Damian wayne robin appreciation 2022

[HsssH]

Originally he didn't met her until he was 8, and it was like seeing a celebrity. He said this in Morrison's B&R I think.

Interesting, I had completely forgotten about it. Anyone remembers which exact issue it was? Probably something from Damian vs Dick arc?

Originally Damian didn't meet Ra's until Resurrection either, he only heard stories. Now, he's also involved with his training, and even the back up clones by creating Respawn.

I prefer Ra's not being around till Damian meets Bruce.

[Fergus]

Interesting, I had completely forgotten about it. Anyone remembers which exact issue it was? Probably something from Damian vs Dick arc?



I prefer Ra's not being around till Damian meets Bruce.

I'm currently rereading Morrisons run and I haven't come across that. I don't recall that ever being the case. Damian was given over to the LOA for training but that's about it.

[Fergus]

It's this one:



Originally he didn't met her until he was 8, and it was like seeing a celebrity. He said this in Morrison's B&R I think.
Starting with New 52, she started supervising him.

Originally Damian didn't meet Ra's until Resurrection either, he only heard stories. Now, he's also involved with his training, and even the back up clones by creating Respawn.

So which one do you prefer?

I prefer Talia being present from the start and overseeing everything with Ra's not being involved. I prefer Ra's to play the role he played during the Demon's Fist arc. Not directly involved like Talia [who checks off everything re Damian and everything to do with the boy is run past her]

Ra's gets monthly reports and Damian has met him for regular assessments and other LOA mandated events/ceremonies.

Ra's has an Empire to run and that is bigger than Damian.
Talia has a future world leader to groom so their involvement should line up with their objectives/goals.

[Aahz]

It was pre Flashpoint Batman and Robin #10.

Batman and Robin #10.jpg

[Fergus]

https://terracyte.tumblr.com/post

[Fergus]

It was pre Flashpoint Batman and Robin #10.

Batman and Robin #10.jpg

So Talia was a distant mum.
No wonder Damian gave up so easily in Batman and son if he'd only known her for 2 years.

I know Morrison put a lot of theirself in Damian and his position during their break up but ir doesn't make sense that Talia would just leave such an important task to others.

Although she might have keep a careful eye on things. Monitoring from afar.

You can really tell that Damian wasn't really priority to Grant with how little he fleshed out his back ground and how he was raised.
They seemed more interested in Batman and Dick Grayson. Which is fair i guess since they were hired to write Batman not Robin.

[Konja7]

So Talia was a distant mum.
No wonder Damian gave up so easily in Batman and son if he'd only known her for 2 years.

I know Morrison put a lot of theirself in Damian and his position during their break up but ir doesn't make sense that Talia would just leave such an important task to others.

Although she might have keep a careful eye on things. Monitoring from afar.

You can really tell that Damian wasn't really priority to Grant with how little he fleshed out his back ground and how he was raised.
They seemed more interested in Batman and Dick Grayson. Which is fair i guess since they were hired to write Batman not Robin.

I think it's more about Morrison wanted to portray Talia as a distant mum than not caring about Damian. In my opinion, Morrison was still one of the best Damian's writers.

Morrison was working with the idea that Talia loves Damian (in her own way), but she won't focus on raising Damian since she was "busy" doing other things.

[HsssH]

I'd guess that one of the reasons for writing Talia like that was so that it would fit easier with an established continuity. If she wasn't around Damian much then it is easy to fit all of her past adventures in the same continuity. If she was close to Damian then it is a question how it all worked out considering that she spent lots of time in other places.

[OOPS]

I don't think the main reason was fitting into continuity. I believe she was distant in order to explore dysfunctional vs functional families, as well as fitting around the main exploration of Bruce Wayne Batman.

I thought Morrison's version of Damian was fleshed out, in terms of characterizing the results of parenting. The contrast between Dick, who had great fully involved parents, then a positive relation with Bruce and Alfred, Bruce himself who had good parents-if perhaps not as involved, Tim with neglectful uninvolved parents and Damian, who had at best intermittent parenting that crossed into child abuse. Each character acted in ways that reflected the family dynamics.

I've been going back thru the whole arc starting with Damian's introduction, and when I make sure to note Morrison's work vs the work of others, the parenr theme seems pretty, um, apparent .

[Perfidiously]

I prefer Talia being present, if distant. I think all the "work" in terms of actually raising him and teaching him was given to nannies, teachers, etc., but she oversaw it all and spent time with him when she could (though would disappear for months at a time for her own work as well). Still, I feel like she a very loving presence to Damian, but at the same time made it clear that he was expected to be perfect, and if he wasn't, ooh boy.

