Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[marhawkman]

I feel like the only success someone has with building up a new love interest is with a newer character with less relationship history. Seeley tried to make Shawn happen but that didn't take off.

Cheyenne was pretty serious.. until she decided that, despite having superpowers(she's telekinetic) she wanted to avoid super hero stuff. Most surreal comic book moment ever.... a person with superpowers decided that non-powered people were better suited for being superheroes.

[Rac7d*]

The big problem is pretty much the entire post S1 show operates under the assumption that you already are a big DC fan. Why/How did Dick leave Robin to become Nightwing? How/Why are he and Babs together? Basic stuff like that isn’t shown because the show relies on the audience already being fans who know that’s “supposed” to happen and therefore Weisman doesn’t need to actually show it in the show. But it ends up hurting the show because a bunch of major events happen off screen that we never get to see.

No that’s all answered in the comics the two pages that reveal dick dated Bette Zatanna and Raquel and are all still friends has made rounds here over the last ten years. I’m more suprised by anyone posting here and not knowing

[Frontier]

No that’s all answered in the comics the two pages that reveal dick dated Bette Zatanna and Raquel and are all still friends has made rounds here over the last ten years. I’m more suprised by anyone posting here and not knowing

Honestly I don't blame anyone for giving the show flack for something they had to read the tie-in comic for.

Like, I think it's cool the tie-in comic was so story significant and I enjoyed the comic, but on some level it shows something lacking in the show on a standalone level (and also that it has too much going on).

[Rac7d*]

Honestly I don't blame anyone for giving the show flack for something they had to read the tie-in comic for.

Like, I think it's cool the tie-in comic was so story significant and I enjoyed the comic, but on some level it shows something lacking in the show on a standalone level (and also that it has too much going on).

There are only so many episodes in a season. I appreciate them trying to make every second of it count. Dicks dating history isn’t some major plot point, so including it in the comics seems like using their resources appropriately to me. Just like a portion of the story was in the video game.

No one seem to bothered by the comics references to small details when we were in the Atlantis portion.

And again I know this has made its rounds on this site dozen times.
3A250832-1F35-4B34-AB12-266D0EF1E99D.jpg

[Drako]

Hey, we got to 100 pages!

[Frontier]

There are only so many episodes in a season. I appreciate them trying to make every second of it count. Dicks dating history isn’t some major plot point, so including it in the comics seems like using their resources appropriately to me. Just like a portion of the story was in the video game.

No one seem to bothered by the comics references to small details when we were in the Atlantis portion.

And again I know this has made its rounds on this site dozen times.
3A250832-1F35-4B34-AB12-266D0EF1E99D.jpg

I feel like the Atlantis stuff was a little more forgivable than say "Clark actually trying to bond with Conner" or stuff like that.

[Rac7d*]

I feel like the Atlantis stuff was a little more forgivable than say "Clark actually trying to bond with Conner" or stuff like that.

It’s forgivable because no one cares lagoon boy is best friends with a whale, or how he started dating mgnnn or who is on the Atlantean council

What we in this particular thread care about is who is the Mrs right for Richard Grayson.

[Ascended]

And Bette...making four .

Is that from the comic? Well, if Weisman says it's canon then it's canon. Still, four isn't a lot.

I feel like the only success someone has with building up a new love interest is with a newer character with less relationship history. Seeley tried to make Shawn happen but that didn't take off.

Seeley gave it a fair shot, but he rushed it. Maybe he knew he wouldn't be on the title for long and was trying to squeeze everything into the time he had. Maybe if he had been able to build the dynamic up slowly and organically, Shawn would have stuck. I'm not hating on the man, he's one of my favorite Nightwing writers, but in order to get Dick, Babs, and Kori beyond this toxic relationship cycle, new love interests need to be brought in for all of them, and given time to cement themselves rather than being ignored and dropped with each new creator.

Dick's relationships with both women are pretty big aspects of his character and history. Hard to get past, and fans have very deeply entrenched opinions on it all. Changing their minds and getting them to accept and embrace anyone new is not something you can rush. You have to do the opposite; take your time and build it up slowly; not entirely in a "will they/won't they" fashion, but in a carefully controlled growth that leaves fans wanting more. You gotta get people begging for it to happen, not push it on them suddenly.

I don't think you need a "newer" character either. Just someone with a vague enough mythos and history that you can adapt it and wrap it into Dick's world. She can't have a firmly established love interest (think about every relationship Hawkgirl has had with anyone who isn't Carter). Her popularity and mythos can't be so deep that it outshines Dick's. She has to compliment him and his 'verse while adding story elements he otherwise wouldn't have easy access to. She can't have a solo to regularly appear in, she's gotta be under Bat editorial and the Nightwing writer, 100% (even if she's on a team somewhere). And it'd be best if she had personality traits that clearly and obviously line-up with past love interests, to clearly establish some compatibility.

Babs can't work long-term as long as DC wants her to be a headliner. Kori can't work as long as DC is intent on ignoring the things about Nightwing that aren't Bat-centric. And either option has been used so much, for so long, it's gone stale anyway. Dick needs a love interest where his writer has full control and can make the most of the relationship, and that relationship needs to be more than a retread of where we've been before.

