Thomasi were all pretty terrible.

  6. #1926
    Mighty Member Felipe Silveira's Avatar
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    Tomasi had the job of preparing the character to be Batman. Nightwing had been around for 2 years, maybe more, being bullied by the editorial. Tomasi showed all sides of Dick, he is fun but serious when needed and very mature. Unfortunately Didio and Johns destroyed everything Dixon and Grayson built, so Tomasi didn't have Bludhaven or his villains (Tarantula died an empty death at the hands of Gail Simone). Two-Face, who since Tim has always had a connection with the Robins, and Talia, who Dick is always suspicious of (he's team Selina) were good choices.
    Unfortunately in Brazil this run never came out complete, I ask Panini but she just responds "it's difficult", while releasing 10 Marvel C-list comics in hardcover.

  7. #1927
    Extraordinary Member Drako's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe Silveira View Post
    Tomasi had the job of preparing the character to be Batman. Nightwing had been around for 2 years, maybe more, being bullied by the editorial. Tomasi showed all sides of Dick, he is fun but serious when needed and very mature. Unfortunately Didio and Johns destroyed everything Dixon and Grayson built, so Tomasi didn't have Bludhaven or his villains (Tarantula died an empty death at the hands of Gail Simone). Two-Face, who since Tim has always had a connection with the Robins, and Talia, who Dick is always suspicious of (he's team Selina) were good choices.
    Unfortunately in Brazil this run never came out complete, I ask Panini but she just responds "it's difficult", while releasing 10 Marvel C-list comics in hardcover.
    Buy the american version on amazon.
    "Nightwing by Peter Tomasi"

    I think it's whole run, but i'm too lazy to check right now.
    The price is kinda steep from a comic book in our reality, but i'm trying to get some backlog of his books in english.

    I bought Taylor's first volume in english and in portuguese, the american version is much better.
    DC: Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Yara Flor, Titans

    Some of my favorite Mangas: One Piece, Slam Dunk, Fullmetal Alchemist, HunterXHunter, Vinland Saga, Monster, Berserk, Vagabond.
    Current reading: Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, Spy X Family, Kaiju Nș8, Blue Lock, Dandadan.

  8. #1928
    Mighty Member Felipe Silveira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    I bought Taylor's first volume in english and in portuguese, the american version is much better.
    No need to compare with the American edition, compare with other Brazilian editions in the same format. Daredevil is much better, better quality paper and print.

  9. #1929
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe Silveira View Post
    Unfortunately Didio and Johns destroyed everything Dixon and Grayson built,
    I would actually claim that most of it was allready destroyed half way through Graysons run.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe Silveira View Post
    Two-Face, who since Tim has always had a connection with the Robins,
    That goes actually back to Jason.

  10. #1930
    Mighty Member Felipe Silveira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    I would actually claim that most of it was allready destroyed half way through Graysons run.
    I disagree.
    I think Grayson has been badly hurt by notable editorial changes. The whole DC vibe changed, and the DC universe started to crumble there. I like Grayson's run for the most part, even the Tarantula controversy I see as a downfall story. There were moments that I don't like but this is post Wargames (which shows DC's problems at the time), although I like Dick training Rose (this made me buy Teen Titans after Infinite Crisis, but I only bought two issues, because it was so bad).
    The ending, rushed it is true, closes. Dick proposes to Barbara and "frees" Rose from Slade's influence. But here comes 2 bombs, the one that explodes Bludhaven and Annual 2.
    1 years later, the DC universe is worse than before..... but I have fun with Jason with tentacles.

  11. #1931
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Not sure what there is to disagree with. She blew up his home/base, killed off Blockbuster, ended his cop gig, broke up him and Babs, and pretty much bottomed him out. By the time they blew up Bludhaven there wasn’t anything left there anyway. The idea behind her run was to do a Born Again, tear it all down then eventually build him back up, but the building never came as she seem to get lost in addition to all the roadblocks they kept tossing at her.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 06-22-2022 at 01:03 PM.

  12. #1932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felipe Silveira View Post
    I disagree.
    I think Grayson has been badly hurt by notable editorial changes. The whole DC vibe changed, and the DC universe started to crumble there. I like Grayson's run for the most part, even the Tarantula controversy I see as a downfall story. There were moments that I don't like but this is post Wargames (which shows DC's problems at the time), although I like Dick training Rose (this made me buy Teen Titans after Infinite Crisis, but I only bought two issues, because it was so bad).
    I think the the run derailed when she killed of Blockbuster and most of Dicks Supporting cast.

    And that Deathstroke let Dick train Rose (instead of exposing who he was or just killing him) made form what I remember of that story not really much sense.

  13. #1933
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Why did she killed most of the supporting cast and exposing his identity anyway? Because it's not for Infinite Crisis. She didn't know Didio wanted him to be killed off (she wanted Dick and Babs to be engaged and move from there)

  14. #1934

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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Not sure what there is to disagree with. She blew up his home/base, killed off Blockbuster, ended his cop gig, broke up him and Babs, and pretty much bottomed him out. By the time they blew up Bludhaven there wasn’t anything left there anyway. The idea behind her run was to do a Born Again, tear it all down then eventually build him back up, but the building never came as she seem to get lost in addition to all the roadblocks they kept tossing at her.
    Devin GRayson literally did what she did because in her words editorial could care less! I think that's the most disheartening part about her run. That DC cared so little about Nightwing as a character they didnt care what she did. Especially since they were gonna kill him anyway at the time.

  15. #1935

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    The Floppy sales seem also to be extremly strong. The run seems to do much better than any other since flashpoint (and likely also even from before that).

    Even if I don't really understand why.
    Nightwing Rebirth actually was pulling some pretty decent, if not better, numbers than Taylor. Nightwing kinda always sells in the 20-40k range depending. Seeley's Nightwing did just as well as Taylor is currently doing. Funnily enough, Dixon also sold in the same area lol its largely the reason why Nightwing is a comparison for how well DC Comics is doing. If youre doing better than Nightwing, then youre a top seller and on your way to the A-List treatment. IF youre doing worse than Nightwing then there is a problem. I think Dixon said Nightwing was considered a guarantee or something, so DC likes to keep the book around for numbers. Nightwing has a super dedicated comic book fanbase thats for sure.

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