I like the contrast between her and Bruce as parents that way. Talia's the one who's very affectionate, calls Damian "my love", never misses a birthday duel, but she also sees him as a tool. Meanwhile, Bruce is distant, harsh, totally misses birthdays to go save the world, but would go to hell and back for him. That's why Damian sometimes wavers between the two.

[OOPS]

I prefer Talia being present, if distant. I think all the "work" in terms of actually raising him and teaching him was given to nannies, teachers, etc., but she oversaw it all and spent time with him when she could (though would disappear for months at a time for her own work as well). Still, I feel like she a very loving presence to Damian, but at the same time made it clear that he was expected to be perfect, and if he wasn't, ooh boy.

I like the contrast between her and Bruce as parents that way. Talia's the one who's very affectionate, calls Damian "my love", never misses a birthday duel, but she also sees him as a tool. Meanwhile, Bruce is distant, harsh, totally misses birthdays to go save the world, but would go to hell and back for him. That's why Damian sometimes wavers between the two.

Wow, I find it so fascinating that we can all read the same stories and come away with different interpretations...which for me is when a story crosses from being "a story" and good literature.

I don't see Talia as a loving parent at all. I see her more mercurial, and self absorbed. The loving words, much like calling Bruce beloved, where she feels them at the moment but can't commit the the daily grind. She does live both Bruce and Damian, but its not a healthy love. Three scenes for me reveal her core. 1) After Gibralter when Damian is injured, she was concerned that they hurry and repair Damian, who'd done well. But she kept walking. Next, was the confrontation when she declared Damian an enemy of House Al Ghul. She lives Damian, but if he won't be who she wants him to be, he can be thrown away. Finally, when she let Damian be killed. She had a moment, but she couldn't say stop and still achieve her priority. Also, even the language they use with each other creates distance, even when "love" words are used.

Through out the run, Damian in many ways reflects Talia. But we get to see a Talia mirror changed by the line and parenting of John and Mary Grayson....which I think also plays into the war of dynasties. With the result being the family of acrobats succeeds where the mighty AlGhuls and even the Batgod fail.

In contrast, Williamson has had Talia grow, and she has learned to let go Damian go into a healthier life.

[Konja7]

Wow, I find it so fascinating that we can all read the same stories and come away with different interpretations...which for me is when a story crosses from being "a story" and good literature.

I don't think there are two ways to read Talia raising Damian from Morrison. She was a terrible negletful (if not outright abusive) mother in Morrison's writing.

Other interpretations about Talia rising Damian would be from other writers (and fans wishes).

[Perfidiously]

I don't think there are two ways to read Talia raising Damian from Morrison. She was a terrible negletful (if not outright abusive) mother in Morrison's writing.

Other interpretations about Talia rising Damian would be from other writers (and fans wishes).

Oh, I agree that she's a terrible, abusive parent, and that there's a lot of proof for that, up to and including that she literally had Damian killed. But I don't think that's a contradiction to the fact that she loves Damian a lot? There's definitely a very self-centered aspect to it, where she views Damian as a possession more as a kid, but at the same time I don't think she was exaggerating the love or anything. I mean, she was raised by Ra's, her view on familial love and duty is clearly messed up.

Admittedly, different writers wrote it in different ways. I recently reread Robin: Son of Batman, I think I'm pulling from that in my interpretation. (And she was definitely softened up in that, to a degree I wasn't a fan of.)

[Konja7]

Oh, I agree that she's a terrible, abusive parent, and that there's a lot of proof for that, up to and including that she literally had Damian killed. But I don't think that's a contradiction to the fact that she loves Damian a lot? There's definitely a very self-centered aspect to it, where she views Damian as a possession more as a kid, but at the same time I don't think she was exaggerating the love or anything. I mean, she was raised by Ra's, her view on familial love and duty is clearly messed up.

Admittedly, different writers wrote it in different ways. I recently reread Robin: Son of Batman, I think I'm pulling from that in my interpretation. (And she was definitely softened up in that, to a degree I wasn't a fan of.)

I totally agree. Talia loves Damian in Morrison's writing too.

My point was that Talia was an absent mother in Morrison's writing (she formally met Damian when he was 8 years old). Talia being really present at Damian's upbringing cannot be read from Morrison's story.

[adrikito]

Damian will team with Red Canary. and Sideways too

https://twitter.com/bitewingg/status...97671687868422

Damian Wayne Robin Red Canary Dark Crisis.jpg