Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2022

[SuperX]

By the time Waid got to his second run and first developed Jai and Iris, he didn't want them to be speedsters. Iris was given vibrational powers, functionally Kitty Pride. Jai had a sped up metabolism that supercharged his muscle growth. The muscle growth part seems to be gone, but the super strenght remains, apparently.

Yeah they say his powers are from the speed force ,but shouldn't they be from the strength force?

I think it would have been cooler to have walls kids have aspects of his powers (atleast while they are young )iris being intangible,invisible,and jai having a infinite mass punch type of "strength"(like the thunderclap)

[Frontier]

Art from the next issue.
I wasn't digging Pasarin's art in the book, but after the art on the tie-in issues i'm thankful that he is back.

Is this Vartox's cousin?

[Refrax5]

Yeah they say his powers are from the speed force ,but shouldn't they be from the strength force?

I think it would have been cooler to have walls kids have aspects of his powers (atleast while they are young )iris being intangible,invisible,and jai having a infinite mass punch type of "strength"(like the thunderclap)

I think the explanation was that Jai used the Speed Force to hyperaccelerate his muscle growth to make him stronger. How does that work exactly? The same way a costume coming out of a lightning bolt scar does.

[Refrax5]

Except it's not. It's THE Flash suit. The iconography of the suit is more recognizable than either Barry or Wally themselves. If I show a picture of the Flash suit to someone who isn't into superhero stuff at all they'll recognize it. If I name drop either Barry Allen or Wally West to those same people they'll have no idea who I'm talking about. Whoever is the main Flash that DC is trying to push should wear the suit and for the foreseeable future that's Wally.

I understand the argument that Barry wore it first but to just as many people Wally earned the suit, wore it through some of the best Flash runs the book has ever had and therefore has worn it better. The suit really belongs to both characters at this point.

I don't even necessarily agree that the characters need to change costumes and need radically distinct looks but if anyone should change right now it should be Barry. Wally is the main Flash right now and should wear the iconic Flash suit.

Nah, it's Barry's suit. Wally originally stopped wearing a copy of Barry's suit to be more of an individual. He only wore it as Flash to honor his memory. Barry designed the suit. Barry made it iconic. So if one of them should get a new costume, it shouldn't be the person that invented the classic one. I think Wally is a strong enough character not to be wearing his Uncle's hand me downs.

Barry didn't rip off Jay, Wally shouldn't rip off Barry. Each of them should be unique. As it stands, Wally and Barry just look interchangeable and artists haven't been able to keep track of the minor costume differences since 2009. It doesn't work.

[SanityOrMadness]

So Linda just has powers out of nowhere, has no physical training or friction issues tearing away/burning her regular clothes, has no issue regulating her metabolism/appetite, no issue controlling her reflexes, doesn't know how to fight, only knows to run fast and that's it, instant experience and ability. Just rub on a speedster like a magic lamp and you have their powers. Flash powerset is becoming a joke. I never understood why its so transferable or easily stolen (like when Bruce stole Barry's powers because he was slowing down. Plot driven crapola). It's annoying.

All those issues Barry resolved over years of work and hard training. Not Linda...she's like a U6 saiyan in dragonball. POOF! Instant flash. We now have dime-a-dozen speedsters everywhere.

I mean, the problem with this isn't Linda-specific, it's that if they're written according to their "official" power levels, non-speedsters should have essentially zero chance in a fight with them. Maybe Captain Cold's gun could stop a Flash in their tracks, but they should have it disassembled between Cold starting to pull the trigger and the time the trigger would have engaged. "Skill" doesn't matter too much when you literally move a million times faster with none of the downsides to that.

Usually, the speedster ends up being "soft nerfed" - i.e., holding the idiot ball to give the bad guy a chance. It would be better if they got a *proper* nerf, but that ship has long sailed.

[Hol]

So Linda just has powers out of nowhere, has no physical training or friction issues tearing away/burning her regular clothes, has no issue regulating her metabolism/appetite, no issue controlling her reflexes, doesn't know how to fight, only knows to run fast and that's it, instant experience and ability. Just rub on a speedster like a magic lamp and you have their powers. Flash powerset is becoming a joke. I never understood why its so transferable or easily stolen (like when Bruce stole Barry's powers because he was slowing down. Plot driven crapola). It's annoying.

All those issues Barry resolved over years of work and hard training. Not Linda...she's like a U6 saiyan in dragonball. POOF! Instant flash. We now have dime-a-dozen speedsters everywhere.

What issues did Barry resolve over the years? Maybe I am forgetting something, but I have read every issue of Barrys original run a few times, and he was instantly a pro fighting criminals right away. And could fight They didn't really start addressing the things you are talking about until Wallys run. Not in any meaningful way at least.

[Frontier]

I mean, the problem with this isn't Linda-specific, it's that if they're written according to their "official" power levels, non-speedsters should have essentially zero chance in a fight with them. Maybe Captain Cold's gun could stop a Flash in their tracks, but they should have it disassembled between Cold starting to pull the trigger and the time the trigger would have engaged. "Skill" doesn't matter too much when you literally move a million times faster with none of the downsides to that.

Usually, the speedster ends up being "soft nerfed" - i.e., holding the idiot ball to give the bad guy a chance. It would be better if they got a *proper* nerf, but that ship has long sailed.

That's usually where The Rogues come in because when Flash takes out one another Rogue backs them up.

What issues did Barry resolve over the years? Maybe I am forgetting something, but I have read every issue of Barrys original run a few times, and he was instantly a pro fighting criminals right away. And could fight They didn't really start addressing the things you are talking about until Wallys run. Not in any meaningful way at least.

