Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2022

[Digifiend]

With this costume, recurring elements they've retained from previous costumes are the red/yellow color scheme, exposed blonde hair, goggles and jacket. The color scheme is fine, but overlaps with the Flashes. The goggles are good, but overlap with Impulse a little (as does chin strap). The jacket is distinct, but not a good fit for a character who's a runner. The long blonde hair is good, but for a runner it makes more sense tied back into a ponytail (as was the case with a couple of previous looks). Then they've added a couple of Barry Allen Flash elements, like the big yellow boots and the emblem.

The costume is essentially a slight variation on the costume she wore in Terminal Velocity. But in that story, she was wearing that costume under the premise that Wally might die and she would replace him as the new Flash (which, it turned out, was a bait and switch). That wasn't Jesse Chambers wearing a Jesse Quick costume, that was Jesse Chambers wearing a Flash costume.

It's just not a very well thought out costume if they want her to be a distinct character. Maybe they don't want her to be a distinct character, maybe they just want her to be another Flash.

I think you're right. She's one of three female Flashes, despite using a different codename. The other two being Avery Ho (Flash of China) and Irey West (Impulse II). Note that her Arrowverse costume also used the Flash emblem instead of a unique one. It also had pants.

[Frontier]

I mean, just in the 21st century, we saw Huntress (Bertenelli) go from wearing a costume that covered up her whole body (and was featured while she was a part of Morrisson's JLA run) to suddenly wearing one in which she not only had bare legs, but a bare midriff, for no other reason than Jim Lee thought she needed a sexier look. I'm aware her first look had bare arms and upper thighs, but 1) she wore long gloves and high boots, and 2) she didn't have a bare midriff. And yeah, when Gail Simone had her start appearing in Birds of Prey, she had Huntress give a reason for it when Dinah asked her about it ("800 stomach crunches a day" or something), but that's Gail acknowledging that in-universe, there needed to be a reason for it that wasn't "because a male designer wanted more male fans to drool over me."

Gail Simone seemed to have an interesting dynamic with comic book cheesecake.

I once saw an argument between Cassandra Cain fans and a particularly hateful anti-fan of Cass/fan of Barbara-as-Batgirl in which the anti-fan admitted that he'd be more likely to give Cass a chance as Batgirl if her costume was altered to be "more feminine" in appearance.

The only time I didn't like a Cass costume was her Orphan costume with those baggy pants, no cape/ears, and too much yellow.

I still remember to this day when some fan (I think it was when DC had message boards on their site) demanded that Kendra Saunders be killed off and immediately replaced with a resurrected Shiera Hall simply because he found Kendra less sexually appealing visually (he hated her short brown hair and her smaller breasts and hips) than he found Shiera (long red hair, bigger breasts and hips/ass). That was it. One woman HAD to die because he didn't think she was hot enough.

Which is a weird point to make because I feel like physically they're usually the same aside from the hair. I mean, nothing against long red hair, but Kendra's works the same way Catwoman's modern hair works (although I think Selina works with long hair too). But I tend to not differentiate between the two much.

Black Canary & fishnets, hell, Zatanna and fishnets, too. A lot of fans fetishize those 'nets WAY too much. Hell, the appreciation thread for Canary is mostly artists' sketches of her.

I don't know about "fetishize" but I think it's seen as an important part of their character visuals (and their non-fishnet costumes never stick around permanently). And they receive a lot of fanart because of how popular the characters and their looks are.

And going across the aisle to Marvel, I got two words: Carol Danvers. More than a few fans didn't even TRY to disguise that their unhappiness with her redesign after taking the name "Captain Marvel" was because her new costume covered up her assets or that she now had shorter hair. Some guy wrote a polemic about his "God-given right" to look at cheesecake art whenever he wanted and how Carol's new costume and hair infringed upon that right.

I think with Carol, at least for me, it depends on what kind of character you see her as. Because as Captain Marvel and Ms. Marvel she was a bit of a different character with different sensibilities, and some of that went into her costume.

I still think that Dave Cockrum black suit was an amazing piece of design work (however prone to cheesecake it was from later artists) but I think the Captain Marvel suit is great too.

Point being, if I see somebody make a passive-aggressive remark about "if Jesse Quick *has* to wear pants," and it's obvious nobody would EVER make that remark about any of the male Flash Family members, I get suspicious.

What about the other female Flash members? I think Avery's costume is fine as is. But Jesse has had more of a costume history by comparison.

[Lee]

I think you're right. She's one of three female Flashes, despite using a different codename. The other two being Avery Ho (Flash of China) and Irey West (Impulse II). Note that her Arrowverse costume also used the Flash emblem instead of a unique one. It also had pants.

In the TV show's universe, her backstory and origin were tied in with The Flash, so it made sense there. In the comics her origins are tied to Johnny Quick and Liberty Belle, and she's predominantly been used as a Justice Society character, which is also rooted in 1940s comics lore. So giving her a Silver Age style Flash costume and emblem doesn't sit right with me. That's not who the character is or where she comes from.