All this said, Seeley almost made Shawn work; if he'd stretched that out over the course of a few more years instead of jumping from "nice to meet you" to "I love you" within months, he might've managed it. And Taylor is making DickBabs work right now; even I don't hate them together at the moment, and I usually think Dick and Babs bring out the worst in each other. But that's right now, with Taylor, and I still think it'd be best for Nightwing to move on and find someone else. Something fresh, where DC won't pull the plug on it because they've decided to give Batgirl another chance at a solo or they're afraid people might forget, for one second, that Dick is anything other than a Bat.

A new character would be ideal, in some ways, as she could be designed specifically for the role. But someone fans know will generate more early interest and hype, and *might* be seen as DC taking this more seriously.

Or DC could just have Babs, Dick, and Kori in a poly relationship. It's not in-character for any of them, and I'd fear DC would just write it as some kinda trash high school fantasy, but it *is* an option.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Is that from the comic? Well, if Weisman says it's canon then it's canon. Still, four isn't a lot.



Seeley gave it a fair shot, but he rushed it. Maybe he knew he wouldn't be on the title for long and was trying to squeeze everything into the time he had. Maybe if he had been able to build the dynamic up slowly and organically, Shawn would have stuck. I'm not hating on the man, he's one of my favorite Nightwing writers, but in order to get Dick, Babs, and Kori beyond this toxic relationship cycle, new love interests need to be brought in for all of them, and given time to cement themselves rather than being ignored and dropped with each new creator.

Dick's relationships with both women are pretty big aspects of his character and history. Hard to get past, and fans have very deeply entrenched opinions on it all. Changing their minds and getting them to accept and embrace anyone new is not something you can rush. You have to do the opposite; take your time and build it up slowly; not entirely in a "will they/won't they" fashion, but in a carefully controlled growth that leaves fans wanting more. You gotta get people begging for it to happen, not push it on them suddenly.

I don't think you need a "newer" character either. Just someone with a vague enough mythos and history that you can adapt it and wrap it into Dick's world. She can't have a firmly established love interest (think about every relationship Hawkgirl has had with anyone who isn't Carter). Her popularity and mythos can't be so deep that it outshines Dick's. She has to compliment him and his 'verse while adding story elements he otherwise wouldn't have easy access to. She can't have a solo to regularly appear in, she's gotta be under Bat editorial and the Nightwing writer, 100% (even if she's on a team somewhere). And it'd be best if she had personality traits that clearly and obviously line-up with past love interests, to clearly establish some compatibility.

Babs can't work long-term as long as DC wants her to be a headliner. Kori can't work as long as DC is intent on ignoring the things about Nightwing that aren't Bat-centric. And either option has been used so much, for so long, it's gone stale anyway. Dick needs a love interest where his writer has full control and can make the most of the relationship, and that relationship needs to be more than a retread of where we've been before.

All this said, Seeley almost made Shawn work; if he'd stretched that out over the course of a few more years instead of jumping from "nice to meet you" to "I love you" within months, he might've managed it. And Taylor is making DickBabs work right now; even I don't hate them together at the moment, and I usually think Dick and Babs bring out the worst in each other. But that's right now, with Taylor, and I still think it'd be best for Nightwing to move on and find someone else. Something fresh, where DC won't pull the plug on it because they've decided to give Batgirl another chance at a solo or they're afraid people might forget, for one second, that Dick is anything other than a Bat.

A new character would be ideal, in some ways, as she could be designed specifically for the role. But someone fans know will generate more early interest and hype, and *might* be seen as DC taking this more seriously.

Or DC could just have Babs, Dick, and Kori in a poly relationship. It's not in-character for any of them, and I'd fear DC would just write it as some kinda trash high school fantasy, but it *is* an option.

I think it'd be more beneficial for Dick to be the love interest of a character who is a headliner but has no definite love interest (atleast one that is actually a good guy). This will give Dick a huge boost in marketability because now he is necessary for their mythos and has the Batman mythos and Titans as back up and proof of him being able to hold his own in that person's world. So now you get more of a Catwoman situation where Dick gets his own solos and adaptations, but he is till very much a part of that headliner's world. Its unfortunate for Babs as a headliner choice that she has been adapted as Bruce's love interest three times (please dont argue about, it happened, let it go) and now her movie has Jason Bard. Dick actually has more competition to be Babs main love interest than vice versa due to her being adapted more times with him not being her major love interest.

For me, Dick is a character that actually NEEDS to be opposite of the bad boy archtype which is why he worked so well with Jason Todd pre N52. Dick needs to have his goodness challenged haha so im ok with a love triangle as long as its good guy - good girl - bad boy dynamic ^-^ A situation like Cyclops, Jean Grey and Wolverine might actually work BECAUSE we know Wolverine and Jean Grey will never come into fruition, it will never work out. It will always be Jean Grey and Cyclops because Cyclops is the good guy (just like Dick).

