Loki Appreciation 2022

[Riimi]

ack, i hope you feel better soon!

And I had similar thoughts over the past few days, about deconstructing worthiness. Here's something i said to a friend in Discord a few days ago:

Raye — 02/06/2022
had a bit of a realization about how Thor still has the hammer in the Hulk stuff.... that would be the perfect story for him to realize a fight may not always be the best response to a problem
[7:24 AM]
like, if we think about Hulk and Thor fighting, yeah Thor may be justified given events in Hulk, but what if it doesn't accomplish anything other than create a spectacle?
[7:25 AM]
I've said since we heard about it that I think the most interesting part of a Thor/Hulk crossover is the possibility of Loki VS Banner, not Hulk VS Thor
[7:25 AM]
so what if that happens, and Loki ends up more effective in the long run, talking him down?
[7:26 AM]
maybe Thor would have to realize the modern day Champion isn't necessarily a 'warrior'
[7:28 AM]
like, it appears Cates introduced that space arena for the purpose of hosting this fight, that pretty blatantly says the fight is a spectacle more than it is an actual solution
[7:28 AM]
also a callback/nod to Ragnarok, but still

So like, it just was a thought that gave me a bit of optimism that things post God of Hammers for Loki, and that it may just be a continuation of Thor having to learn some things about how things operate in more modern times. Cates is a bit of an unusual writer in that he clearly loooooves big bombastic scenes of action, the bigger and crazier the better, BUT it's always undercut with deep emotional themes, or political themes, wherein a lot of the time that same big bombastic action is being critiqued. Like for a Loki example, when Loki and Strange fought and then Zelma stopped them and called them childish for dealing with things in that way. It's common with Cates' stuff, like a lot of 'that was awesome!!!' stuff, and a lot of time, it undeniably is, and is a lot of fun.... but was it necessary? Was a giant fight actually the best way to resolve a situation? Sometimes what's most 'fun' isn't the best way. So this would fit in with that kind of theme. And yeah, it's a thing with superhero comics in general, it's just expected that bad guys get dealt with by punching them in the face until they give up. It's fun, it's entertaining, but at the same time, it's not so great on a messaging level. Yeah, sometimes, there is no other option, and the writers can and often do choose to create scenarios where it is actually the most reasonable option, but still.

And yeah! i saw that about 2099, which is cool. so first of all, this is a variant Loki, so even if they do make him a bad guy, I'm not overly concerned. BUT due to how 2099 handled the Asgardians previously, where for some unexplained reason the Asgardians stopped visiting Midgard, and mortals created standins for them, they have free rein to pretty much start from scratch here, assuming this is the OG Loki, not the mortal version. Pretty sure that all that had previously been established was that the original Asgardians had stopped visiting Midgard, it wasn't clear if they were still out there but just gave up on Earth, or, as appears to be the case now, they were destroyed somehow. And this new 2099 Loki does seem to be borrowing a lot from the modern take of the character, from his costume to the 'outcasts' title, so I do have some hope that he's at worst an anti-hero. .

And yeah, you make a good point about Cates possibly continuing a theme deconstructing violence in the Thor vs Hulk match-up. The "hero" vs "hero" thing is a definite staple of Marvel comics, but also really does beg the question of whether or not people are jumping the gun to violence too quickly. Like, thankfully no one in such a match-up ever dies (to my knowledge), but that's arguably due to plot armor and not because the reaction was justified on either side. If you have an issue where you keep attacking other capes, then maybe you're the problem...

(Now I almost want an AU where there's a hero vs hero situation and something terrible happens...or maybe that's what we're getting from Cates, lol.)


So onto the latest Thor issue:

spoilers:

Omg, I feel like they totally faked us out on who was going to die, and I bought it! Unless someone somehow sacrifices themselves to restore Odin, which I think would majorly undermine his sacrifice here. It's kind of funny, before he was shown on the cover of the anniversary issue, etc., I would have bet he would be the one to die: there's not really anywhere left to go with his character anymore, imo. Also, while I see where you're coming from with regards to everything being Odin's fault, I actually thought he was portrayed fairly sympathetically in this issue. Not wanting to die is a pretty understandable motive. Interestingly enough, Odin is mentioned (and on the cover) of May's Thor solicit. I wonder if we'll see Loki instead, assuming it is a fake-out. Looks like Fanto may be right about the Odinforce going to Thor. I'm not sure if I like it in the long run, but I'll see what Cates does with it. Also, my guess is that it's actually Odin that's the last king of Asgard mentioned in the prophecy -- technically, Thor might not have been king without the full Odin Force (?) This is more a guess based on a technicality, though -- although that's often what makes or breaks a prophecy. Wonder if Loki is busy getting the ten realms to light bonfires. Then again, subverting the prophecy may not be that easy. Looks like I was wrong about him getting backup, and that was thanks to Beta Ray. I also feel like his absence is significant in the "he's plotting" kind of way. Interesting to see Thor closing the others out of the fight, especially as we've been talking about how one of his weaknesses has been his desire to handle everything himself. However, that often seemed to stem from pride, whereas here it is likely actually too dangerous for his friends to fight with him.

end of spoilers

[Raye]

look what I got from Hot Topic today!



had my eye on this hoodie for a long time, but it is an online exclusive and shipping to Canada is... ooof. so I went to Hot Topic, spent enough to get one of their online discount coupons, which kinda covers the shipping, and then got this. So I have like Nirvana and Gojira shirts and some Ghost Pops and shit now, but that's ok, Gojira, Nirvana and Ghost are some of my fave bands. It's cute, I like it. it's men's sizing, so small is still a bit big on me, (I am pretty tiny) but that's ok for a hoodie.

And yeah, I saw that with Odin in the solicits, after i posted earlier. Very odd. I agree that restoring him immediately after the sacrifice would undermine it, there really isn't a whole lot more they can do with him, so I think it may be best to just give him a noble sendoff. I hope they don't end up making him just be king again, setting Thor on a backwards trajectory, which could drag everyone else with him. but yeah, he may be the 'last king' from the prophecy, implying no more kings going forward. However, Odin seems to be confronting Banner in his mind castle/cockpit so he may not be, you know, physically there. Though, this is the role I had been hoping for Loki to play, so... :-/

I am curious about the other creative team(s) mentioned in the solicit. Is it some kind of one-off (spillover from the anniversary issue?) or prepping to spin something out of Thor?

[Fanto.mx]

I'm way behind on the issue, haven't read it yet, but hopefully I'll find a window tomorrow.

In the meantime, what does the hood on that hoodie look like? Does it make sense? Does it have the wings? Either way, that hoodie is frickin' awesome.

Riimi, Dark Ages is definitely doing that, though with a good dose of villainy thrown in. I think maybe the Banner of War story will at least partially paint Thor as the hero, despite the general "violence doesn't fix everything" undercurrent, since Banner has gone basically full supervillain right now. It'll be either really interesting or completely disappointing as to how that story is handled. I have confidence in Cates, but Hulk vs Thor is a troublesome situation for the threads that have been running through the Thor book.

[Raye]

it's just a plain light gray hood, probably not as large as I would ideally like, I have this Assassin's Creed hoodie/jacket, with a huge fucking hood, cus AC, that kinda sits on your shoulders a bit, and I would like something a bit like that, because it does look like Kid Loki's hood is on the larger side the way it drapes over his shoulders when it's down, but... enh. also, it is based on the TV show, so it is gray, not white, because his costume in the show was all dirty, but still cute.

btw speaking of the show, they've chosen the directors for season 2: https://collider.com/loki-season-2-j...ead-directing/
They also directed a couple episodes of Moon Knight, and an upcoming movie called Something In the Dirt, so i guess we'll have to watch those to get a feel for what they may do. An interview I saw they said Alan Moore is a big influence for them, specifically how he creates extremely intricate lore and worldbuilding, a lot of which will never actually be put to page, and it seems like that approach would be a very good fit for Loki, even if they're not the ones writing it, I think Waldron is coming back for that, but not sure.

