Damian wayne robin appreciation 2022

[adrikito]

I'm really loving what Williamson is doing with Conner and Damian

Connor Hawke... Conner is Superboy.

Bruce isn't smiling either. Like Father, like son XD

and speaking of Bruce and Damian...

Still surprised that is one Official Side cover.. I saw a different ship Shipper angry with it.

Perhaps even as side cover we needed Batman reaction to this. Not only Talia reaction.

Same like the duo as co parents who don't get along. I prefer Talia as an antagonist.

Same here.. Like in Selina case.. I think that works better as some kind of antagonist.

Anyway. Selina with the Batfamily is less weird that Harley knowing her past and how crazy is..

[dietrich]

As someone who does genuinely love Talia as a character...Yes, she didn't literally kill Damian but her actions were still directly responsible for his death. For all intents and purposes, she did kill him. Something he told her to her face ("Why did you kill me, Mother?"), and something that she didn't deny doing when he confronted her about it. As far as he's concerned, she did kill him. And she apparently feels the same way. She may not have been in her right mind (a revelation that I'm still not a fan of), she may not have intended for him to die (which honestly just made her look kinda stupid before the "I was actually not myself" reveal. Because...the fuck did you think was gonna happen?), but he did die. And it was because of her. The blame can be shared, but she's not free from any of it.

I am SO glad that the two seem to have a mostly positive relationship now, but there's a reason they sometimes remind me of Endeavor and Todoroki XD

That all being said, Bruce and Alfred also suck. For several reasons (including, but not limited to, what you've already brought up). Talia should never be the only one who gets the blame for Damian's problems. Because they definitely didn't stop with her. After going through four kids before Damian (and making so many mistakes with all of them) you would think that Bruce would have a handle on things by the fifth. But nope. He's still a fuck up. In fact he's kinda been fucking up with Damain worse than he did with Jason.

The closest thing Damian has to a good parental figure is Dick, but even he has his issues ("Robin can't force you to do anything anymore". Man, fuck you, Grayson)

Just like Bruce's actions resulted in Damian losing his life twice [Damian is on the Island because of Bruce and city of bane]. Dick/Alfred made him Robin. The mitigating action that led to him dying the 1st time.

Yet Talia is the only one fans ever pull out the whole 'was the reason why Damian died' card for. Hmmm.

[dietrich]

Eh, I don't think Talia being as bad as her father ever worked for her. I'm always hoping she'll have her sanity restored, but a lot of fans have been conditioned to think she was always like this now.

I remember the little Damien Wayne stories they made for younger readers which tried to teach kids how to live life in the company of separated parents, Talia was a sweetheart in it

lil Gotham was a gem.

RSOB tried to restored her sanity but Writers in rebirth seem to be keen on Morrison's take.

I never found Talia the love interest who was gag over Bruce very interesting. Bruce is a man child. It never made sense to me how a woman like Talia was ever interested in him. Talia's goal's and dreams always were far bigger than batman.

Her character should be so much more than a love interest for batman, Honey pot for Ra's or Baby mama.

[dietrich]

WHAT?? I do not see Batman as one good parent neither.. I said it before. I was just saying that In that image Batman is who looked like a Real parent here.

I do not see any reason to blame Alfred for anything. It would be like blame Dick Grayson.

I know that Bruce is a problem too.. I do not want BATMAN as Damian future anymore. Be Nightwing would be better for him. Also. Batman 666 showed until which point is a bad idea.

Like Dick Grayson I madurated when is about Batman.

Alfred sent Damian away when he was 10 because he wanted Bruce to be happy. [RSOB]
Alfred deliberately gambled with Damian's life just to make Bruce's life easier [City of Bane]
Alfred is the reason why Damian is currently traumatised and entered a death match.
Alfred is the reason why everyone blames Damian for the death of their surrogate grandfather.

how do you ignore all that which happened more recently than batman Inc?!
Alfred is an uncaring shit while Dick Grayson is a nurturing and caring parental figure who stands on his own when it comes to adults and their treatment of Damian Wayne.

