Damian wayne robin appreciation 2022

[dietrich]

I think Tim would do good in real detective stories, like with a nice mystery, he being more weak but with a smart brain and being a nice guy he already is, but I feel like DC writers are very bad, like the plot and plot twists can't keep a mystery story.

Totally agree. Sadly writers are find of telling us how smart Tim is and a few have shown us demonstrably.

This won't work in a detective series. Effort and thought is required to tell a good detective story and few writers these days seem able/willing to put in the effort.

Likely why Batman these days seldom focus on him being a detective. The very thing that defines the character. Batman is first and foremost, a Detective. The Worlds Greatest Detective. He should have real detective stories.

[Konja7]

We later found out that Damian was meant to go full bad guy get replaced [he was by Tim as we saw in Fear State] and the heel turn was to carry over into FS.

I just want to mention that we don't know whether the original plan was that Tim would replace Damian as Robin. Bendis original plan seems to have been for Tim to move on from Robin too. That's why he created the Drake identity, but it was pretty unpopular.

Tim is Robin in Fear State, but this happened after many changes. After all, Damian doesn't appear in Fear State, when the original plan was that he will be a villain.

I suspect the original plan for 5G was that neither Damian nor Tim would be Robin. It would make sense, since they would likely want Jace to have his own Robin.

[Rebeca Armus]

Totally agree. Sadly writers are find of telling us how smart Tim is and a few have shown us demonstrably.

This won't work in a detective series. Effort and thought is required to tell a good detective story and few writers these days seem able/willing to put in the effort.

Likely why Batman these days seldom focus on him being a detective. The very thing that defines the character. Batman is first and foremost, a Detective. The Worlds Greatest Detective. He should have real detective stories.

Now Bruce's main focus is being a bad parent... U.u

I think because this enormous universe Batman can't keep a real detective level in main story, the technology is to high, the conflicts are too magic and powerful, but this is good for many reasons (like sell...), and give a empty place for a real detective come in, Tim would do good on this...

I Think Damian would be great keeping stories with good fights and learning life lessons, and more happiness... I am not reading Robin because I saw Ra's death and Bruce's talk.

*and I think the fights can get better, I hate when they make us super excited about the fight that is coming and when the comic finally arrives this is "méh"

[Rebeca Armus]

I just want to mention that we don't know whether the original plan was that Tim would replace Damian as Robin. Bendis original plan seems to have been for Tim to move on from Robin too. That's why he created the Drake identity, but it was pretty unpopular.

Tim is Robin in Fear State, but this happened after many changes. After all, Damian doesn't appear in Fear State, when the original plan was that he will be a villain.

I suspect the original plan for 5G was that neither Damian nor Tim would be Robin. It would make sense, since they would likely want Jace to have his own Robin.

Do you guys think "Drake" didn't work just for being "Drake" if Tim got a nice name like "Nightwing" he would be capable of letting "Robin" behind and keep a new identity?
I think we talked about what could be a good name for him and got no conclusion.

... who is Jace?

[Jackalope89]

Do you guys think "Drake" didn't work just for being "Drake" if Tim got a nice name like "Nightwing" he would be capable of letting "Robin" behind and keep a new identity?
I think we talked about what could be a good name for him and got no conclusion.

... who is Jace?

"Drake" didn't work for several reasons. Top 3 being; 1. Tim had been Red Robin in a successful series. 2. Using his surname as a superhero name is pretty stupid. 3. Rather than the dragon version of Drake, Bendis was absolutely clear it was the duck version, the "most dangerous bird". Cue the Darkwing Duck jokes. Except Darkwing Duck was meant to be funny.

And Jace is the little known oldest son of Lucius Fox. Pops up in Gotham Future State.

[Digifiend]

If DC was really so obsessed with Tim, why hasn't he had a single Red Robin or Robin one shot (not even to speak of a mini series) since flash point?

Actually, there's one solicited!

What is Tim's current Identity?

Robin.