What I'd like to see from Banner of War is showing Thor having good intent, and putting up a good fight, maybe even beating Hulk in a physical sense, but then that doesn't ultimately solve the problem. The problem isn't Hulk right now, it's Banner that's gone off the deep end, he's using Hulk, keeping him captive. And Banner is about smarts, not brawn. He's using Hulk as a vehicle, but it's still the mind that's the more dangerous part here, it's just being amplified by the 'ship' it's piloting. Hulk before was more often than not like a warship that lacked a captain, the crew just firing it's guns blindly. Dangerous, but indiscriminate and not attacking smartly. Now it's got a 4 star general at the wheel, able to strategize and plan, potentially multiplying the danger quite a bit, depending on how far Banner slides. The recent solicit shows Odin inside Banner's mind, which makes me think Odin loses his body, and exists incorporeally, maybe within Mjolnir, which allows him to do that. This is what I wanted from Loki, (edit - talking to Banner in his mind i mean. not losing his body. ) though, because there's just SO MUCH to mine there, between Loki and Banner. Loki turning face, Banner turning heel, and there are similar aspects in their backstory, and Banner being shackled to Hulk may feel similar to him as Loki being shackled to a bad fate, previously. So Odin being there instead is kind of disappointing, like a huge wasted opportunity. But on the other hand, Odin has never been big on empathy, so he may fail as well. There may still be a chance for Loki to either enter Banner's mind as well, or talk to him in the real world. (tho there, he'd have to be real careful to not get smashed into a paste)

[Fanto.mx]

Banner is NOT going to respond well to authority, let alone vaguely abusive fatherly authority. If Odin utters the word "weak," that's it for any sort of conversation with Banner. There's definite potential to tell a story about diplomacy vs a contest of strength, rather than the expected good/bad angle. I mean, Banner is pretty clearly off the deep end and pretty far into the evil at this point, literally enslaving and torturing Hulk, so it needs to be a conversation about empathy and understanding, rather than strength, or else Thor is just fully the good guy, which is the opposite of the story Cates has been telling to this point.

[Raye]

That's true. Given Bruce's history with his own father, who was in many ways actually quite similar to Odin, I am not going to give Odin very good chances, unless Odin sees the error of his ways, maybe. And really, in both stories, (including some of the leadup from Ewing in both) a major theme has been the deconstruction of the traditional view of 'strength' and 'weakness' and showing how toxic those ideas can be, even if it hasn't quite reached the goalposts in that messaging yet under Cates. Though previously, I think it was on more of a personal level, even as it dealt with Thor being King. But given recent events, it got a whole lot more topical, sadly... I wonder if it will shift to be more political, particularly in Thor, in wake of that. I mean there were elements there, like how Thor, right on page 1 of Cates' run, was trying to keep the realms in line with threats of force and strong man posturing, I mean, I think that should probably be brought back up, for sure.

So yeah, I do think empathy will be a key here to getting a good outcome, though it doesn't look like it will be coming from Thor either, since he is all tied up in a physical confrontation. And while it could very well be that Thor beats Hulk, things go back and forth on that front on who can beat whom, between them, and now Thor has the All-Force. But that it is set in a literal arena, besides being a callback to Thor: Ragnarok, kinda says to me that the fight is more spectacle than solution. I can't really see how either one of them winning a fist fight would actually solve anything here. While I would totally be down with Thor trying to talk some sense into Banner, or employ tactics other than force,

That being said, a good outcome may not be the goal. Yesterday on Cates' Substack, he shared some teases and it sounds as though only one of them, Hulk or Thor, will make it out of this alive. I'm not sure if i should share the link to the video, (it's unlisted) but, the transcript is as follows. shhh. seekrit (kinda. i mean this was one of the free things you get just for signing up):

Donny Cates: Hey, everybody. So, really quick, Marvel's gonna kill me if they find out that I'm telling you about this. So, just don't tell anybody and, just really quick, I need to get this out. They messed up. They allowed me to do this book called BANNER OF WAR, which is the 60th anniversary of both Hulk and Thor, both of which I'm writing. And I think they thought that I was just going to do some kind of, like, fun Super Smash Bros. fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight, fight thing. But, between you and me, I'm going to end the world. It's going to be the craziest thing you've ever seen. I cannot believe they're allowing me to publish it. It's brutal. It's gonna break your heart. And only one of them is going to walk away. Like, I'm literally putting my own career on the line, because if I kill one of them, then I lose a job, right? But I'm willing to do that for you. So tune in, BANNER OF WAR, it's going to be wild. It's going to cut between Thor and Hulk and... Only one will walk away. So keep that between you and me. And I'll see you then.

