Loki Appreciation 2022

[Emoandlazy]

I hope you're right about the young avengers story.

I honestly thought alligator Loki is just the original Loki but like he got stuck in an alligator form and Thor is keeping him with him in Asgard in till he finds away to transformed back.

Lee's last loki makes me believe both of my last theories are kinda wrong.they might just say the ending of agent of asgard happened in a different universe and the 616 Loki actually decided to stay and fight with his freya,Odin and the rest.

I personally like to pretend it was real and not an illusion.

Loki getting the full on variant pride month cover treatment have made my day gygyvy.I can already see the homophobes getting pissed and pretending they actually cared about Loki which makes it even better lmao.

[Yoruno]

Thor issue 24 is out!
Well, I knew they would do it. I said that being a king is a deadend for Loki, and now they seem to be offering a solution: King Loki will just continue to be, while the God of Stories will be the one to take part in all new adventures.
Screenshot_20220427-204920_Chrome.jpg
Basically, Loki doesn't do much in this issue but he IS important (although Thor merely uses him. Again).
Screenshot_20220427-205834_Chrome.jpg
There's also a bit of Loki meeting Loki (not really seeing each other) and Loki meeting Verity (she can't see or feel him as well, and I guess this was a farewell).
And... I hate to say this, but I expected a bit more from the art. It might be the colouring though...

[Raye]

I hope you're right about the young avengers story.

these 'Marvel Voices' issues are usually really up beat. They can only do short stories because they are anthologies, so not really any room for big drama, and they are meant to be positive representations of X group, so nothing bad happens, or at the very least, if something bad happens it has a good ending. It probably won't be anything too impactful, but nothing bad.

I honestly thought alligator Loki is just the original Loki but like he got stuck in an alligator form and Thor is keeping him with him in Asgard in till he finds away to transformed back.

I thought Loki and Alligator Loki swapped places across some dimensional portal, but it is not quite clear.

Lee's last loki makes me believe both of my last theories are kinda wrong.they might just say the ending of agent of asgard happened in a different universe and the 616 Loki actually decided to stay and fight with his freya,Odin and the rest.

I personally like to pretend it was real and not an illusion.

Thor issue 24 is out!
Well, I knew they would do it. I said that being a king is a deadend for Loki, and now they seem to be offering a solution: King Loki will just continue to be, while the God of Stories will be the one to take part in all new adventures.
Screenshot_20220427-204920_Chrome.jpg
Basically, Loki doesn't do much in this issue but he IS important (although Thor merely uses him. Again).
Screenshot_20220427-205834_Chrome.jpg
There's also a bit of Loki meeting Loki (not really seeing each other) and Loki meeting Verity (she can't see or feel him as well, and I guess this was a farewell).
And... I hate to say this, but I expected a bit more from the art. It might be the colouring though...

Read the issue just now, and first off, for the Ewing story, my take is that Defenders will be a final goodbye, it won't last. Looks to me, that at the end of Agent of Asgard, Loki went on a trip through time, and we will be seeing that trip, specifically a trip to the far flung past, so i guess Defenders takes place in the past, and then Loki will go back home. God of Stories Loki said in the issue that the current depiction is "what comes next". Which is the best case scenario for me. Bridge the gap between Aaron and Ewing. I also did like how Ewing made it clear that he is going to let go of 'his' Loki after this last story to let Cates (and whoever follows) do their thing, and with the nod to A Christmas Carol, that also kinda gave a nod to Aaron's run, so that was nice.

Also, I should have known Ewing would do the right thing, I was just worried when I saw the God of Stories version, that it would be a regression, and I don't like moving backwards, moving forward is why I like Loki right now. But looks like the story itself dealt with those periodic fears Loki might regress, and our tendency to sometimes fear the worst Even if I tend to be an optimist, it's hard to not have those thoughts sometimes, because regression is so common in comics, and then you saw the artwork without dialogue, well, it was easy to assume the worst. I do think the 'illusion of change' is falling out of fashion though, and I do think Loki really did 'win' and will not regress back to old characterizations, at least not any time soon. The momentum of the narrative now favours the new Loki. Loki may stagnate now and then, or stumble, but not get the reset button hit.