In that panel Bruce doesn't look like a 'real' parent. he doesn't even look like a good Parent since his actions that were citied in the panel aren't those of a good parent.

[adrikito]

Alfred sent Damian away when he was 10 because he wanted Bruce to be happy. [RSOB]
Alfred deliberately gambled with Damian's life just to make Bruce's life easier [City of Bane]
Alfred is the reason why Damian is currently traumatised and entered a death match.
Alfred is the reason why everyone blames Damian for the death of their surrogate grandfather.

how do you ignore all that which happened more recently than batman Inc?!
Alfred is an uncaring shit while Dick Grayson is a nurturing and caring parental figure who stands on his own when it comes to adults and their treatment of Damian Wayne.

In that panel Bruce doesn't look like a 'real' parent. he doesn't even look like a good Parent since his actions that were citied in the panel aren't those of a good parent.

-Terrible knowing that Damian was a Kid but.. The first sounds likes Alfre in FATHER Plan with Bruce.. Is not like we can complain because RSOB was great.
-It was not Alfred who gambled him..
-Is Damian who decided it.. Alfred Ghost was against all this and tried to convince him about ask for Damian help.
-Those who hate Damian like blame him for everything.. Tim fans are still in that DAMIAN ALMOST KILLED TIM. Why blame the victim here?? Alfred has been dead FOR YEARS.

Today I even saw one Damian fan complaining about Robin.. Why?? A Damijon shipper who saw Robin 15 solicitation.. Even fans can complain if everything is not according what they want.


I can´t remember Batman INC in this point..

HIS ACTIONS?? It was Talia who started this.. I just said that she did not showed regret about it that time.

Surprised that you defend a villain like Talia while you even blame Alfred for things that were not his decisions. He did not gambled Damian(Bane had him.. and killed him) neither forced him to participate in Lazarus Tournament. His Ghost said that he needed Batman help.

[Matt Rat]

RSOB tried to restored her sanity but Writers in rebirth seem to be keen on Morrison's take.

I recall that. Would have been nice if that stuck. Morrison's recent newsletters indicate there's too much of a chasm to reset it all now, which is why nobody's really trying to at the moment. Easier drama to milk I suppose, you can't give Damien what he wants otherwise he loses his 'edge'

I never found Talia the love interest who was gag over Bruce very interesting. Bruce is a man child. It never made sense to me how a woman like Talia was ever interested in him. Talia's goal's and dreams always were far bigger than batman.

A lot of female interests see Bruce doing so much bigger, better things, and not just with his life, but his mission too. Talia would want to expand that mission beyond an unsalvageable city and Bruce holds on to the hope for said city. I still think a sane Talia would see merit in that and just do her own thing while trying to reconcile Bruce and her father.

I mean, I'm not a hardcore Talia/Bruce 'shipper, I'm Bat/Cat and WonderBat pedigee all the way, but I'd like Bruce to be more up to the task of a well rounded family man.

[dietrich]

[QUOTE=adrikito;5975648]

-Terrible knowing that Damian was a Kid but.. The first sounds likes Alfre in FATHER Plan with Bruce.. Is not like we can complain because RSOB was great.

No. Bruce lost his memory it was all on Alfred. it was Alfred's Plan nothing to do with Bruce.

Yes we can complain. by your logic you can't complain about Talia making being responsible for Damian's death or being a bad mum since if it wasn't for his death and horrid upbringing then Rsob would never have happened. damian would have no year of blood to atone for.

-It was not Alfred who gambled him..

it was. Alfred made the gamble to lie and force/trick Bruce into ordering Damian to cross battle ground. Damian would never have been there had it not been for Alfred.

-Is Damian who decided it.. Alfred Ghost was against all this and tried to convince him about ask for Damian help.