Now, assuming there isn't some loophole he isn't letting people in on, which is entirely possible, and even likely, then it could go either way. Not that I am cheering on either one dying. Just trying to figure out which is more likely.

In Hulk, while i have not yet read the most recent issue, Cates has not been utilizing any alternate Hulks that I have seen, no Cho, or Betty etc. Which means killing off Banner would cause some PROBLEMS in terms of continuing the book, clearly. Hulk needs a Hulk. BUT, on the other hand, there is this: https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...ley-new-hulk-6 It might be that by 'killing' Banner, it lets loose this.... thing. But the problem remains that such a move could remove the protagonist of the book, which is going to be difficult to work around, given the lack of any alternatives used in the story so far. It could really play into themes of violence not solving the problem, if it in fact just makes things worse by unleashing this thing, assuming it is the fistfight with Thor that causes this. Kinda similar to what happened with the Void in Dr Strange, come to think of it. But it sounds as though this is a case of something overtaking control, so it may not be a true 'death' but it does still mean Banner doesn't end up walking away from the fight, so still technically true... but that doesn't seem to quite fit with a violence based solution. If anything it would fit with someone (Odin maybe) possibly locking Banner away in his own mind or something, which could kinda mess up the messaging.

In Thor, there is an established system for characters to take over a role, so Thor dying (or "dying") wouldn't mean the end of the book, as we've already seen with Jane. So the logistics there are not as bad, in that way. But Thor still hasn't chosen a new Champion, or stepped away from that role fully, so not like Thor dying is actually necessary this time, assuming he's going to fully step into the role of King, now that he has the full All-Force. And it seems really weird to give him a power up and then immediately kill him. That seems like cutting the story off at it's knees, just as it's entering a new phase. But you could say the same about Hulk, I mean why make him turn heel right at the beginning if you're just gonna remove him from the board almost immediately? so... I guess i am leaning towards Hulk, but there are pros and cons to each.

As for how this relates to Loki, I mean, I guess not much. But in the scenario with Hulk, it may be a silver lining for Loki if it is Odin that fucks things up by inadvertently releasing this worse thing, even if i think a confrontation between Loki and Banner that is more rooted in dialogue than violence would be so very very tasty to read. I guess we might get that later, at some point, if it doesn't happen here. I mean, Cates will still be writing both, not like he can't have the books cross over again in the future, even with no anniversary as an excuse. But I do still hope to see it here, even if it is looking like it may not end up making a lot of headway. I just think Loki being confronted with seeing someone going down the same path he did, and knowing where that path leads, and what it means to follow it to it's end, could be so interesting.

[Riimi]

That's true. Given Bruce's history with his own father, who was in many ways actually quite similar to Odin, I am not going to give Odin very good chances, unless Odin sees the error of his ways, maybe. And really, in both stories, (including some of the leadup from Ewing in both) a major theme has been the deconstruction of the traditional view of 'strength' and 'weakness' and showing how toxic those ideas can be, even if it hasn't quite reached the goalposts in that messaging yet under Cates. Though previously, I think it was on more of a personal level, even as it dealt with Thor being King. But given recent events, it got a whole lot more topical, sadly... I wonder if it will shift to be more political, particularly in Thor, in wake of that. I mean there were elements there, like how Thor, right on page 1 of Cates' run, was trying to keep the realms in line with threats of force and strong man posturing, I mean, I think that should probably be brought back up, for sure.

So yeah, I do think empathy will be a key here to getting a good outcome, though it doesn't look like it will be coming from Thor either, since he is all tied up in a physical confrontation. And while it could very well be that Thor beats Hulk, things go back and forth on that front on who can beat whom, between them, and now Thor has the All-Force. But that it is set in a literal arena, besides being a callback to Thor: Ragnarok, kinda says to me that the fight is more spectacle than solution. I can't really see how either one of them winning a fist fight would actually solve anything here. While I would totally be down with Thor trying to talk some sense into Banner, or employ tactics other than force,

That being said, a good outcome may not be the goal. Yesterday on Cates' Substack, he shared some teases and it sounds as though only one of them, Hulk or Thor, will make it out of this alive. I'm not sure if i should share the link to the video, (it's unlisted) but, the transcript is as follows. shhh. seekrit (kinda. i mean this was one of the free things you get just for signing up):



Now, assuming there isn't some loophole he isn't letting people in on, which is entirely possible, and even likely, then it could go either way. Not that I am cheering on either one dying. Just trying to figure out which is more likely.