As for the Cates bit, I mean, I thought it was pretty significant, especially when paired with Ewing's contribution (the only one of the stories that directly tied in to Cates' run, even name dropped the Black Winter, interestingly. Though JMS' at least had a thematic connection, and Aaron's starred Odin, and bridged the gap between his run's depiction of Mjolnir and Cates', unlike the first two) Mainly, that it showed more trust of Loki from Thor, especially when he gave Loki the bow, AND Loki made a seemingly impossible shot that Thor couldn't. Kind of seems like foreshadowing to me. Thor gave Loki a magic weapon to act in his stead, and then Loki proved he was worthy of it by making that shot. *edit - yeah technically Thor did use him, i guess, but the thing is... Thor is SUPPOSED to do that. This time may be a bit out of the ordinary because of the specific situation, but in general, as King, Thor is supposed to delegate tasks. His big problem so far is that he hasn't been doing that, he's been trying to do everything, rather than relying on those around him to do their jobs, and that ends badly. He NEEDS someone to act in his stead in order to be a good king. Good leaders surround themselves with people who can perform needed tasks well, bad leaders try to do everything themselves. Also - an alternate interpretation dawned on me. It said that the rightful king should be the one to fire the arrow, so it could, alternately, be foreshadowing that Loki is that king. so we're just back to waffling between Champion and King, i guess.

The Valhalla reveal is strange though, I mean, surely Jane must know? how has she not said anything? But other than that quibble, intriguing. And may indicate Odin's soul isn't going to be around for too much longer.

ps. I liked how Aaron's story was inadvertently relevant to current events, in a way. Probably an accident, but they might have dressed Odin in blue and yellow and then tweak the dialogue so the giants were an overwhelming invasion that he smacked down, just saying.

[Yoruno]

I guess all war stories come as relevant these days (sigh)
It would be amazing if they tried to tie this Valhalla incident to the Mighty Valkyries events, but I guess they won't.
As for delegating, you definitely have a point, but in this case it looked more similar to Thor's previous manipulations. He refused to perform an act that he saw as meaningless, and he had Loki who had always been searching for acceptance and recognition. The shot itself might have been not as impossible as Loki claimed, and, imao, it was rather the matter of his self-esteem. Well, I understand that Thor gave Loki what he really needed, and it's a good thing both from a king's and a sibling's perspective, yet it's not the first time we see Thor playing on Loki's desires and weaknesses.(It's his turn to do this after all these years, haha).
The thing with Defenders and the God of Stories "final adventure" is that the final lines delivered by Loki are very tongue-in-cheek. I guess Ewing is giving here a kind of artistic licence to the future creators: they may move in both directions, developing the God of Stories thing or continuing with the King of Jotunheim. I have a feeling that the latter can only be a supporting character in Thor's stories. You know, it's like Neo Queen Serenity compared to Sailor Moon, the potential for an interesting story is very different for the two Lokis.
(Speaking of two Lokis, did you notice there was another Doctor Who reference? Jelly babies?)

[Emoandlazy]

I have nothing much to say about the issue since you guys already said it all . But I think the thing the last Loki saw might be the thing messing with fate since we didn't get the answer of who was doing that.Hopefully it's not another Loki.

Also I feel the what comes next Loki(the king of jotunhime Loki) probably feels like odin's death was his fault which what made him cry. After all he's the God of myths and stories he should've gotten the prophecy right. It's the present day he can't stop it from happening.

I read strange 2022 just to get what's happening with him and Clea. Doctor strange is still dead, Clea is being a shitty sorcerer Supreme and throwing tamper tantrums over things main while Wong is a little disappointed.Lmao and doctor strange thought Loki would've been a lousy sorcerer Supreme wait in till he sees his wife XD. At least Loki was trying to do his job, people were just making it harder. I want Loki to meet Clea because they're acting almost the same.

The vallhalla issue might be being discussed in the comic where she's getting thor's hammer. Thor probably is going to give her the hammer himself to spite Odin.

[Yoruno]

That's me again. It has dawned on me only now, sorry if it's obvious, but... that's AoA Loki meeting the future Loki again! King Loki, but not the evil one. The God of Stories was ready to meet old Loki who plotted against Odin but instead he finds a devastated son crying his eyes out at his father's funeral. That's why Loki says they won, he's ultimately changed his fate by becoming the Good King. I didn't even realize his story was SO consistent!

[Raye]

Not sure if it is King Loki.... King Loki would not care about Verity. I think this is like IMMEDIATELY after Loki stepped through the door at the end of the final issue, and is seeing their future self, before going off to do the Defenders thing. We'll see. likely will get more details of the exact timeframe with Defenders. But that's why I think Loki will have to go back, otherwise there is a time paradox. Defenders Loki needs to go back for the current Loki to exist. My hope is that Defenders shows how it goes from the end of AoA to the beginning of Aaron's time with Loki. Presumably comes to some realizations or something that causes a shift in perspective.

