Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[Rac7d*]

That's not what I had a problem with so much as it being Raquel specifically.

Why not her ?

[Rac7d*]

I mean.... which female character is he currently teamed with? That's where it gets awkward in some runs.... Starfire and Batgirl aren't around, so he hooks up with whatever random girl he's currently teamed with.

Yo don’t call them random. He and Raquel were friends, so they dated, they Proably had a physical attraction and then it fizzled. She is not random. Zatanna was Proably his first gf at age 13. They flirted, he was a support pillar when she lost her father. They stayed good friends to present. Kinda like how Bruce stayed good friends with Zatanna in the comics. Thease women are not random their is base of friendship and trust among them.

[Ascended]

I doubt it was just three women .

I'd say probably not, no, but like my old lit analysis professor said, the only evidence is on the page (or screen in this case). So until we hear about more women, it's just the three.

Yeah, but I'm talking from the perspective of Rocket as a character. Take that out and nothing is really lost, compared to the Zatanna relationship with actual build up, but Rocket barely even being a character in the show is a whole 'nother issue that even this season didn't quite rectify.

Oh yeah, it does nothing for Rocket. But Rocket's episodes weren't really about Rocket at all so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised.

I know there are Chalant shippers desperately holding onto the idea that he and Babs aren't together this season.

There's always Nightwing fans hoping that he's *not* with either Babs or Kori, just to prevent the other side of that shipping war from getting what they want. This is why I support the idea of a new love interest, like Power Girl. Fans are simply too divided on Babs/Kori. I don't recall anything this season that says he and Babs are still together but I assume we'll hear *something* before the end.

[Frontier]

Why not her ?

Because it hasn't really informed the characters and their relationships at all and seems pretty incidental and pointless. Especially when she was shown crushing on Kaldur.

Yo don’t call them random. He and Raquel were friends, so they dated, they Proably had a physical attraction and then it fizzled. She is not random. Zatanna was Proably his first gf at age 13. They flirted, he was a support pillar when she lost her father. They stayed good friends to present. Kinda like how Bruce stayed good friends with Zatanna in the comics. Thease women are not random their is base of friendship and trust among them.

Well, they were friends in the sense that they like just met on the Team.

I'd say probably not, no, but like my old lit analysis professor said, the only evidence is on the page (or screen in this case). So until we hear about more women, it's just the three.

And he and Babs were friends with benefits until going official...

Oh yeah, it does nothing for Rocket. But Rocket's episodes weren't really about Rocket at all so I suppose we shouldn't be surprised.

Same with Zatanna. I mean, Kaldur's arc was more about Atlantis than him, but he still got more than they got.

There's always Nightwing fans hoping that he's *not* with either Babs or Kori, just to prevent the other side of that shipping war from getting what they want. This is why I support the idea of a new love interest, like Power Girl. Fans are simply too divided on Babs/Kori. I don't recall anything this season that says he and Babs are still together but I assume we'll hear *something* before the end.

To be honest people would probably complain about building up a Power Girl relationship rather than re-establishing their preferred ship.

[WonderNight]

The rocket relationship is there to show history been the team and characters, it's not that serious. They did the same thing with artmeis boyfriend being Barbara's ex.

It's must be because it's nightwing people are too serious about it. Dick and rocket were horny teens that spend a lot of time together, and are both hot!

The real question is why wouldn't they hook up?

And same nightwing fans just don't really care about his ship's with babs or starfire, and perfer dicks other dynamics or potential dynamics with other women!

It not always about babs or kory.

[Badou]

The Rocket relationship mention just felt too random. Like they had barely any interaction previously, and she was an ex of one of his closest friends. I dunno. I could have done without it but it is whatever. I feel like it is a minor example of a larger Greg Weisman problem where he has too many ideas for characters and not enough screen time to showcase them. I feel like the show would have been better if it had a much narrower focus, closer to season 1, but I get that Greg Weisman was more interested in created this vast collection of stories and characters in his own DC universe. That being said I still generally like his voice for Dick in the show even if I haven't watched any of season 4 beyond some clips, haha.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

The rocket relationship is there to show history been the team and characters, it's not that serious. They did the same thing with artmeis boyfriend being Barbara's ex.

It's must be because it's nightwing people are too serious about it. Dick and rocket were horny teens that spend a lot of time together, and are both hot!

The real question is why wouldn't they hook up?

And same nightwing fans just don't really care about his ship's with babs or starfire, and perfer dicks other dynamics or potential dynamics with other women!

It not always about babs or kory.

Eh, ITs one of the only things left to talk about with Dick which is why it gets so much conversation. The writers know this which is why its so heavily written about in his mythos. IF Dick had more stories like Batman or Flash, the narrative would surely be different. Kory and Babs shippers are just the loudest in the bunch,Dick doesn't have a permanent love interest (yet) so when that happens, im sure itll subside much like it has for Batman now that Catwoman seems to be finally pushed as his one and only.