In Hulk, while i have not yet read the most recent issue, Cates has not been utilizing any alternate Hulks that I have seen, no Cho, or Betty etc. Which means killing off Banner would cause some PROBLEMS in terms of continuing the book, clearly. Hulk needs a Hulk. BUT, on the other hand, there is this: https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...ley-new-hulk-6 It might be that by 'killing' Banner, it lets loose this.... thing. But the problem remains that such a move could remove the protagonist of the book, which is going to be difficult to work around, given the lack of any alternatives used in the story so far. It could really play into themes of violence not solving the problem, if it in fact just makes things worse by unleashing this thing, assuming it is the fistfight with Thor that causes this. Kinda similar to what happened with the Void in Dr Strange, come to think of it. But it sounds as though this is a case of something overtaking control, so it may not be a true 'death' but it does still mean Banner doesn't end up walking away from the fight, so still technically true... but that doesn't seem to quite fit with a violence based solution. If anything it would fit with someone (Odin maybe) possibly locking Banner away in his own mind or something, which could kinda mess up the messaging.

In Thor, there is an established system for characters to take over a role, so Thor dying (or "dying") wouldn't mean the end of the book, as we've already seen with Jane. So the logistics there are not as bad, in that way. But Thor still hasn't chosen a new Champion, or stepped away from that role fully, so not like Thor dying is actually necessary this time, assuming he's going to fully step into the role of King, now that he has the full All-Force. And it seems really weird to give him a power up and then immediately kill him. That seems like cutting the story off at it's knees, just as it's entering a new phase. But you could say the same about Hulk, I mean why make him turn heel right at the beginning if you're just gonna remove him from the board almost immediately? so... I guess i am leaning towards Hulk, but there are pros and cons to each.

As for how this relates to Loki, I mean, I guess not much. But in the scenario with Hulk, it may be a silver lining for Loki if it is Odin that fucks things up by inadvertently releasing this worse thing, even if i think a confrontation between Loki and Banner that is more rooted in dialogue than violence would be so very very tasty to read. I guess we might get that later, at some point, if it doesn't happen here. I mean, Cates will still be writing both, not like he can't have the books cross over again in the future, even with no anniversary as an excuse. But I do still hope to see it here, even if it is looking like it may not end up making a lot of headway. I just think Loki being confronted with seeing someone going down the same path he did, and knowing where that path leads, and what it means to follow it to it's end, could be so interesting.

I am not caught up at all on the Hulk book (maybe I should consider fixing that), but given this information I actually am leaning in favor of Thor dying (if one of them does) rather than the Hulk. Although both books are relatively new in their runs with Cates as an author, I feel like having Hulk win would truly cement his heel turn in the larger universe -- really, the biggest problem I see here is the question of who would stop him. I also feel like if Thor's arc is about the downfalls of relying on violence, then dying in combat is a tragic, yet appropriate, ending.

The kinda funny thing is that Cates is probably using Odin because he'll exacerbate issues -- no point in having someone solve the problem within the first few issues.

[Raye]

oops, i see now i must have gotten distracted mid thought and forgot to finish a sentence. And it was leading towards something Loki related, too:

While I would totally be down with Thor trying to talk some sense into Banner, or employ tactics other than force, I think it would make more sense in this case for it to be Loki that does it.

Ok, so yeah. While I am annoyed that Banner of War involves both books (I'm just kinda over true crossovers that force you to buy a book you may not have otherwise been reading, I think it's scummy) I think it's worth it to get caught up on Hulk before Banner of War, it's at least not very many issues, and is a fun read, even if it is a bit jarring to have Bruce just veer into villainy literally in the first issue. (he was quite prepared to rip Tony in half when he tried to stop him) We are now getting more of the reasons as to why, and they're understandable to an extent, but still. And of course it will probably make the Thor half of the story a lot easier to follow.