As for delegating, you definitely have a point, but in this case it looked more similar to Thor's previous manipulations. He refused to perform an act that he saw as meaningless, and he had Loki who had always been searching for acceptance and recognition. The shot itself might have been not as impossible as Loki claimed, and, imao, it was rather the matter of his self-esteem. Well, I understand that Thor gave Loki what he really needed, and it's a good thing both from a king's and a sibling's perspective, yet it's not the first time we see Thor playing on Loki's desires and weaknesses.(It's his turn to do this after all these years, haha).

I think the reasons are complicated, from not wanting to play Odin's games to just knowing he couldn't, or maybe he wanted Loki to miss... (His face didn't look too pleased after Loki hit the target) But while he knows Odin's spirit has not moved on, he still seems invested in keeping up appearances. And Odin's spirit not moving on isn't the same as not being dead. Odin may not be resurrected after this, just move on to Valhalla after it is presumably fixed, in which case the funeral is still important. Aside from spiting Odin, I can't see what Thor would gain by asking Loki to make that shot, if he could have done so himself. He lost face by handing Loki the bow. But he knew it was better to do that, than to take the shot and miss. (since it appears there was only one fancy arrow) But he knew Loki could use magic to help land the shot. Also I don't think Loki really wanted this, he protested pretty strongly, he just did what needed doing.

The thing with Defenders and the God of Stories "final adventure" is that the final lines delivered by Loki are very tongue-in-cheek. I guess Ewing is giving here a kind of artistic licence to the future creators: they may move in both directions, developing the God of Stories thing or continuing with the King of Jotunheim. I have a feeling that the latter can only be a supporting character in Thor's stories. You know, it's like Neo Queen Serenity compared to Sailor Moon, the potential for an interesting story is very different for the two Lokis.
(Speaking of two Lokis, did you notice there was another Doctor Who reference? Jelly babies?)

I think that's something that can only be addressed after Defenders is finished... it may tie up with God of Stories Loki explicitly going back to the time at the end of Agent of Asgard/Aaron's first use of Loki, which is the only way to avoid a paradox, unless we see some kind of cloning going on, or something.

And as I have said before, Loki's role as the king of Jotunheim is not fixed, that status quo does not have to be a forever thing. Loki as king of Jotunheim is kind of limited, sure, BUT that can very easily be changed, by making him the new Champion or the new king of Asgard. All that would need to happen in that case is to find a new king of Jotunheim, and I am sure they can make up something there that works.

Also I feel the what comes next Loki(the king of jotunhime Loki) probably feels like odin's death was his fault which what made him cry. After all he's the God of myths and stories he should've gotten the prophecy right. It's the present day he can't stop it from happening.

Might be! Loki kinda was like 'not my problem' right before, so wasn't helping against Mjolnir as much as he could have. While he didn't do anything bad, he may still feel guilty due to his inaction. Which is how refusal of the call generally works, after all. Refuse the call, then something bad happens, and then the next time the call comes, they answer it. Loki and Odin definitely had a very strained relationship, but there were times where it was good, and Odin did adopt Loki, which in itself is a big deal. Odin was not the best father, in many ways, he is deeply flawed. I mean he is still being a shit father to Thor. But it is still better than Laufey. Living in Asgard, Loki was able to become a god, learn powerful magic, found a family, even if they were a troubled one a lot of the time. (largely because of Loki, to be fair)

I read strange 2022 just to get what's happening with him and Clea. Doctor strange is still dead, Clea is being a shitty sorcerer Supreme and throwing tamper tantrums over things main while Wong is a little disappointed.Lmao and doctor strange thought Loki would've been a lousy sorcerer Supreme wait in till he sees his wife XD. At least Loki was trying to do his job, people were just making it harder. I want Loki to meet Clea because they're acting almost the same.

Hm, ok. I know she wants to bring Stephen back, from things i have seen in solicits, and so she may be focused on that rather than, you know, being a good Sorcerer Supreme? Which is kind of disappointing since she definitely has the skills to be a good one. But given what we saw in this issue of Thor, I'm guessing all members of the team will be plucked from various points in the timestream, so Defenders Strange could be from any time. Will be interesting to see if that Strange is before or after Cates' story with Loki. if after, then we have a situation where Strange knows what will happen, but Loki doesn't, which could be... awkward. Especially since Strange knew WHAT happened but not WHY. If before, it could be inadvertently priming Strange to buy into Loki's ploy later.

The vallhalla issue might be being discussed in the comic where she's getting thor's hammer. Thor probably is going to give her the hammer himself to spite Odin.

It would be amazing if they tried to tie this Valhalla incident to the Mighty Valkyries events, but I guess they won't.

