Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[Fergus]

I'd say that the reason why the general public is likely to know the name Dick Grayson is the Adam West show. That is part of popular culture and that version is the most iconic iteration of Robin.

Popularity of Dick Grayson Robin/Nightwing most likely is due to TTGO, YJ and the Games.

[WonderNight]

How far Bludhaven is from Gotham is relevant, because it is a way for Dick to have its cake and eat it too: he has a space of his own, but his family is right there at any point in time.



Truly disagree with all this, even as someone who thoroughly enjoyed Teen Titans and Young Justice. Dick Grayson is famous among the general audience because he was Robin, as in Batman's sidekick, as in the one everyone knows. Everything else is secondary and builds off that preexisting piece of knowledge. Ask people in the street "Who is Robin?", and you'll get the answer "Batman's sidekick" much more than you'll get "member of the Teen Titans".

Gotham is shoved into things because Batman is profitable. That is a reality of the world. If the Titans were similarly profitable, DC would do something with them. Dick's role in the Titans hasn't been truly relevant in comics for almost 30 years, and for good reason - the Titans represent a specific moment in his history, one of adolescent rebellion and teenage angst. He grew up, and so it is no longer a good fit.

I don't think anyone should expect Dick to spin off into his own separate corner of the DC universe, with brand new supporting cast, brand new scenario, brand new everything. That's not the point of the character, either from a brand perspective or from a narrative perspective.

Well first that still doesn't answer the question as the way dick decided to move to Bludhaven, what made him say I need to leave Gotham and go here?

Second. When was the last time dick was robin in Batman media the mainstream?? about 4 freaking decades ago lol. The mainstream of today mainly know dick as Robin form the Titans and young justice!! Most new Batman mainstream content of dick is him as Nightwing not Robin, and there he's always just a support or background player and never a lead!!

Third. Nightwing should be building his own corner of dcu, otherwise what the point of his character? To what be just another Robin and Batgirl for Batman?

Dc in the last year have done a better job at building a unique corner for new characters like jace and yara than the last 30 years of nightwing. Freaking sad.

Buy hey I'm gonna have me some good laughs when Gotham Knights reviews come out and the reviews refer to nightwing as one of Batman's many sidekicks. lol should be fun.

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

How far Bludhaven is from Gotham is relevant, because it is a way for Dick to have its cake and eat it too: he has a space of his own, but his family is right there at any point in time.



Truly disagree with all this, even as someone who thoroughly enjoyed Teen Titans and Young Justice. Dick Grayson is famous among the general audience because he was Robin, as in Batman's sidekick, as in the one everyone knows. Everything else is secondary and builds off that preexisting piece of knowledge. Ask people in the street "Who is Robin?", and you'll get the answer "Batman's sidekick" much more than you'll get "member of the Teen Titans".

Gotham is shoved into things because Batman is profitable. That is a reality of the world. If the Titans were similarly profitable, DC would do something with them. Dick's role in the Titans hasn't been truly relevant in comics for almost 30 years, and for good reason - the Titans represent a specific moment in his history, one of adolescent rebellion and teenage angst. He grew up, and so it is no longer a good fit.

I don't think anyone should expect Dick to spin off into his own separate corner of the DC universe, with brand new supporting cast, brand new scenario, brand new everything. That's not the point of the character, either from a brand perspective or from a narrative perspective.

I mean, never say never! It was working quite well for him in the late 80s early 90s. Dixon kinda ruined his own hype around the 2000s and Devin Grayson destroyed him completely. The last time Dick had any kind of push to be a brand separate from Batman was actually Grayson when he was a spy. They promo'd that everywhere. But that quickly got sidelined by convergence and rebirth. I will agree that Dick is a character that needs an interesting side cast/ensemble! I think what he needs is a new profitable franchise to be a part of to shine in. One in its infancy. Be there from start to finish and really become an inseparable part of it. That way, bat editors can't just rip him away because the franchise is too profitable.

Well first that still doesn't answer the question as the way dick decided to move to Bludhaven, what made him say I need to leave Gotham and go here?

Second. When was the last time dick was robin in Batman media the mainstream?? about 4 freaking decades ago lol. The mainstream of today mainly know dick as Robin form the Titans and young justice!! Most new Batman mainstream content of dick is him as Nightwing not Robin, and there he's always just a support or background player and never a lead!!

Third. Nightwing should be building his own corner of dcu, otherwise what the point of his character? To what be just another Robin and Batgirl for Batman?