And a thought just occurred to me how Thor could not walk away from this fight, but not die. Odinsleep. Or Thorsleep now, i guess. But if Odin gave Thor all of the All-force, that means it comes with it's drawbacks as well. And a fight with Hulk, especially if it calls forth this new baddie, would likely be strenuous enough to deplete the All-force enough to need a recharge, even if Thor wins. Especially if it was not already triggered by the fight with Mjolnir, and he's already running on a half tank. Odinsleep could also trigger the Champion handoff, finally. If you think about it, this is probably a large part of the reason there even is a distinct Champion position, separate from the King, in universe. From an out of universe perspective, it is likely just a means to remove Odin from the board temporarily, so Thor (and now whoever follows him in that position) has something to do while we're not left wondering why Odin doesn't just step in and obliterate everything. But in universe, it makes it so that there needs to be a Champion to act while the King may be incapacitated. It also means that the King is incapacitated less often, if he relies on a designated Champion to act on his behalf for most things, and only uses the All-force when ABSOLUTELY necessary, and there is no other choice. If he was just using it willy-nilly all the time, he'd be asleep so often that it would impact how effective he can be as a ruler. So a Champion acting separate from the king makes sense. This may be the thing that demonstrates that to Thor, and to the readers. Makes Thor realize he really does need someone to act in his stead. And yes, I am still hoping that is Loki.

But yeah, if Hulk/Banner/Titan (I guess that's this new thing's name) wins, the question then is, who stops them? especially if Thor goes sleepytimes. Even if Banner gets Titan back in the box, the threat of Banner himself now that he's turned heel remains, unless the experience snaps him back and makes him realize he's been a real dick lately. But that's speculation for later, and may not involve Loki. (though I hope it does)

[Fanto.mx]

New Alt Universe? story:

Marvel.com: Asgard Goes to War, Loki Takes the Throne, and Thor Makes a Fateful Decision in 'Thor: Lightning and Lament'.
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...nauck-one-shot

[Raye]

hmmm. yeah, maybe alt universe, but... i can't see why they would celebrate Thor's 60th with just a oneshot that's not even written by Cates set in an alt universe. I dunno, that just feels too inconsequential and disconnected from the continuity it's purporting to celebrate for an anniversary issue. But if in the main continuity, is it the past with a villainous Loki on the throne, or present day. Costume, writer, and mention of Odin being the rightful ruler says past, but I dunno. Like i am sure it can be a fun little one shot, but i was just expecting something with a bit more impact for an anniversary issue. Maybe it will reveal some twist in the past which will be relevant in the present, though.

[rpmaluki]

I think it's an alt universe and with a villainous Loki.

[Raye]

could be, i just find it weird to celebrate an anniversary year with an out of continuity story, since it is the main continuity you are celebrating. But I guess we shall see. My gut feeling though is a story set in the past. It may also just be a spillover from that anniversary issue solicited a bit before this, may have gotten too long, or something.

But... looks like may be on the right track above... and seems they've settled on the 'All-Sleep' as the non-Odin term for it. https://www.cbr.com/thor-fights-mjonir-hofund-sword/

Sif's brief explanation does confirm how I thought it would work. It's a tank of gas, and if it runs dry, sleepytimes until it refills. though that Thor is ALREADY running dry literally minutes after getting it (well, all of it, he had partial access before) seems to imply the tank is smaller than I had assumed, which may mean managing it, and needing to rely on a Champion, will be even more of an issue. While extremely powerful, looks like it's kinda only good for very brief periods of time. I know in the comics, the sleep kind of happened as an annual ceremonial thing, but i don't think these approaches cancel each other out. To me, the ceremony comes off as a planned downtime to prevent an unexpected one. In the time in between, it is up to the king to make sure they don't run out. If they use too much, either they sleep longer than usual, or they can fall into the sleep sooner than planned. So the one-two punch of Mjolnir followed immediately by Hulk may be enough to trigger the All-Sleep, especially since Thor is less experienced on managing the All-Force power reserves. Now, her bringing it up here rather than in the Hulk issue may imply it happens prior to Hulk, at the end of this issue, but not necessarily. It may just be a little foreshadowing for next arc. Seems to me Thor will likely Bifrost Mjolnir to the sun, or some other star, and reforge Mjolnir to remove Mangog's influence, put Odin's soul, and probably a part of his own to satisfy the 'trapped in fire' part of things, maybe in a piece broken off of the main hammer to confine Mangog, within this star, and then Mjolnir is fixed.