Wasn't Valkyries in Hel rather than Valhalla? though, they are connected. Still, you'd think Jane would have told Thor if Valhalla got busted, regardless of how it happened. I guess we maybe have not seen Jane, at least in the Thor book, for a while. But she is here at the funeral, so... I mean she's a Valkyrie, she goes to Valhalla as part of her duties, she would have been the first one to know, you'd think. Hopefully that is explained. And yeah, tho the story with Jane getting the hammer again is clearly kind of a movie tie-in, they could also tie it to Cates' story with Valhalla and Odin.


btw. going through the issue again, once again, poor Balder. just shunted off to the sidelines. I get why Tyr is not there, he's going to have to earn trust back. But Balder is just off on the sidelines while Thor and Loki dominate the proceedings, long lost sister Angela is given more prominence, he got like 2 panels in the main story.

[Yoruno]

I don't mean the role thing, I mean the symbolism implied.

See, in AoA Loki sees his own future, and that's evil King Loki. Here in this Thor issue, the AoA Loki (the God of Stories, to be precise) sees his own future, and that's King Loki of Jotunheim. The God of Stories is prepared to see his future evil self, that is why he suspects at first that Odin's death was Loki's fault: "Did you do it? Or were you the hand behind the hand?" But then he sees Loki mourning Odin and softens.

In AoA, Loki's future self was evil. Now, the Loki that we have in Thor issues IS the AoA Loki's future, but he is good. And he is King. All this time Loki was progressing in a way which could have been similar to Old Loki's, but with a strikingly different outcome, and that's what his/their victory is.

As for Balder and Angela being ignored, here I see a glimpse of hope for us Loki's fans - but I'm ready to find it everywhere, so the following theory might be very tinfoil. Odin had many children, but only two of them are given prominence in this issue - which is called The Second Son of Asgard. These words are repeated in the frame where we only see Thor and Loki, no one else. Yes, I know that these words refer to Odin. Yes, I know it was a wordplay from Loki (the second SUN of Asgard). But, deliberately or not, they sound quite... promising in a frame where only two sons of Asgard are shown, the second one being Loki. Right after the scene where Loki performs the duty of the royal heir by shooting the arrow. My session of wishful thinking is over, thanks for your attention.

[Raye]

oh, ok, sorry i misunderstood. But yeah, I agree. Loki there was kind of like us readers, in a way. Like that, um, heated discussion a while back in this thread, about whether Loki was doomed to regress or not. Hope for the best, but that fear for the worst always lurks to some extent. Just that the balance is different for some people.

One other thing that's interesting about that Loki seeing the future, is that it means, in theory, he has known since the end of AoA that Odin would die. Which could pile even more guilt on the decision to not help with Mjolnir. It might also explain some of the other times Loki's seemed to know more than he should, if there ends up being more time travel in Defenders. But here, they just saw a fragment. So Loki could see that Odin would die... but how, and even when, because Thor was asleep for months and the funeral was delayed all that time, is up in the air. Could have been something completely unpreventable, or could be something easily prevented with forewarning but that particular information is not known. But because of the unusually large time difference between Odin dying and the funeral, it might be that Loki thought he still had time to do something about it?

And yes, while I feel bad for Balder getting shoved to the background again, it is very encouraging for Loki that he got such a prominent role here. I think Cates may (finally!) be kicking the Loki portion of the story into gear.

[Yoruno]

I wonder whether Loki still has a kingdom to rule. I guess the majority of Jotnar didn't survive the recent attack?
By the way, although I understand that home affairs won't make an exciting story for a comic book, but the Asgardian royal family has always neglected their duties to an astonishing degree. We almost never see them rule their realms.

[Emoandlazy]

Hm, ok. I know she wants to bring Stephen back, from things i have seen in solicits, and so she may be focused on that rather than, you know, being a good Sorcerer Supreme? Which is kind of disappointing since she definitely has the skills to be a good one

Actually she did make the spell receriered to get him back now she's just waiting for him. Some guy who looks like moonknight and some zombies appeared instead. He told her that he can't let her bring him back fought the zombies with her then run away.Everyone keeps warning her about bringing him back. I'm guessing that's where zombie doctor strange would come into play. Kinda ironic since I thought he might turn into a vampire like his brother did.

Also about Jane's comic nvm.I read the comic's description and the hammer came to her,meaning Odin chose to go to her instead of you know his son Loki? Smh. Asgard being in danger and Thor not being around is mentioned so I'm assuming this comic event takes place after Thor: Lightning and Lament.

Loki will probably appear for a panel or two then disappear because the writer couldn't be bothered with him since he's mentioned nowhere in both issues description in Jane's comics. He's not even fighting with sif. Aren't Asgard and jotunheim friends now? Why isn't Loki at least sending some of them to help??