To be honest people would probably complain about building up a Power Girl relationship rather than re-establishing their preferred ship.

TBH, for me, I think if they were to give Dick a new love interest, it should be a new character all together or one with little history with any other. Because it's easiest this way to avoid problems with the other character's canon! For me, I think Dick needs to be with a character who is in charge of their on franchise. Not a side character because side characters will ALWAYS be retconned/driven back to the main character. Now Dick is part of a franchise where his mythos as Nightwing/Agent 37 or whomever is essential to the story. He cant be replaced. I would want something like Storm and Black Panther. It wont be perfect, but itll be better than Dick always being a sidekick type character and only dating other side characters.

The Rocket relationship mention just felt too random. Like they had barely any interaction previously, and she was an ex of one of his closest friends. I dunno. I could have done without it but it is whatever. I feel like it is a minor example of a larger Greg Weisman problem where he has too many ideas for characters and not enough screen time to showcase them. I feel like the show would have been better if it had a much narrower focus, closer to season 1, but I get that Greg Weisman was more interested in created this vast collection of stories and characters in his own DC universe. That being said I still generally like his voice for Dick in the show even if I haven't watched any of season 4 beyond some clips, haha.

I agree. This is the same reason I found myself dumbfounded by Dick Babs in season 3 because it came out of nowhere lol. When I over the ask Gregs, barely any of them make sense with the YJ canon. IT does seem like he wants to do too much in a little space. I think I read somewhere he had the same problem with his Gargoyles stuff as well. It makes me really miss season 1.

[Frontier]

The rocket relationship is there to show history been the team and characters, it's not that serious. They did the same thing with artmeis boyfriend being Barbara's ex.

It's must be because it's nightwing people are too serious about it. Dick and rocket were horny teens that spend a lot of time together, and are both hot!

The real question is why wouldn't they hook up?

And same nightwing fans just don't really care about his ship's with babs or starfire, and perfer dicks other dynamics or potential dynamics with other women!

It not always about babs or kory.

Bard at least had a source in the comics (and it wouldn't be the first time the show relied on comic history to accentuate plot developments).

I agree. This is the same reason I found myself dumbfounded by Dick Babs in season 3 because it came out of nowhere lol. When I over the ask Gregs, barely any of them make sense with the YJ canon. IT does seem like he wants to do too much in a little space. I think I read somewhere he had the same problem with his Gargoyles stuff as well. It makes me really miss season 1.

Babs at least had some buildup because she was shown of jealous of the attention he was showing another girl in season 1 and we got the last arc in the comic building up their relationship...but like a lot of things in the tie-in comic, it probably would have helped to have actually had it in the show.

[marhawkman]

Well, they were friends in the sense that they like just met on the Team.

Yeah, and Dick is friends with all of his team mates. So... assuming they'll hook up just because they were friends? um.....

The rocket relationship is there to show history been the team and characters, it's not that serious. They did the same thing with artmeis boyfriend being Barbara's ex.

It's must be because it's nightwing people are too serious about it. Dick and rocket were horny teens that spend a lot of time together, and are both hot!

The real question is why wouldn't they hook up?

And same nightwing fans just don't really care about his ship's with babs or starfire, and perfer dicks other dynamics or potential dynamics with other women!

It not always about babs or kory.

So, let's talk about why Cheyenne Freemont should be Dick's girlfriend.

[Rac7d*]

Yeah, and Dick is friends with all of his team mates. So... assuming they'll hook up just because they were friends? um.....
So, let's talk about why Cheyenne Freemont should be Dick's girlfriend.

She wants nothing to do with the superhero world
So no

[Frontier]

Does Cheyenne count as a joke love interest or am I just thinking of the quality of that run...

[Rac7d*]

Does Cheyenne count as a joke love interest or am I just thinking of the quality of that run...

The quality that ceased when Jason mutated into a blob tentacle monstrosity

[Vordan]

The Rocket relationship mention just felt too random. Like they had barely any interaction previously, and she was an ex of one of his closest friends. I dunno. I could have done without it but it is whatever. I feel like it is a minor example of a larger Greg Weisman problem where he has too many ideas for characters and not enough screen time to showcase them. I feel like the show would have been better if it had a much narrower focus, closer to season 1, but I get that Greg Weisman was more interested in created this vast collection of stories and characters in his own DC universe. That being said I still generally like his voice for Dick in the show even if I haven't watched any of season 4 beyond some clips, haha.