All of this is leading me to believe it is less likely that the Loki as king scenario is incoming. It would just feel weird to me to give Thor all these powerups right now, and imply that his failures as king were in part because Odin's transfer of power was not complete, to just have him give up now. Also, the idea of an incomplete transfer of power from Odin to Thor could play well with the incomplete transfer of the Champion role. (really, no transfer at all so far) We're back to Loki as the next Champion, imo. Which I am glad for, even if it has been taking it's sweet time getting there.

[Emoandlazy]

I never seen anyone talk about this but Lee Garbett (the artist agent of Asgard in case you didn't know)posted this on his Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/p/CaiJK_kM...dium=copy_link

There appears to be two lokis in the wip.Which I'm gonna refer to as the god of stories Loki(the one with the broken horn)and the king of Jotunheim(the one with the helmet that's had Jotunheim symbol)

What do you guys think Loki side story in Thor #24 gonna be about?

My theory is that it takes place after the god of stories skipped a head which is around the time Odin died.And the Loki we have been following(the kind of Jotunheim) is a copy the universe made to curry the story since there must be a Loki. the god of stories would be trying to figure out what's going on.

Or the god of stories left a copy of himself to curry on the story instead of him whilst he took a break from the universe. he's just there to be on his father's funeral.

These are the only two explanations I can think of.

I'm hoping this might mean we might get a new Loki solo series with these two working together for what ever plot reasons.Plus I don't think they can explain what's going on in just some pages.

Also would it be kinda hilarious if we got another Lokicest relationship in canon but like with these two?

Sorry for any grammar errors English isn't my first.

[Raye]

Don't worry, your English is perfect.

And interesting! no, I hadn't seen that, don't really do Instagram much, and, you know, other events have been occupying me the past 10 days anyway.

So it seems the story is not set prior to the end of AoA, or at least not by very much, since God of Stories Loki is only from the final couple issues of Agent of Asgard. When he appeared next, he had fixed up his crown and such. The idea of Loki from the past entering the present is interesting, but it might just be that this is just bridging the gap between AoA and Aaron's run, or something. I'm not ready to be calling the current one a copy or anything, though.

I know creating a copy is something he is technically capable of, but I just can't say i would be keen to see a Ben Reilly situation with Loki. Just out of the blue, all we've seen is basically invalidated as not being the 'real' Loki. Especially since a lot of what happened kinda hinged on him being depressed because things hadn't gone they way he had hoped. I know some people really got their hopes up with the whole 'God of Stories' thing, and some fans were really invested in seeing it go a certain way, and were disappointed it didn't go where they wanted it to go, but... I wasn't too keen on it, personally, I didn't like how he had his memories wiped and stuff like that. I like, and even prefer, what we got for the most part. I have a few quibbles, sure, as with anything else, but overall, I like what's been done. I know it wasn't what a lot of people were hoping for, but that doesn't mean what we got has been bad. I don't want that effectively erased, or given second tier status. I also think that would come across as really petty on Ewing's part if he did do something like that, to be frank.

I am sticking with what I've been saying for a while, the end of Agent of Asgard was just... temporary. A transition to something else. It didn't work the way he thought it did, so he shifted gears, off panel. He HAS referenced the whole 'God of Stories' thing since then, and he had the same coat during Aaron's run (he only recently switched back to his old one), so while there was some off-panel change there, that part is still a part of his past, as far as I can see, even if we never saw exactly how he got from point A to point B. And that more than anything is what I hope to see here. I don't have a huge problem with the gap personally, I think enough was implied over time that you can kinda piece it together, even if it's a bit vague. But some details might be nice. Maybe this story can reconcile the characterizations in the eyes of fans, and bridge the gap narratively. I just don't see a reason to invoke magical clones just yet, when it could be more symbolic, like maybe he is reflecting on that time period. Or as you say, i could go for the idea that during that weird part where he went away and then came back as the God of Stories, maybe it included a trip to the future. But I just think he should go back after this visit, if that is the case.

[rpmaluki]

Oh man, seeing Lee Garbett's Loki just brings back memories of a much happier time for me as a fan - every month I looked forward to reading a Loki book. I really miss those days!