Dc in the last year have done a better job at building a unique corner for new characters like jace and yara than the last 30 years of nightwing. Freaking sad.

Buy hey I'm gonna have me some good laughs when Gotham Knights reviews come out and the reviews refer to nightwing as one of Batman's many sidekicks. lol should be fun.

Lol the promo's literally have them all referred to as Batman's sidekicks coming together to save Gotham in his absence. The main complaint of the game I see is that there is no Batman.

[Rac7d*]

I found Damian's absence odd as well. Heck even Duke has an upcoming appearance but not Damian.

It's Dick's solo so it's not like the writer HAS to include Damian or any of the family[I rather see Dick and other DC characters to be honest] however since he is featuring the Batfamily, Damian's absence is jarring.

You could look at it as Taylor exploring Dick's dynamic with other bats which honestly some do need fleshing out.

Duke appearing in another splash background voices cameo means nothing
Damian has been out of the country most of the Nightwing run. They text tho. Jason did a whole annual with dick they fine.

[OOPS]

Well first that still doesn't answer the question as the way dick decided to move to Bludhaven, what made him say I need to leave Gotham and go here?

Second. When was the last time dick was robin in Batman media the mainstream?? about 4 freaking decades ago lol. The mainstream of today mainly know dick as Robin form the Titans and young justice!! Most new Batman mainstream content of dick is him as Nightwing not Robin, and there he's always just a support or background player and never a lead!!

Third. Nightwing should be building his own corner of dcu, otherwise what the point of his character? To what be just another Robin and Batgirl for Batman?

Dc in the last year have done a better job at building a unique corner for new characters like jace and yara than the last 30 years of nightwing. Freaking sad.

Buy hey I'm gonna have me some good laughs when Gotham Knights reviews come out and the reviews refer to nightwing as one of Batman's many sidekicks. lol should be fun.

I think we have very different perspectives. Jace features in on of the lowest selling Batbooks, selling less than many of the non Bat characters that aren't selling. He is the lowest selling "Batman" by quite alot. Yara Flor did so well her book was cancelled out of the gate. They are on some candy wrappers, but no in any series, top 50 comics or games. I don't see that as a good level of success to which a brand that is pretty steady in the top 50, in several moderately to very popular shows and marketable games.

I think we view the "point" of characters differently. I view character success as a character with broad appeal that can be used in stories that resonate with readers, viewers and players, and a character that is a marketable IP. Plus, I don't really see a "new" Batman and a "new" Wonder Girl as having been developed with a new slice of the DCU. Both characters were developed in order to take roles of existing characters, and DC only really pulled back when sales didn't follow....they are still trying though.

I didn't quite understand the point of Dick as Robin. In the last 12 months, Dick as Robin has been featured in two strong selling and critically comics-World's Finest and Robin and Batman. My understanding is that rumors some version of Dick was considered for the Batman sequel, and I believe TTgo still includes Robin. Not to mention the seasons of YJ broadly considered to be the strongest featured Dick as Robin, not to mention S1 of Titans had Dick as Robin until the reveal in the finale.

Now as far as why Bludhaven, my recollection is Dick went on an errand for Batman. He felt it was his place...a place less than an hour away. Not near Star City, or Jump City, and stints in Chicago and NYC didn't work out for the character narratively. I'd argue the point is that Bludhaven is a hop skip and a jump from "home", closes enough to go home, but separate enough to have a separate identity. Within the narrative an opportunity to contrast Batman and Nightwing's approaches. Until the recent run, Bludhaven was the seedy neon light red district to Gotham noir landscape.

I'm sure some will call Dick sidekick...but then I see a lot of people looking forward to playing Nightwing too.

[Felipe Silveira]

I don't care about that A list or big DCU stuff. My problem is they don't use the characters that Dick already has. Generic ninjas have 3, Shrike, Saiko and Raptor, all with personal problems with Dick (not to mention the whole Wilson family), where is Torque, Hella, Lady Vic, the Double Dare. Why characters like Marionette, Judge and others were created, to never appear again?
Nightwing's characters appear more in other comics than in his, while the 3 generic ninjas are in other comics or missing, Nightwing's big fight in the current run was against who? A police commissioner.
Imagine the impact of Tarantula's return, this could be big, remarkable.
Whenever someone goes to write Dick, they say the same thing "I'm a fan of the character, bla bla..." but they don't use any of the runs that Nightwing has had, even Bruce Jones made things that can be used, Cheyenne Freemont.

[Daedalus]

Well first that still doesn't answer the question as the way dick decided to move to Bludhaven, what made him say I need to leave Gotham and go here?

