Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2022

[Dioman-san]

Well deserved, i hope Adams will stay a long time.

[Johnny]

And that's because back in the day, most people didn't really want Barry Allen to return. It was sacrilegious, and Wally was extremely popular. DiDio thought the move would turn out as well as what they did with Green Lantern, but it wasn't even remotely the same situation. As popular as Kyle was, he never reached the storytelling heights Wally did, and also, Hal Jordan was a character that was massively shit on, not unlike Wally was until recently. Barry Allen died as savior of the universe and was left as a saint in eternal glory with the highest honor a hero could ever achieve.

Also, in GL they didn't do stupid stuff like "Hal Jordan created the Central Battery", and trying to prove desperately that Hal was better than Kyle.

Yeah when people bring up "Silver Age nostalgia", whatever the hell that means, I can at least understand the argument when it comes to Barry. He got the best sendoff in comics and his successor turned out to be arguably the best example of how legacy should be handled. Barry wasn't done wrong like Hal was, so with him I get the sentiment about DiDio wanting his favorite Flash back.

Hell, even Hal himself told Kyle in Hal 'N Pals that Kyle was the best Lantern.

[BohemiaDrinker]

And that's because back in the day, most people didn't really want Barry Allen to return. It was sacrilegious, and Wally was extremely popular. DiDio thought the move would turn out as well as what they did with Green Lantern, but it wasn't even remotely the same situation. As popular as Kyle was, he never reached the storytelling heights Wally did, and also, Hal Jordan was a character that was massively shit on, not unlike Wally was until recently. Barry Allen died as savior of the universe and was left as a saint in eternal glory with the highest honor a hero could ever achieve.

I won't say "most people" because I have no way of knowing: as popular as Wally was (and is still, miraculously, after all the sabotage), my impression is that unless one was really invested in the Flash lore of the post Crisis era, they could roll with it. That said, yeah, resurrecting Barry back then was way more taboo than any other character.

But I don't think that Barry's resurrection alone was responsible for the franchise underperforming compared to their projections at that point. You're right that whatever wound Barry's death had left had already mostly healed, and that whatever outcry still existed for his return was way lower than Jordan's, for a variety of reasons, but Flash: Rebirth made really clear that if you liked the then last 20 years of Flash comics, well, sucks to be you. Alienating your pre-built consumer base is not a good business practice.

Had they looked at their audience with just a little more attention, it could have worked as well as GL did. But they made way too many wrong judgement calls, both in story content itself and marketing and promotion.

And yeah, Didio went a little bit out of his way to be a dick about it: I don't know how much that hurt the franchise at that initial moment, but it sure as hell didn't help.

[PennyDreadful]

Well, in all fairness, the only time I remember DC really promoting the Flash was at the time of Flash: Rebirth. And the results they got for it - a rise of about 8 to 10 k units compared to Flash average sales - doesn't seem to justify it. One may argue that that was because Flash: Rebirth was shit, and sure, it really was, but I doubt the bean counters at DC look at it from this angle.

But Flash: Rebirth was a decade ago.

I also think one reason is that Human Target is written by one of their "star" writers.

[Leancarp900]

Yeah when people bring up "Silver Age nostalgia", whatever the hell that means, I can at least understand the argument when it comes to Barry. He got the best sendoff in comics and his successor turned out to be arguably the best example of how legacy should be handled. Barry wasn't done wrong like Hal was, so with him I get the sentiment about DiDio wanting his favorite Flash back.

Hell, even Hal himself told Kyle in Hal 'N Pals that Kyle was the best Lantern.

According to interviews Morrison and Ethan Van Sciver were the ones who pushed for Barry to be resurrected at the time. Probably Johns too. Surprisingly, DiDio was the one who was skeptical.

At the time DC was pretty desperate with the Flash franchise because Flash: Fastest Man Alive and Mark Waid's return in 2007 or so didn't live up to expectations, so I think they were hoping Barry's return would give the franchise a similar boost to the one Green Lantern got when Hal came back (with the same creative team).

After that, DiDio just thought Wally was redundant if Barry was back because "they are the same character" (in his own words). Everything that happened with Heroes in Crisis or Flash Forward was probably just an attempt to drive sales up through outrage, akin to what Marvel is doing with Ben Reilly nowadays. Remember DiDio was, well, a troll.

[Maxi]

According to interviews Morrison and Ethan Van Sciver were the ones who pushed for Barry to be resurrected at the time. Probably Johns too. Surprisingly, DiDio was the one who was skeptical.

At the time DC was pretty desperate with the Flash franchise because Flash: Fastest Man Alive and Mark Waid's return in 2007 or so didn't live up to expectations, so I think they were hoping Barry's return would give the franchise a similar boost to the one Green Lantern got when Hal came back (with the same creative team).

After that, DiDio just thought Wally was redundant if Barry was back because "they are the same character" (in his own words). Everything that happened with Heroes in Crisis or Flash Forward was probably just an attempt to drive sales up through outrage, akin to what Marvel is doing with Ben Reilly nowadays. Remember DiDio was, well, a troll.

