Dick Grayson: Robin/Batman/Nightwing/Agent 37 Appreciation 2022

[Iclifton]

While I hope we keep Taylor and Redondo for as long as possible, I would love to see Williamsons take on Nightwing. I think he could be a great choice to follow up this run.

[JackJustMetMartin]

https://comicfrontline.com/2022/01/0...-2021-winners/

Comic frontline voters have voted for Nightwing as Best Male Character, Best Ongoing Title, Best Single Issue (Nightwing #78)

[Drako]

https://comicfrontline.com/2022/01/0...-2021-winners/

Comic frontline voters have voted for Nightwing as Best Male Character, Best Ongoing Title, Best Single Issue (Nightwing #78)

Jesus, that's a lot of Nightwing related stuff in there!
That is awesome.

[Avi]

Hey, he was around last year! In the Robin book... doing and saying nothing, really. I'm sure he'll be around for the January and February issues of Robin in 2022 too...

Damn do I miss him.


I was under the impression that The Long Halloween was one of the biggest inspirations behind Reeves' take on Batman, if that's not accurate, then oh well. An animated adaptation is pretty likely though, so I hope that happens sooner than later.

About Young Justice, one thing to note is in terms of screentime, Dick is estimated to be the one who comes in third after Miss Martian and Superboy (someone went through the painstaking effort of counting minutes for every episode up to the present). Dick may have had a diminished role in the action in Invasion, but he was still instrumental to the plot. For Outsiders, it was his show for the first 13 episodes. I think people underrate Dick's role in the series, especially for a DCU-wide series that isn't in love with Batman. He's driven the plot in every season so far, so for a character-driven season, I don't see why he wouldn't get good character focus. I mean, we got a good amount of it in Outsiders after all.

Also I kinda forgot about HQ lol. I don't expect anything but butt jokes to come out of it.

I did want to ask real quick though, who's the former Spyral agent you're talking about?

[...]

I'd already forgotten Raptor is/was in Robin. Williamson really picked up four of Dick's rogues to use them as background pieces.

Oh no, you are probably right about Reeves. I just haven't payed close attention to The Batman, which is why I asked if he has mentioned DV.

Counting the minutes sure is dedication. Young Justice has been good to Dick, no doubt, even if Season 1 surpasses all. After Zatanna's arc I'm just a lot more pessimistic. She was overshadowed a lot.

There'll be a gazillion butt jokes, lol. His short appearance in HQ's Eat, Bang, Kill Tour was alright, so if that's the feel the show is also going for it'll be enough for me. It is a HQ cartoon after all.

The former Spyral agent is a new character introduced in Suicide Squad called Culebra. More info on this CBR article. I remember finding the article because Thompson retweeted it, but he's apparently deleted the retweet since. His likes on it and on the comment from Nightwingology are still there though. It seems as if he is interested in using Spyral and the organisation's connection to Dick.

[Rac7d*]

I don't think you get why Bruce and Dick as Batman and Robin are special at all lol. Even if they say Bruce is 60, if Dick is any younger than 40, he's only Dick Grayson in name. At some point, he's just Tim Drake with the wrong name, or even worse off. A Carrie, or a Terry (which Babs already is in the DCEU).

If you want the worst case scenario, it's that Dick is dead again (lol) or we get a Dark Knight Strikes Again villain turn. Or something worse.

Why? Keaton was batman for deacdes before retiring, there is enough time in there for him to have adopted a child 25-30 years ago. There is enough time for a batman and robin in the past. They have free range to do whatever in the gap time. Heck he could have adopted two. The only thing changing is that barbra grodon is entering the game late. We dont know how old Bruce is in the film. Perhaps he tried once with grayson and it didnt work out so he is aprehensive with training gordon now.