A sense of responsibility, duty, or whatever else you want to conjure up. He's there because it's editorially convenient for him to be there.

Second. When was the last time dick was robin in Batman media the mainstream?? about 4 freaking decades ago lol. The mainstream of today mainly know dick as Robin form the Titans and young justice!! Most new Batman mainstream content of dick is him as Nightwing not Robin, and there he's always just a support or background player and never a lead!!

You are missing the point I was trying to convey. The general public doesn't even know who Dick Grayson is by name. They know Robin, Batman's sidekick.

The greatest exposure Dick has had is likely through the Arkham games, since games have more players than TV shows have watchers (though I haven't played those games). He's appeared as Bat-adjacent in tons of media in these past four decades, including as Robin in Lego Batman, The Brave and the Bold and its spin off titles, The Batman, BTAS, DC Superhero Girls, etc. Even in Teen Titans Go!, Titans and Young Justice, his relationship with Batman is used extensively, because that's what people know the character from.

Third. Nightwing should be building his own corner of dcu, otherwise what the point of his character? To what be just another Robin and Batgirl for Batman?

I see Nightwing as healthy Batman - this is important, because somewhere along the line, Nightwing dealt with his parents death in some sort of emotional reckoning, while Batman never did. Dick Grayson can go on to be happy, have friends, a love life, etc., while Batman is forever trapped in his unhappiness.

I'm gonna have me some good laughs when Gotham Knights reviews come out and the reviews refer to nightwing as one of Batman's many sidekicks. lol should be fun.

I don't mind. Why get upset by semantics?

[Daedalus]

I mean, never say never! It was working quite well for him in the late 80s early 90s.

I view that period as a very specific time in Dick's history: he was 18, impetuous and rebellious, as many teens are. He blamed it all on dad and brooded through life secluded away with people only his own age. That's fine for an 18 year old, but Dick's now a full-fledged adult, and such behavior would be immature and unhealthy. Dixon and his successors did fine work bridging Dick's prior characterization as Robin to Wolfman's and transforming him into the kind, jovial, lighthearted man we have today.

I think we have very different perspectives. Jace features in on of the lowest selling Batbooks, selling less than many of the non Bat characters that aren't selling. He is the lowest selling "Batman" by quite alot. Yara Flor did so well her book was cancelled out of the gate. They are on some candy wrappers, but no in any series, top 50 comics or games. I don't see that as a good level of success to which a brand that is pretty steady in the top 50, in several moderately to very popular shows and marketable games.

I think we view the "point" of characters differently. I view character success as a character with broad appeal that can be used in stories that resonate with readers, viewers and players, and a character that is a marketable IP. Plus, I don't really see a "new" Batman and a "new" Wonder Girl as having been developed with a new slice of the DCU. Both characters were developed in order to take roles of existing characters, and DC only really pulled back when sales didn't follow....they are still trying though.

I didn't quite understand the point of Dick as Robin. In the last 12 months, Dick as Robin has been featured in two strong selling and critically comics-World's Finest and Robin and Batman. My understanding is that rumors some version of Dick was considered for the Batman sequel, and I believe TTgo still includes Robin. Not to mention the seasons of YJ broadly considered to be the strongest featured Dick as Robin, not to mention S1 of Titans had Dick as Robin until the reveal in the finale.

Now as far as why Bludhaven, my recollection is Dick went on an errand for Batman. He felt it was his place...a place less than an hour away. Not near Star City, or Jump City, and stints in Chicago and NYC didn't work out for the character narratively. I'd argue the point is that Bludhaven is a hop skip and a jump from "home", closes enough to go home, but separate enough to have a separate identity. Within the narrative an opportunity to contrast Batman and Nightwing's approaches. Until the recent run, Bludhaven was the seedy neon light red district to Gotham noir landscape.

I'm sure some will call Dick sidekick...but then I see a lot of people looking forward to playing Nightwing too.

This is a great, well-written response, and I agree with most everything here.

[WonderNight]

I don't care about that A list or big DCU stuff. My problem is they don't use the characters that Dick already has. Generic ninjas have 3, Shrike, Saiko and Raptor, all with personal problems with Dick (not to mention the whole Wilson family), where is Torque, Hella, Lady Vic, the Double Dare. Why characters like Marionette, Judge and others were created, to never appear again?
Nightwing's characters appear more in other comics than in his, while the 3 generic ninjas are in other comics or missing, Nightwing's big fight in the current run was against who? A police commissioner.
Imagine the impact of Tarantula's return, this could be big, remarkable.
Whenever someone goes to write Dick, they say the same thing "I'm a fan of the character, bla bla..." but they don't use any of the runs that Nightwing has had, even Bruce Jones made things that can be used, Cheyenne Freemont.