There is an article written by DiDio on the DC Nation column of the comics of the late 00s announcing Flash Rebirth where he literally says that as soon as he stepped on DC offices, he made clear his mission was bringing both Hal and Barry back. Hal was easier because of how the character was treated, Barry took a little more time to cook.

As much as I adore most of Morrison's work and ideas about the superhero genre I have to admit... Grant is never held responsible for these things, and it's always Johns who's treated as DiDio's evil right hand, when it was Johns the one who stopped some of DiDio's mad ideas like killing Nightwing (the compromise was "okay but you have to kill a character" and Johns chose Superboy because he could revive him in Legion of Three Worlds), or how Johns was responsible for the whole Rebirth initiative, basically going "Dan, I have been following you and playing your game out of respect, but you have to admit this just isn't working and fans are mad and I, well... I don't have my precious continuity to work with" (in an interview Johns basically admitted he hated the New 52, with respectful words). There's an enormous fanboyish cult around Grant that can never see that everyone who were fans of Barry were on the same page back then.

[Batgrayson]

Wasn't the original idea that Barry would had been the Flash after Infinite Crisis, instead of Bart?

[Maxi]

Wasn't the original idea that Barry would had been the Flash after Infinite Crisis, instead of Bart?

According to DiDio yes, the original plan was bringing Barry back in IC, but they decided at last minute that it was still too soon and held it until Final Crisis. Bart was always meant to be a placeholder.

[Leancarp900]

There is an article written by DiDio on the DC Nation column of the comics of the late 00s announcing Flash Rebirth where he literally says that as soon as he stepped on DC offices, he made clear his mission was bringing both Hal and Barry back. Hal was easier because of how the character was treated, Barry took a little more time to cook.

I think DiDio may have been lying there, maybe to hype up Flash Rebirth or because he wanted the outrage to be directed at him instead of Johns/EVS (DiDio often took the blame for other people's decisions).

There is an interview where Ethan Van Sciver (he is an asshole, but that's another story) says the opposite:

MSG: Like with Hal Jordan, you had a critical place in the return of Barry Allen in Flash: Rebirth. What do you feel Barry brings to the DC Universe that’s unique among speedsters?

EVS: He’s the first Silver Age DC hero. I just love Barry Allen as the Flash. I was the guy who was really pushing to bring him back. When I would be in a cab with Dan DiDio, I would talk to him about the Flash. The series was having a lot of trouble and suffered through three relaunches that failed at the time. I said, “If you’d only let us bring back Barry Allen and let us do Flash: Rebirth, I’m sure we could get that franchise back on track again.” He would reply, “Oh no. He died a hero.” But I think we wore him down after some time, and he began to think it was a good idea. And indeed it was.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130827...r-dc-universe/

[BohemiaDrinker]

But Flash: Rebirth was a decade ago.

A little more. It still could have cemented the idea of Flash as mid tier book, no matter what they do.

Adams "may" change that, or he may not. The feeling I get is that he creates the same kind of buzz Waid did. Fair sales (but we can only guess nowadays) and critical and fan acclaim. If DC at any point sees potential for this run to become as defining a run as Waid was, they may rethink how much effort is worth to put on promoting it.

[Refrax5]

Yeah when people bring up "Silver Age nostalgia", whatever the hell that means, I can at least understand the argument when it comes to Barry. He got the best sendoff in comics and his successor turned out to be arguably the best example of how legacy should be handled. Barry wasn't done wrong like Hal was, so with him I get the sentiment about DiDio wanting his favorite Flash back.

Hell, even Hal himself told Kyle in Hal 'N Pals that Kyle was the best Lantern.

I would always argue Barry did get done kind of dirty. It's a sacred cow now, but Barry was dragged through the mud through the past few years of his title, going through utter misery only to finally be reunited with Iris and have a happy ending. Then, a month later, it's ripped away and he's tortured before dying an agonizing death while screaming for help. When I first got into Flash comics, I only knew Barry from the TV show and was horrified to learn that's what happened to him. It was a very ugly way for that character to go. Even Marv Wolfman was against it. It's been built up into this unassailable story in retrospect, but it was pretty awful.

[Mantis-Ray]

I figured DC isn't advertising it as much because they are more focused on promoting other characters

Like how Action Comics receives little promotion favor of Superman: Son of Kal-El cause he's their new legacy golden boy

Then there's the last Green Lantern run which shafted every Green Lantern except John to play up newbies Keli Quintella and Jo Mullein

[Refrax5]

Come on DC, do your job, promote the comic, post it on twitter, do something.

Yeah, the lack of promotion is very bizarre considering how this run seems unanimously loved.

[Maxi]

A little more. It still could have cemented the idea of Flash as mid tier book, no matter what they do.

Adams "may" change that, or he may not. The feeling I get is that he creates the same kind of buzz Waid did. Fair sales (but we can only guess nowadays) and critical and fan acclaim. If DC at any point sees potential for this run to become as defining a run as Waid was, they may rethink how much effort is worth to put on promoting it.

As much as I love what Adams is doing, I still think that to raise his run to classic status he needs a defining epic arc the way The Return of Barry Allen and Terminal Velocity were for Waid or Blitz was for Johns. Who knows, maybe One Minute War will be just that.

[Frontier]

Was Williamson' run that advertised?