The big problem is pretty much the entire post S1 show operates under the assumption that you already are a big DC fan. Why/How did Dick leave Robin to become Nightwing? How/Why are he and Babs together? Basic stuff like that isn’t shown because the show relies on the audience already being fans who know that’s “supposed” to happen and therefore Weisman doesn’t need to actually show it in the show. But it ends up hurting the show because a bunch of major events happen off screen that we never get to see.

[Ascended]

And he and Babs were friends with benefits until going official...

Still just three women.

I don't doubt that Dick has been....friendlier.....with more girls than that. But we know of three, and anything else is conjecture. I'm just pointing that out.

Same with Zatanna. I mean, Kaldur's arc was more about Atlantis than him, but he still got more than they got.

I definitely wish most arcs were focused a little tighter on who they're supposed to be about, hard as that'd be with the sprawling narratives we're dealing with now. But at least Zee and Kaldur and the rest got to enter new phases in their individual journeys, found some closure, and got to flesh out their particular settings and mythos. Their arcs might not have focused on them completely but they were still the main players, and the stories largely took place in and around their respective homes/locations, with people and threats directly concerning them. Rocket got a very small taste of that. But beyond accepting her son for what he is? Nothing. The story doesn't take place in Dakota so the city and her cast (friends, family, villains, etc) doesn't get fleshed out. Rocket's motivations, life, and past are (outside of her son), barely touched on. She loses a whole episode so a dude from a completely different cartoon can steal the spotlight. Icon isn't even *mentioned* I don't think. Granted, Rocket's been a non-factor in the show so there's not much to build on, but hot damn I feel like they did her dirty.

To be honest people would probably complain about building up a Power Girl relationship rather than re-establishing their preferred ship.

Oh people will complain no matter what. But I think there's more value in building up a new love interest than in regurgitating the same old dynamic with the same old characters. Plus, as long as DC wants Babs to headline a title there will be issues with her and Dick. If Nightwing's writer doesn't have full control of Dick's love interest, that kneecaps what the writer can do and it'll result in more of what we've had for years; a relationship that can't get off the ground, much less stay in the air, in any meaningful way. Same goes for whoever is writing Babs, or Kori. The love interest is too big a role among the supporting cast for the writer to not have full control of it.

People will bitch at first, but quite frankly I think we're all better off if we get out of the Babs-Dick-Kori cycle. Fans will be better off, the characters will be better off.

[Frontier]

Still just three women.

I don't doubt that Dick has been....friendlier.....with more girls than that. But we know of three, and anything else is conjecture. I'm just pointing that out

And Bette...making four .

I definitely wish most arcs were focused a little tighter on who they're supposed to be about, hard as that'd be with the sprawling narratives we're dealing with now. But at least Zee and Kaldur and the rest got to enter new phases in their individual journeys, found some closure, and got to flesh out their particular settings and mythos. Their arcs might not have focused on them completely but they were still the main players, and the stories largely took place in and around their respective homes/locations, with people and threats directly concerning them. Rocket got a very small taste of that. But beyond accepting her son for what he is? Nothing. The story doesn't take place in Dakota so the city and her cast (friends, family, villains, etc) doesn't get fleshed out. Rocket's motivations, life, and past are (outside of her son), barely touched on. She loses a whole episode so a dude from a completely different cartoon can steal the spotlight. Icon isn't even *mentioned* I don't think. Granted, Rocket's been a non-factor in the show so there's not much to build on, but hot damn I feel like they did her dirty.

Zatanna's arc still basically revolved around her father. Now, we've finally moved past that, but I'm not sure if they'll do much else with her other than teaming-up with Dick. And I would argue Zee was definitively not the main player in her arc because she took a backseat to all the other magic goings on and her protege's, whether by intention or execution.

I think the fact that we got to see her son, ex-husband, and her grappling that with her Superhero life is something even if it wasn't focused on much. Compared to Zatanna who we only saw with protege's and focused, as always, on freeing her dad, it felt particularly revealing.

Kaldur probably got it better than both of them even if his stuff got drowned out by Atlantean politics.

Oh people will complain no matter what. But I think there's more value in building up a new love interest than in regurgitating the same old dynamic with the same old characters. Plus, as long as DC wants Babs to headline a title there will be issues with her and Dick. If Nightwing's writer doesn't have full control of Dick's love interest, that kneecaps what the writer can do and it'll result in more of what we've had for years; a relationship that can't get off the ground, much less stay in the air, in any meaningful way. Same goes for whoever is writing Babs, or Kori. The love interest is too big a role among the supporting cast for the writer to not have full control of it.

People will bitch at first, but quite frankly I think we're all better off if we get out of the Babs-Dick-Kori cycle. Fans will be better off, the characters will be better off.

I feel like the only success someone has with building up a new love interest is with a newer character with less relationship history. Seeley tried to make Shawn happen but that didn't take off.