That's what we have Flash: Year One now for.

[SanityOrMadness]

That's usually where The Rogues come in because when Flash takes out one another Rogue backs them up.

They're still too fast for that if written according to their claimed speeds. I mean, look at this (from Nightwing #90):



Wally all-but-teleports Dick from Bludhaven to Central. And there's a scene in the following issue (better in some ways for the point, but it's two-three pages long, which is a bit much to post here) where he takes apart KGBeast and then disarms & ties up his whole gang in a second. There's still a little bit of idiot-balling because it's Dick's book (he doesn't search KGBeast fully, he runs smack-bang into a forcefield to give Dick the climax to himself), but that's Taylor writing him at some measurable fraction of his claimed speeds, and guys-with-gimmicks can't compete, singly or as a group.

Even at Wally's immediate-post-Crisis sub-mach 1 speeds, they would find it hard. When DC are claiming he's the fastest being in the DCU, or even the multiverse (Flash Forward).... he's too powerful to use in non-cosmic stories based on a recognisable-to-IRL version of Earth without any sort of implicit or explicit nerf. (This applies to the likes of Barry and Superman too, of course. But the other option is to go full Miracleman with the DCU, and I don't think anyone really wants that)

[Hol]

That's usually where The Rogues come in because when Flash takes out one another Rogue backs them up.

That's what we have Flash: Year One now for.

I get that but that story is very very new...so to act like historically this was something that was addressed, especially for Barry, just isn't true. It isn't unusual to see a new speedster get their powers, kick ass and not talk about the various issues Wally dealt with in the begining of his run. In fact I can't remember any other speedster talking about it.

[BohemiaDrinker]

So Linda just has powers out of nowhere, has no physical training or friction issues tearing away/burning her regular clothes, has no issue regulating her metabolism/appetite, no issue controlling her reflexes, doesn't know how to fight, only knows to run fast and that's it, instant experience and ability. Just rub on a speedster like a magic lamp and you have their powers. Flash powerset is becoming a joke. I never understood why its so transferable or easily stolen (like when Bruce stole Barry's powers because he was slowing down. Plot driven crapola). It's annoying.

All those issues Barry resolved over years of work and hard training. Not Linda...she's like a U6 saiyan in dragonball. POOF! Instant flash. We now have dime-a-dozen speedsters everywhere.

Linda can fight. She's historically badass. Everything else, yeah,

[ducklord]

Is this Vartox's cousin?

1st-Champion-1.jpg
Maybe they're doing a riff on one of the all-time best Thing stories ever, when Ben Grimm fought the Champion.

[Frontier]

They're still too fast for that if written according to their claimed speeds. I mean, look at this (from Nightwing #90):



Wally all-but-teleports Dick from Bludhaven to Central. And there's a scene in the following issue (better in some ways for the point, but it's two-three pages long, which is a bit much to post here) where he takes apart KGBeast and then disarms & ties up his whole gang in a second. There's still a little bit of idiot-balling because it's Dick's book (he doesn't search KGBeast fully, he runs smack-bang into a forcefield to give Dick the climax to himself), but that's Taylor writing him at some measurable fraction of his claimed speeds, and guys-with-gimmicks can't compete, singly or as a group.

Even at Wally's immediate-post-Crisis sub-mach 1 speeds, they would find it hard. When DC are claiming he's the fastest being in the DCU, or even the multiverse (Flash Forward).... he's too powerful to use in non-cosmic stories based on a recognisable-to-IRL version of Earth without any sort of implicit or explicit nerf. (This applies to the likes of Barry and Superman too, of course. But the other option is to go full Miracleman with the DCU, and I don't think anyone really wants that)

It is true that Speedsters' speed is at the mercy of the plot .

I get that but that story is very very new...so to act like historically this was something that was addressed, especially for Barry, just isn't true. It isn't unusual to see a new speedster get their powers, kick ass and not talk about the various issues Wally dealt with in the begining of his run. In fact I can't remember any other speedster talking about it.

I think there is a tendency for characters to be instant experts because writers just don't want to have to go to the trouble of showing there being a learning curve or actual training involved in building them up to being great crime-fighters.

[Hol]

It is true that Speedsters' speed is at the mercy of the plot .

I think there is a tendency for characters to be instant experts because writers just don't want to have to go to the trouble of showing there being a learning curve or actual training involved in building them up to being great crime-fighters.

That is true and I would judge it more if I thought that Linda having powers was a thing that would stick. But I think this will be a pretty short lived development.

[Dred]

Nah, it's Barry's suit. Wally originally stopped wearing a copy of Barry's suit to be more of an individual. He only wore it as Flash to honor his memory. Barry designed the suit. Barry made it iconic. So if one of them should get a new costume, it shouldn't be the person that invented the classic one. I think Wally is a strong enough character not to be wearing his Uncle's hand me downs.

Barry didn't rip off Jay, Wally shouldn't rip off Barry. Each of them should be unique. As it stands, Wally and Barry just look interchangeable and artists haven't been able to keep track of the minor costume differences since 2009. It doesn't work.

You just stick your fingers in your ears and repeat the same thing over and over and over.

You don't want a world where Jay, Barry and Wally don't share, because then Barry would barely have anything left.

[Mantis-Ray]

That's usually where The Rogues come in because when Flash takes out one another Rogue backs them up.

That's what we have Flash: Year One now for.

On that note, how was that Year One story?