Thats because comics are story boards for outside media like movies, tv shows, videogames and animation etc. And nightwing is a support character for batman, not a solo lead character in outside media so there's never a point to use his own stuff. He's Just gonna play support to batman and batfam in gotham so what's the point in DC's eyes? The only time Nightwing in mainstream is a lead character is in teams.

[Godlike13]

Dick did the NYC thing long before Jace, spoilers…it sucked and didn’t build anymore of a world for him then Bludhaven.

[WonderNight]

Dick did the NYC thing long before Jace, spoilers…it sucked and didn’t build anymore of a world for him then Bludhaven.

that's not what I meant. I mean a new character like jace already has as much of his own independent developed corner than nightwing does in a faction of the time. Hell Grayson felt like it had more world building in 1 year than Nightwing has in the last 20!!

[K. Jones]

I'm not disagreeing because I knew Batman '66 when I was a kid and then when it kicked back off on Nick at Nite, I picked it back up again. But I'm 36, born in 85, and that general audience would have been watching Batman 20 years before I was born on black & white tvs. Which isn't to say there isn't pop culture osmosis or that it isn't a piece of iconic pop culture. Certainly it radiated down to me, hard, and I adore '66. But most of even my Batman-reading friends? Not at all.

Now, I'll obviously credit Batman: The Animated Series with being the real culprit for at least anyone my age. But I actually think there's an in-between. Super-Friends and the various DC Super Friends era stuff, I think, might have inbued the universe (and young folks) with Dick Grayson more potently in the 70s than even Batman '66 ever did. It had not just the Casey Kasem Dick Grayson but also the action figure line ... indeed the actual genesis of the whole concept of Action Figures, after G.I. JOE paved the way in the late sixties and the smaller plastic model dolls became the de facto icons on store shelves - complete with BIOS on the cardbacks. Now, if Batman '66 catapulted Batman & Robin into the pop culture zeitgeist, it was still up to the aftermath of '66, the decade after, for it to really disseminate into the ethereal pop culture hive mind. By the 80s, yeah, even maybe your mom knew "Robin, AKA Dick Grayson", although that was still probably like, 25% of the people who knew "Batman = Bruce Wayne".

Nowadays I couldn't say. Everyone has a different entrypoint and I've followed a lot of different media, from TAS to TTG to YJ and various other things. But it's not like there hasn't been a steady stream of Dick Grayson animation since the 70s, and only really the 80s had a dearth.

[Rac7d*]

I'd say that the reason why the general public is likely to know the name Dick Grayson is the Adam West show. That is part of popular culture and that version is the most iconic iteration of Robin.

Popularity of Dick Grayson Robin/Nightwing most likely is due to TTGO, YJ and the Games.

Nightwings popularity is a combination of his fun play style from the Arkham games his development in YG and his great run by chuck Dixon.

[K7P5V]

Nightwings popularity is a combination of his fun play style from the Arkham games his development in YG and his great run by chuck Dixon.

I concur. The Chuck Dixon run on Nightwing should never be overlooked (IMHO):

[OOPS]

Nightwings popularity is a combination of his fun play style from the Arkham games his development in YG and his great run by chuck Dixon.

Maybe. I feel the popularity is a result of the strength of Dick Grayson as a character. Hmmm. As I'm trying to craft my argument I'm realizing another facet of my I don't like the Taylor, and really I don't mind Taylor on other characters, just not Nightwing. Anyway, I think the strength of Dick, whether as Robin, Nightwing, Batman or Grayson is mirrored in his "unique" physicality. The character is adaptable, can be placed into any story/situation...and twist and flip thru that story space because his core is so strong. He is simultaneously vulnerable (visually represented by his "lack" of armour compared to Batman and physical vulnerability compared to Superman), yet strong and competent. He can be more expressive (both physically and emotionally) than Batman-often depicted in the car or in the shadows, yet drill in danger of being hurt, as compared to Superman in the bright light.

So, I think the character's popularity is that in most instances, Dick's core traits as "easily" conveyed visually, which leads to good adaptation across genres.

Incidentally, I dropped the Taylor run after the Titans issue as I was turned off by the image of Dick just laying on the "villians" shoulders in front of the stage. That single image encapsulated my issues with the run.