Yes a decision stemming from PTSD of watching Alfred die combined with the emotional burden of his family making him believe he is responsible for Alfred's death. both of those are due to Alfred's action's. Alfred is the cause.

-Those who hate Damian like blame him for everything.. Tim fans are still in that DAMIAN ALMOST KILLED TIM. Why blame the victim here?? Alfred has been dead FOR YEARS.

this has nothing to do with Tim fans or any fans.
Jason blamed Damian for Alfred's death
Damian blames himself and his family didn't correct when he voiced this guilt in front of them despite all but Dick and Jason being fully aware that Damian was only following orders.

Alfred made his choice so he wasn't a victim in the way you make it seem. he choose to commit heroic suicide. he told us that he had picked that day to die.

Even if Alfred was a victim that doesn't mean Damian isn't also a victim of Alfred's. YOU ARE THE ONE BLAMING THE VICTIM WITH YOUR STATEMENTS ABOVE.

I can´t remember Batman INC in this point..

HIS ACTIONS?? It was Talia who started this.. I just said that she did not showed regret about it that time.

She did show regret though just not in that panel.

Surprised that you defend a villain like Talia while you even blame Alfred for things that were not his decisions. He did not gambled Damian(Bane had him.. and killed him) neither forced him to participate in Lazarus Tournament. His Ghost said that he needed Batman help.

You should go read Batman 77 again. It seems you have forgotten what actually happened. not only was it Alfred's decision. he lied to make sure it was his decision and to ensure things played out exactly as he planned.

You keep repeating the clean up/damage control story of Alfred's Ghost in Robin while making every effort to ignore the clean up/damage control story of talia's madness from that series you love so much. RSOB.

it's not so much defending Talia as equal shamming.
I hate fans trying to vilify Talia almost as much as i hate fans trying to act like she is a good mum/ good guy who was heel turned by Morrison.

Talia is and has always been a grey character morally dubious . similarly Bruce and Alfred are equally morally dubious.

Alfred in particular is a bad man who only cares for Master Bruce.

[adrikito]

YES. I liked RSOB but...Not everyone is enough lucky to be somehow redeemed later by Another writer for take Bad actions.. For what you said about Alfred decisions..

Jason is the other Black Sheep of the batmily. Of course that he quickly blamed the one who watched Alfred dead.

Anyway with Talia is redeem her for then show that is IMPOSSIBLE even contain her Evil ways with her own son. In Supersons she put one sword in Damian throat.. What a way to say Hello to your son.


LET´S BETTER STOP THIS.. Is a waste of time. DC ruined me Talia quickly when I started reading comics and nothing changed my mind about her during long time.

Also. I do not like Ra´s or Ruh neither as persons. Is not only her. I just liked Ra´s design in Robin run. But I never liked him and I prefer Deathstroke or Bane as Batman Equal not Ra´s.

[dietrich]

I recall that. Would have been nice if that stuck. Morrison's recent newsletters indicate there's too much of a chasm to reset it all now, which is why nobody's really trying to at the moment. Easier drama to milk I suppose, you can't give Damien what he wants otherwise he loses his 'edge'



A lot of female interests see Bruce doing so much bigger, better things, and not just with his life, but his mission too. Talia would want to expand that mission beyond an unsalvageable city and Bruce holds on to the hope for said city. I still think a sane Talia would see merit in that and just do her own thing while trying to reconcile Bruce and her father.

I mean, I'm not a hardcore Talia/Bruce 'shipper, I'm Bat/Cat and WonderBat pedigee all the way, but I'd like Bruce to be more up to the task of a well rounded family man.

Robin Son of Batman highlights the fallacy in that.

Beloved by Damian fans and has Talia as a good mum on good terms with Damian.

The truth is that it's nothing to do with Damian and/or his maintaining his 'edge'.
The writers who defaulted to super villain Talia simply like her like that.