[Rac7d*]

For all we know Dick might be an agent of spyral in this universe anything is possible going forward

[Lady Nightwing]

There was a vote for best DC comics for 2021 on reddit. Nightwing won, Tom Taylor won best writer, Bruno Redondo won best artist, Nightwing 87 won best single issue, and the cover that was an homage to the 66 series won best cover. I know Reddit doesn't count for much but it is refreshing to see our boy getting positive attention

[MakeNightwingGreatAgain]

Probably because Bruce (Michael Keaton) is 70, so Dick would presumably be 50 at his youngest. Based on Babs age, he'd be more of a Terry McGinnis character introduced in his mid-20's otherwise. Or he'd be introduced as Babs' sidekick lmao. It is marginally better than the character being dead on arrival, literally, so you got that part right imo.


Just wanted to highlight that these would be really cool to see. I'm especially interested in Dick's time as Red X and his dealings with the second one too. Would be neat to see those broken down into two different mini-series, I just have to wonder how long it might take for someone at DC to deliver on the demand for that...

It's pretty unfortunate to see Bruce and Damian going up against Slade again in an event, with Dick nowhere to be seen, but oh well. Dick cameos alongside Babs in an issue of Deathstroke's book so maybe that'll lead up to something, someday.

I do want to talk about the Flash book though, I think it's significantly stronger than the Nightwing book overall. I'm excited for it, but the Flash issues of Nightwing is just bringing Wally over to Bludhaven for two issues, whereas the Flash book just took Wally and the entire Justice League Dark to Gemworld. So if anyone's going to take lead on a hypothetical Nightwing/Flash crossover, I'd want it to be Jeremy Adams.

That said, I really, really hope we stop getting crossovers or events involving books like Nightwing now, and instead we just get mini-series for crossovers. Less Fear State, more Devil's Reign. This Nightwing run already feels like a Daredevil one anyways, might as well learn from it lol.

You pretty much echoed my sentiments exactly haha but we all know the Nightwing crossover is a Taylor invention because Wally will be his guard, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything significant. It seems like Nightwing's crossover with Superman is also going to be more of a Superman story than Nightwing. So we shall see.

Watch Dick be either introduced as a child sidekick to Babs, be used as a way for Keaton Baman to "right the past" and do a better job at helping Babs become Batgirl than he did with Dick becoming robin or Dick will be super old and retired and Babs will need him for something and he'll be more like his Batman Beyond self. I really think Batgirl is going to be basically Nightwing in the DCEU. She already has his cop background and being the next Batman.

I think the cameo in Deathstroke's book was just a nod to the fact that Black Canary used to be one of Babs' best friends and Deathstroke was Dick's arch nemesis. Williamson has always wanted to write Damian, so I expect lots of Damian content in the future.

[Godlike13]

I think we need to wait and see with the Flash movie, and the Batgirl movie for that matter. If they don’t do well, like with the JL movie, well we seen what happened there and all the plans after.

[Claude]

I do want to talk about the Flash book though, I think it's significantly stronger than the Nightwing book overall. I'm excited for it, but the Flash issues of Nightwing is just bringing Wally over to Bludhaven for two issues, whereas the Flash book just took Wally and the entire Justice League Dark to Gemworld. So if anyone's going to take lead on a hypothetical Nightwing/Flash crossover, I'd want it to be Jeremy Adams.

You know, maybe it's because although I like Wally but wouldn't call myself a Wally Fan, but I've found that book to be the upper-end of average - every bit as pandery as Taylor's Nightwing, but with significantly worse art and less to say.

It's fun, I'll continue picking it up, and I'm glad that Wally Fans are getting something they love - but I wouldn't want it to be the book in the driving seat in a Nightwing crossover, if I had the choice!

That said, I really, really hope we stop getting crossovers or events involving books like Nightwing now, and instead we just get mini-series for crossovers. Less Fear State, more Devil's Reign. This Nightwing run already feels like a Daredevil one anyways, might as well learn from it lol.

Ha! But the Daredevil ongoing had to end to let Devil's Reign happen, under the same writer - so it's basically the same thing!