Do you guys think "Drake" didn't work just for being "Drake" if Tim got a nice name like "Nightwing" he would be capable of letting "Robin" behind and keep a new identity?
I think we talked about what could be a good name for him and got no conclusion.

... who is Jace?

Jace is Tim Fox, Luke's long lost brother. He's now the Batman of New York and stars in I Am Batman.

[Aahz]

Actually, there's one solicited!

Afaik that's a collection of the story from Urban Legends, with one additional story added. Not sure if that qualifies as a one shot.

And even if, that would be the first one in more than 10 years.

Just compare that to the amount of books Damian had, and that are already solicited with him.

And during these 10 years, DC put out solo series with Characters like Talon, two Batwings, Azrael and even Bat-Mite, and while Tim was only ever on team books with pretty large casts.

[CPSparkles]

I just want to mention that we don't know whether the original plan was that Tim would replace Damian as Robin. Bendis original plan seems to have been for Tim to move on from Robin too. That's why he created the Drake identity, but it was pretty unpopular.

Tim is Robin in Fear State, but this happened after many changes. After all, Damian doesn't appear in Fear State, when the original plan was that he will be a villain.

I suspect the original plan for 5G was that neither Damian nor Tim would be Robin. It would make sense, since they would likely want Jace to have his own Robin.

Of course Damian was never going to be Robin in FS why would he and who said he would? No one would have ever expected Damian to be robin to Jace or even Tim to be still Robin in FS.

This is clearly a Damian redraw from Fear State [taken from Fear State a series that had a lot of which Robin errors that had several errors where the dialogue says Damian but the panel shows a hoodless Damian passed off as Tim]



Glass never said anything about Future State.

Future state and Fear State aren't the same.

Fans simply assumed that when Glass talked about the mandate to force Damian out of the Robin Role they were talking about Future State.

They forget that decision was made before Jon was aged up. Before Future state was announced.

I wasn't talking about Future State.

[CPSparkles]

Now Bruce's main focus is being a bad parent... U.u

I think because this enormous universe Batman can't keep a real detective level in main story, the technology is to high, the conflicts are too magic and powerful, but this is good for many reasons (like sell...), and give a empty place for a real detective come in, Tim would do good on this...

I Think Damian would be great keeping stories with good fights and learning life lessons, and more happiness... I am not reading Robin because I saw Ra's death and Bruce's talk.

*and I think the fights can get better, I hate when they make us super excited about the fight that is coming and when the comic finally arrives this is "méh"

Damian currently HAS a good series with good fights where he is learning life lessons which you don't support because of Ra's death!

That is a strange comment from someone who want's Damian to

would be great keeping stories with good fights and learning life lessons, and more happiness.

I don't understand.

PS

Bruce shouldn't be a Bad Father he should be a decent father and a Detective.

He was created to be a Detective.

He has been a Detective for over 80 years
He has been a father for over 80 years

That is the recipe to his success which is why fans have been lamenting for decades about the Batjerk they turned him into.

Why fans are so pleased that the new Batman movie focused on Batman being more of a detective movie.

[CPSparkles]

Do you guys think "Drake" didn't work just for being "Drake" if Tim got a nice name like "Nightwing" he would be capable of letting "Robin" behind and keep a new identity?
I think we talked about what could be a good name for him and got no conclusion.

... who is Jace?

Drake can work. It sounds cooler than Robin and Red Robin. The fact that it's his surname doesn't matter as long as the writers don't make it matter.

The real reason why Drake didn't work is that Fans didn't want him to be moved away from anything Robinish. It's a knee jerk reaction that we fans had. It was the same with Red Robin and even Nightwing back in the day.

Fans like the familiar and tend to reject anything new. That is just human nature. If Drake had been given a chance and some good stories then it could have worked similar to how Red Robin eventually worked.

Sure there would still be the Duckboy jokes like the Red Robin Yum!

[Restingvoice]

Now Bruce's main focus is being a bad parent... U.u

I think because this enormous universe Batman can't keep a real detective level in main story, the technology is to high, the conflicts are too magic and powerful, but this is good for many reasons (like sell...), and give a empty place for a real detective come in, Tim would do good on this...