Priest
King
Bendis

The 3 notable writers who ignored what Gleason tried to do. 3 key story arcs that had nothing to do with maintaining Damian's edge.

They were about advancing Slade Wilson
Batcat's relationship
Jimmy Olsen and Manhunter.

Nothing to do with Damian.

Now we have Williamson. Maybe the problem is that Morrison is a writers writers so where they go fanboy writers inevitably follow.

I enjoy Talia as a villain. DC/Gotham is lacking in serious female antagonists. Full on baddies not anti heroes.

[dietrich]

YES. I liked RSOB but...Not everyone is enough lucky to be somehow redeemed later by Another writer for take Bad actions.. For what you said about Alfred decisions..

Jason is the other Black Sheep of the batmily. Of course that he quickly blamed the one who watched Alfred dead.

Anyway with Talia is redeem her for then show that is IMPOSSIBLE even contain her Evil ways with her own son. In Supersons she put one sword in Damian throat.. What a way to say Hello to your son.


LET´S BETTER STOP THIS.. Is a waste of time. DC ruined me Talia quickly when I started reading comics and nothing changed my mind about her during long time.

Also. I do not like Ra´s or Ruh neither as persons. Is not only her. I just liked Ra´s design in Robin run. But I never liked him and I prefer Deathstroke or Bane as Batman Equal not Ra´s.

Stop making excuses. WTF! Jason is the one person in that batfamily who most definitely shouldn't make that comment.

Come on. Jason isn't stupid. Why would he blame the one who was present? Jason isn't an idiot. he knows better. He also should have known better than to blame a 13 year old for the death of a family member while ignorant of the facts.

What the hell!

sword to the throat is probably how they say hello in the LOA hence why Damian wasn't phased by it.

Do you know what phased Damian though? His father letting him take the fall for his father's fatal mistake.

Disliking Talia or any character is fair. We all digest fiction subjectively. I'm just saying Talia isn't the only parental figure who creates problems for Damian so not sure why she's the one you constantly keep dragging for this particular sin.

[dietrich]

Same here.. Like in Selina case.. I think that works better as some kind of antagonist.

Anyway. Selina with the Batfamily is less weird that Harley knowing her past and how crazy is..

Also prefer Selina as an antagonist. I ship Bruce with peaceful ever after. A single dad surrounded by love.

Selina reformed in her old age might fit into that loving family that surrounds old Bruce.

[adrikito]

Disliking Talia or any character is fair. We all digest fiction subjectively. I'm just saying Talia isn't the only parental figure who creates problems for Damian so not sure why she's the one you constantly keep dragging for this particular sin.

I said that I understand that batman is not a good parent neither.. Why continue with this?

Like Dick Grayson I madurated and I do not see Bruce with the same eyes that I saw him many years ago when I was younger.

[dietrich]

I said that I understand that batman is not a good parent neither.. Why continue with this?

Like Dick Grayson I madurated and I do not see Bruce with the same eyes that I saw him many years ago when I was younger.

It got extended because we weren't/aren't only talking about Bruce.
We were discussing other points as well not just the portion you highlighted and quoted.

[Restingvoice]

Playing mobile game DC Worlds Collide, got Damian from my first ten pulls. He's an Epic rank Agility attacker using 2 katanas as a standard attack and Target Weakness using his red batarang. His ultimate move is called Son of The Demon where slices at an enemy multiple times.

Anyway, that's all pretty standard, the game is set during Forever Evil where Batman and Catwoman as the only survivor broke into a STAR Lab and make it their base, and from there summoned friends from all over the world.

Characters you get can randomly show up on the lab lounge and say some stuffs. It was Damian's turn to show on the lounge and he said "Don't give up on me, father"

Did not expect that stab through the heart from Born to Kill.

[Rac7d*]

Damian is getting a pride cover too???
A0FB6164-B7C2-46E5-AC15-4448D309F0DB.jpg
Proably him and Jon, gonna set some fan wild since the other alternative is with Nika