You're right that we can all live with fewer Fear States in our lives! I'd much rather the Shadow War format of sympathetic titles meeting as equals for a limited timespan take over entirely.

[Godlike13]

You know, maybe it's because although I like Wally but wouldn't call myself a Wally Fan, but I've found that book to be the upper-end of average - every bit as pandery as Taylor's Nightwing, but with significantly worse art and less to say.

It's fun, I'll continue picking it up, and I'm glad that Wally Fans are getting something they love - but I wouldn't want it to be the book in the driving seat in a Nightwing crossover, if I had the choice!.

It’s very average. But we have seen this before, absences makes the heart grow fonder, and the bar set lower. Rebirth Titans saw a lot of this till it eventually wore off and people couldn’t deny how poor it was. Not that the Flash is bad like Rebirth Titans, but it’s not what I would call particularly strong either. Even Flash Forward saw it initially lol. Wally’s back as the Flash and his book doesn’t suck. That’s a win. But beyond that it not really doing anything above board. Nightwing is the in trend book of the year, and it’s making a name doing these kind of interpersonal stories. It should take the lead.

[Grayson - The Dark Heir]

The former Spyral agent is a new character introduced in Suicide Squad called Culebra. More info on this CBR article. I remember finding the article because Thompson retweeted it, but he's apparently deleted the retweet since. His likes on it and on the comment from Nightwingology are still there though. It seems as if he is interested in using Spyral and the organisation's connection to Dick.

This was very helpful, thanks! Completely missed this earlier, could mean some cool things. Didn't think this Culebra would end up being tied to Spyral of all things, but that's a cool connection.

You pretty much echoed my sentiments exactly haha but we all know the Nightwing crossover is a Taylor invention because Wally will be his guard, I wouldn't hold my breath for anything significant. It seems like Nightwing's crossover with Superman is also going to be more of a Superman story than Nightwing. So we shall see.

I think the cameo in Deathstroke's book was just a nod to the fact that Black Canary used to be one of Babs' best friends and Deathstroke was Dick's arch nemesis. Williamson has always wanted to write Damian, so I expect lots of Damian content in the future.

See, Nightwing dealing with a Superman story sounds significantly more interesting than Superman dealing with a Nightwing story based on how Taylor writers both books so I'm happy about that part at least lol.

Ha! But the Daredevil ongoing had to end to let Devil's Reign happen, under the same writer - so it's basically the same thing!

You're right that we can all live with fewer Fear States in our lives! I'd much rather the Shadow War format of sympathetic titles meeting as equals for a limited timespan take over entirely.

See, the part you're missing is Devil's Reign didn't require Spider-Man and like 5 other NYC-based books to tie-in, they just get to be part of the story itself through the mini-series. That's what I want, even for Earth-3 I would've much rather have gotten a "War for Earth-3" book for 5 issues or however long the crossover is going to be anyways. I want zero tie-ins, just event spin-off one-shots. But even if that works for Marvel sometimes, DC seems to hate the idea so oh well lol.

It’s very average. But we have seen this before, absences makes the heart grow fonder, and the bar set lower. Rebirth Titans saw a lot of this till it eventually wore off and people couldn’t deny how poor it was. Not that the Flash is bad like Rebirth Titans, but it’s not what I would call particularly strong either. Even Flash Forward saw it initially lol. Wally’s back as the Flash and his book doesn’t suck. That’s a win. But beyond that it not really doing anything above board. Nightwing is the in trend book of the year, and it’s making a name doing these kind of interpersonal stories. It should take the lead.

So I just have to ask, what interpersonal stories?

Dick has almost no valuable or interesting interactions with anyone that lives in Bludhaven, which makes the focus of this run pretty odd. His sister and her mother exist, but there's like nothing there. Besides them, he's not really spoken to anyone else except Clark and the Batfam? The closest thing he has to a character conflict with anyone is probably with Babs because she nags him like once in the first arc, everything else is smooth-sailing for him. Nothing's really new when it comes to Dick and Tim either. The Clark scene was definitely good, and I also really liked the Annual, but I'm not sure why you'd think either of those stories are any better than the usual stuff we've seen over the past few years. I think it only seems interesting because anything would be after Ric.