[Godlike13]

What headliner doesn’t have a love interest though. Love interests are pretty text book that if someone has made it to the point of being a headliner they most likely already have one.

[Frontier]

Is that from the comic? Well, if Weisman says it's canon then it's canon. Still, four isn't a lot.



Seeley gave it a fair shot, but he rushed it. Maybe he knew he wouldn't be on the title for long and was trying to squeeze everything into the time he had. Maybe if he had been able to build the dynamic up slowly and organically, Shawn would have stuck. I'm not hating on the man, he's one of my favorite Nightwing writers, but in order to get Dick, Babs, and Kori beyond this toxic relationship cycle, new love interests need to be brought in for all of them, and given time to cement themselves rather than being ignored and dropped with each new creator.

Dick's relationships with both women are pretty big aspects of his character and history. Hard to get past, and fans have very deeply entrenched opinions on it all. Changing their minds and getting them to accept and embrace anyone new is not something you can rush. You have to do the opposite; take your time and build it up slowly; not entirely in a "will they/won't they" fashion, but in a carefully controlled growth that leaves fans wanting more. You gotta get people begging for it to happen, not push it on them suddenly.

I don't think you need a "newer" character either. Just someone with a vague enough mythos and history that you can adapt it and wrap it into Dick's world. She can't have a firmly established love interest (think about every relationship Hawkgirl has had with anyone who isn't Carter). Her popularity and mythos can't be so deep that it outshines Dick's. She has to compliment him and his 'verse while adding story elements he otherwise wouldn't have easy access to. She can't have a solo to regularly appear in, she's gotta be under Bat editorial and the Nightwing writer, 100% (even if she's on a team somewhere). And it'd be best if she had personality traits that clearly and obviously line-up with past love interests, to clearly establish some compatibility.

Babs can't work long-term as long as DC wants her to be a headliner. Kori can't work as long as DC is intent on ignoring the things about Nightwing that aren't Bat-centric. And either option has been used so much, for so long, it's gone stale anyway. Dick needs a love interest where his writer has full control and can make the most of the relationship, and that relationship needs to be more than a retread of where we've been before.

All this said, Seeley almost made Shawn work; if he'd stretched that out over the course of a few more years instead of jumping from "nice to meet you" to "I love you" within months, he might've managed it. And Taylor is making DickBabs work right now; even I don't hate them together at the moment, and I usually think Dick and Babs bring out the worst in each other. But that's right now, with Taylor, and I still think it'd be best for Nightwing to move on and find someone else. Something fresh, where DC won't pull the plug on it because they've decided to give Batgirl another chance at a solo or they're afraid people might forget, for one second, that Dick is anything other than a Bat.

A new character would be ideal, in some ways, as she could be designed specifically for the role. But someone fans know will generate more early interest and hype, and *might* be seen as DC taking this more seriously.

Or DC could just have Babs, Dick, and Kori in a poly relationship. It's not in-character for any of them, and I'd fear DC would just write it as some kinda trash high school fantasy, but it *is* an option.

I think I remember Seeley saying you don't really have the benefit of doing the slow-burn with relationships as much any more, and honestly he's kind of right. I think that's how he justified progressing things as quickly as they did.

[Rac7d*]

I think I remember Seeley saying you don't really have the benefit of doing the slow-burn with relationships as much any more, and honestly he's kind of right. I think that's how he justified progressing things as quickly as they did.

You can’t slow burn anything nowadays everyone want it all immediately

[Konja7]

For me, Dick is a character that actually NEEDS to be opposite of the bad boy archtype which is why he worked so well with Jason Todd pre N52. Dick needs to have his goodness challenged haha so im ok with a love triangle as long as its good guy - good girl - bad boy dynamic ^-^ A situation like Cyclops, Jean Grey and Wolverine might actually work BECAUSE we know Wolverine and Jean Grey will never come into fruition, it will never work out. It will always be Jean Grey and Cyclops because Cyclops is the good guy (just like Dick).

I've understood a romantic relationship between Wolverine and Jean Grey has recently come to fruition.

Also, considering the way DC wants to show Dick as promiscuous, I really doubt it could portray Dick as the "good guy" in a love triangle.

You can’t slow burn anything nowadays everyone want it all immediately

It isn't just that. Currently, creative teams in comics have pretty short runs.

New writers tend to focus on their own new characters, while they ignore characters added by previous writers.

That's why writers don't have the benefit of doing the slow-burn with relationships.

[HsssH]

Yeah, it is a problem with supporting cast in general. I don't even know who exactly is Nightwing's supporting cast at this point? Other heroes?

[WonderNight]

I've understood a romantic relationship between Wolverine and Jean Grey has recently come to fruition.

Also, considering the way DC wants to show Dick as promiscuous, I really doubt it could portray Dick as the "good guy" in a love triangle.




It isn't just that. Currently, creative teams in comics have pretty short runs.

New writers tend to focus on their own new characters, while they ignore characters added by previous writers.

That's why writers don't have the benefit of doing the slow-burn with relationships.

That why it has to be on the higher ups and editorial to enforce it from creative to creative, i just hope it not someone from the franchise.