I Think Damian would be great keeping stories with good fights and learning life lessons, and more happiness... I am not reading Robin because I saw Ra's death and Bruce's talk.

*and I think the fights can get better, I hate when they make us super excited about the fight that is coming and when the comic finally arrives this is "méh"

He can still be a detective if they want it but it seems they equate Batman title with epic

Snyder likes making his story bigger than before
Tynion probably followed on that
But when it was Morrison and Daniel the Batman title was mainly a mystery with the epic reserved for Batman Inc
King made it a romance though he still has some detective short arcs
Haven't read Williamson

[Aahz]

The real reason why Drake didn't work is that Fans didn't want him to be moved away from anything Robinish. It's a knee jerk reaction that we fans had. It was the same with Red Robin and even Nightwing back in the day.

Maybe but the name change was also not handled that well, Tim just changed the name without much build up, and the costume was also pretty bad.

I think one big problem that they kind of missed the opportunity to really give Tim his own identity, when they just made him "Red Robin" after R.I.P. instead of coming up with something more unique (without "Robin" in the name) and a real change of his status quo.

[Rebeca Armus]

Damian currently HAS a good series with good fights where he is learning life lessons which you don't support because of Ra's death!

That is a strange comment from someone who want's Damian to

would be great keeping stories with good fights and learning life lessons, and more happiness.

I don't understand.

PS

Bruce shouldn't be a Bad Father he should be a decent father and a Detective.

He was created to be a Detective.

He has been a Detective for over 80 years
He has been a father for over 80 years

That is the recipe to his success which is why fans have been lamenting for decades about the Batjerk they turned him into.

Why fans are so pleased that the new Batman movie focused on Batman being more of a detective movie.

I was preeetty happy with "Robin" hapiness until Damian decided not bring Alfred back, and the discussion with Talia, but still want to continue it, so I saw Ras death and Bruce's line in a spoiler on ig.
I think I am kind upset for personal reasons and the things that are happening in Europa right now and see family problems in fiction is giving a more bad feeling than should :/
I really wanted Alfred back and the thing is: instead of it Damian saw another grandfather die in front of him and I think this was unnecessary...
I know Bruce is kind a detective, but now he investigates Magic Books or Aliens or have a computer that is so smart that take out a true investigation of a real detective, but they it's part of DC big universe since many years.
And about he being a good parent, I think he is being terrible since much time ago, when I started comics in 2008 he was already terrible and when I see something with Dick or Jason before is the same.

[CPSparkles]

I was preeetty happy with "Robin" hapiness until Damian decided not bring Alfred back, and the discussion with Talia, but still want to continue it, so I saw Ras death and Bruce's line in a spoiler on ig.
I think I am kind upset for personal reasons and the things that are happening in Europa right now and see family problems in fiction is giving a more bad feeling than should :/
I really wanted Alfred back and the thing is: instead of it Damian saw another grandfather die in front of him and I think this was unnecessary...
I know Bruce is kind a detective, but now he investigates Magic Books or Aliens or have a computer that is so smart that take out a true investigation of a real detective, but they it's part of DC big universe since many years.
And about he being a good parent, I think he is being terrible since much time ago, when I started comics in 2008 he was already terrible and when I see something with Dick or Jason before is the same.

Man I'm sorry you didn't have to go into your personal. Sucks that Robin is bringing up such made memories. Understandable why you'd wish to avoid it.

Batman being a bad parent dates back to Dick Grayson's era.

Dc really loves torturing the Bat Family. no happiness for them seems to be their motto.

[CPSparkles]

Maybe but the name change was also not handled that well, Tim just changed the name without much build up, and the costume was also pretty bad.

I think one big problem that they kind of missed the opportunity to really give Tim his own identity, when they just made him "Red Robin" after R.I.P. instead of coming up with something more unique (without "Robin" in the name) and a real change of his status quo.

I agree. DC missed that opportunity.