Meanwhile, the Flash manages to delve into the relationships of several characters around Wally, from Barry, Michael, and Ollie to Roy to Gold Beetle to Linda, Irey, and Jai. And not with just Wally, but with each other at that. All pretty casually, while Wally's suitably crazy adventures are the actual focus of the book. When Clark interacts with Wally, it's not a big deal at all because it's just the usual for the book and for Wally. The scope and scale of the Flash as a character and the book itself are just on a completely different level from Nightwing. That's not a bad thing at all, but that's why I say it should be the Flash side of things that take the lead, where Dick can actually deal with something of a higher scale for once.

[Lal]

ICV2 ranking for December :
https://icv2.com/articles/markets/vi...-december-2021

2 Nightwing books made it to the list - both the annual and issue #87 (honestly I thought #87 would sell better. Maybe it's because the last 2 weeks were holidays while the annual was there the entire month).
With Robin & Batman #2 and Detective comics annual, those are 4 books starting Dick in the top 50 this month.

[HsssH]

2 Nightwing books made it to the list - both the annual and issue #87 (honestly I thought #87 would sell better. Maybe it's because the last 2 weeks were holidays while the annual was there the entire month).

Maybe good number of Red Hood fans also picked it up.

[Godlike13]

So I just have to ask, what interpersonal stories?

Dick has almost no valuable or interesting interactions with anyone that lives in Bludhaven, which makes the focus of this run pretty odd. His sister and her mother exist, but there's like nothing there. Besides them, he's not really spoken to anyone else except Clark and the Batfam? The closest thing he has to a character conflict with anyone is probably with Babs because she nags him like once in the first arc, everything else is smooth-sailing for him. Nothing's really new when it comes to Dick and Tim either. The Clark scene was definitely good, and I also really liked the Annual, but I'm not sure why you'd think either of those stories are any better than the usual stuff we've seen over the past few years. I think it only seems interesting because anything would be after Ric.

Meanwhile, the Flash manages to delve into the relationships of several characters around Wally, from Barry, Michael, and Ollie to Roy to Gold Beetle to Linda, Irey, and Jai. And not with just Wally, but with each other at that. All pretty casually, while Wally's suitably crazy adventures are the actual focus of the book. When Clark interacts with Wally, it's not a big deal at all because it's just the usual for the book and for Wally. The scope and scale of the Flash as a character and the book itself are just on a completely different level from Nightwing. That's not a bad thing at all, but that's why I say it should be the Flash side of things that take the lead, where Dick can actually deal with something of a higher scale for once.

The entire run. That’s what this run is. It’s not about Bludhaven, it’s not about some save the day adventure of the week, it’s about Dick. It’s about his relationships and sensibilities, it’s about how he interacts with his family and situations. Highlighting his character within that. When Dick interacted with Clark they make it a big deal because that’s the kind of moments this book wants people to focus on and see as a big deal. It is a smaller scale, it’s not doing traditional superhero save the day arcs, this is a different kind of book in that way. Where it’s the moments between its character and others, and his approach to personal challenges that’s driving the book. Where saving a dog is a big deal and resonates with readers.
This is different in approach, and I understand there is a want for Dick to be seen as a more legitimate level. But at the same time, times are changing. Stories and how they present them need to adapt. Those smaller scale character moments are what a lot of audiences like and respond to now. A hero saving the day each month, while an accomplishment on paper, that’s not what makes noise anymore. That’s not what gets remembered these days or reposted over the Internet. So if Dick is interacting with Wally, what do we want. A story where that’s the usual or a story where that’s a big deal. Cause at the end of the day that’s the draw there. That’s the sell. Dick and Wally being together.