[Dred]

A moment of silence that CW did more Flash contents than any DC properties.

An entire generation ruined by a terrible adaptation.

[Frontier]

An entire generation ruined by a terrible adaptation.

Well, also an entire new generation who probably got into The Flash through the show and possibly discovered the comics, including Wally's runs.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I think it should be a matter of whether a look is aesthetically pleasing or memorable. If you can capture a look that does that, fully clothed or otherswise, and is true to the character than you have a winner.

But your mileage may vary.

Yeah, but other than that you also have to take into account if said costume represents visually what the character is about, how it looks when put side by side with the characters she or he will mainly interact - and this is both a visual thing as it is a placement/status thing - if said costume creates problems of any nature here in the outside world, if it's adaptable - and, if so, how easily - if it's strong enough to carry some market value should the need arise and THEN there's a bunch of technical stuff that would bore you all. (Artists are heroes for doing this stuff in such an instinctive way - sorta). Tights are complex business.

In the comics her origins are tied to Johnny Quick and Liberty Belle, and she's predominantly been used as a Justice Society character, which is also rooted in 1940s comics lore. So giving her a Silver Age style Flash costume and emblem doesn't sit right with me. That's not who the character is or where she comes from.

Yeah, not quite. Jesse was created in 1992 as a legacy hero. In 1994 or 1995 she was already in a Flash costume, in the Flash book (as were Johnny, and Max), and wiling to be the Flash. About 98 or 99 the main place for seeing her became Titans, where she took Wally's spot, and that remained true until Graduation day. She was only predominantly a JSA character when she was Liberty Belle, and that was, I think, from 2006 to 2009 or something like that. And she's not in a silver age suit by any means. She is in leather paints, with kneepads, a jacket and goggles. For a legacy character created in 92, if you ask me, that's even a little bit too much what she's about.

[married guy]

I always liked this one...

jesse3.jpg

[Digifiend]

Yeah, not quite. Jesse was created in 1992 as a legacy hero. In 1994 or 1995 she was already in a Flash costume, in the Flash book (as were Johnny, and Max), and wiling to be the Flash. About 98 or 99 the main place for seeing her became Titans, where she took Wally's spot, and that remained true until Graduation day. She was only predominantly a JSA character when she was Liberty Belle, and that was, I think, from 2006 to 2009 or something like that. And she's not in a silver age suit by any means. She is in leather paints, with kneepads, a jacket and goggles. For a legacy character created in 92, if you ask me, that's even a little bit too much what she's about.

To 2010 I think, due to story overlap. She had a backup in Justice Society of America called Liberty Belle and Hourman, but by the time it had finished, she'd moved over to the JLA and gone back to being Jesse Quick, in a costume similar to Johnny's. Of course the JLA team in question featured several other Titans (Dick, Donna, Cyborg was there briefly too).

[Superboy-Prime]

I just remember Jesse having an affair with her mom's boyfriend.

[Frontier]

Yeah, but other than that you also have to take into account if said costume represents visually what the character is about, how it looks when put side by side with the characters she or he will mainly interact - and this is both a visual thing as it is a placement/status thing - if said costume creates problems of any nature here in the outside world, if it's adaptable - and, if so, how easily - if it's strong enough to carry some market value should the need arise and THEN there's a bunch of technical stuff that would bore you all. (Artists are heroes for doing this stuff in such an instinctive way - sorta). Tights are complex business.

True. I think it's also a thing that's very case-by-case dependent even if peoples' biases are involved to a certain extent.

I guess one quantifier is how much fanart a character gets and in what costume, but that might not be definitive.

[Drako]

I like this new costume for Jesse, but while i agree she should use her father's logo in the chest, the problem is that his logo is boring and uninteresting looking. They should try and redesign it.

[ducklord]

I just remember Jesse having an affair with her mom's boyfriend.

I think everyone's decided to shovel that story into the memory hole. Along with the DEOrphans (shudder).

[BohemiaDrinker]

True. I think it's also a thing that's very case-by-case dependent even if peoples' biases are involved to a certain extent.

I guess one quantifier is how much fanart a character gets and in what costume, but that might not be definitive.

About fanart: if I ever was commissioned to design a superhero uniform, I'd probably look at fan art as a clue of what traits of a character people like, and try to incorporate that into whatever demand the client has. But looking at it just as a popularity termometer is a recipe for failure.

[Frontier]

About fanart: if I ever was commissioned to design a superhero uniform, I'd probably look at fan art as a clue of what traits of a character people like, and try to incorporate that into whatever demand the client has. But looking at it just as a popularity termometer is a recipe for failure.

I think most fan artists tend to default to the traditional looks or stuff very reflective of them.

[LAWtoyoto 432]

FUMCPbBXEAsVjw3.jpg

The cover for Flash#786 by Taurin Clarke .