They even went to voodoo for magic help which like what the hell? You guys have Loki, he uses magic??? It's kinda understandable on Jane's part; she probably still has her head up her ass and still doesn't trust Loki(sorry for the swearing I just don't really like Jane Foster for my own personal reasons ) but Odin??? Seriously??

[Raye]

I wonder whether Loki still has a kingdom to rule. I guess the majority of Jotnar didn't survive the recent attack?
By the way, although I understand that home affairs won't make an exciting story for a comic book, but the Asgardian royal family has always neglected their duties to an astonishing degree. We almost never see them rule their words.

Depends on how many giants there are in Jotunheim, and how many were killed, i guess. Definitely some wiggle room there. We saw a bunch killed, but is it the equivalent of killing a neighbourhood? a city? more? hard to say from the few panels we saw. Those panels may have shown the entire scope of the destruction or a tiny fragment of it. Based on how the giants have served as cannon fodder for Thor many times, I presume they have a pretty large population to be able to replenish their losses... There were some giants at Odin's funeral, though, so at least some remain.

But again, I really don't see the whole King of Jotunheim thing as a big obstacle, it's ridiculously easy to get around. It hasn't been dealt with yet probably only because the time is not yet right.

Also about Jane's comic nvm.I read the comic's description and the hammer came to her,meaning Odin chose to go to her instead of you know his son Loki? Smh. Asgard being in danger and Thor not being around is mentioned so I'm assuming this comic event takes place after Thor: Lightning and Lament.

Loki will probably appear for a panel or two then disappear because the writer couldn't be bothered with him since he's mentioned nowhere in both issues description in Jane's comics. He's not even fighting with sif. Aren't Asgard and jotunheim friends now? Why isn't Loki at least sending some of them to help??

They even went to voodoo for magic help which like what the hell? You guys have Loki, he uses magic??? It's kinda understandable on Jane's part; she probably still has her head up her ass and still doesn't trust Loki(sorry for the swearing I just don't really like Jane Foster for my own personal reasons ) but Odin??? Seriously??

I am not sure what you are talking about. Was there some kind of preview? All I know comes from the solicit, Thor is gone, Loki is in charge of Asgard in his absence, Sif is injured, and the hammer goes to Jane, or something like that.

It still doesn't make sense to me. Not about Jane being chosen, I think that Marvel wants do have Jane back as 'Thor' as a sort of movie tie in, so in that sense I am not concerned about Loki or someone not being picked. I think this is temporary and just so they have a new story on the shelves for the movie. But it just doesn't work with what just happened to Mjolnir. The worthyness/transformation/thunder enchantment is gone. Thor also said only he can hear Odin, so I don't even know if this has to do with Odin at all. I am curious to know what she thinks about why she was deemed worthy (as well as others like Bill, etc) now that Mjolnir went mask off and was revealed to not be the benevolent force it was assumed to be, though. so I hope there is a bit of that in there, at least. But Torunn hasn't played nice in terms of fitting things in with Cates run previously, so kind of anticipating some more contradictions here. It's just a one shot tho, can probably be safely ignored if it doesn't fit with continuity

[Yoruno]

I've only now realized what exactly Thor says in #24. "We are fixed points, ummutable and unchangeable. What Odin and Loki were, they are and will be forever". Eh? How does that correspond with Loki's story? Does this mean Thor still sees Loki as God of Lies? Or could it be that Loki is misguided about his own nature? Oh please, not again - though the former variant is not a comforting one as well.

[Prof. Aegis]

I've only now realized what exactly Thor says in #24. "We are fixed points, ummutable and unchangeable. What Odin and Loki were, they are and will be forever". Eh? How does that correspond with Loki's story? Does this mean Thor still sees Loki as God of Lies? Or could it be that Loki is misguided about his own nature? Oh please, not again - though the former variant is not a comforting one as well.

I'm hoping this is how Thor sees everyone and life as well. He often seems very fixed in his mindset. "Everyone is who they are and nothing really changes", and while Thor thinks this way, the story will be able to show how the characters can grow or have grown. So Loki isn't fixed, but has been growing and changing as we've seen and will be shown in Cates story.

This is only my thought. I'm hoping we aren't going backwards to the old ways.

[Raye]

Yeah, that's basically what I was going to say. Thor is resistant to change, it's been a running theme in Cates' run, and as a result he may assume everyone else is resistant to change as well. I think that is one reason Blake and Mjolnir going rogue hit him so hard. To his perspective, they should have been unchanging and... they weren't. But if they changed, or at least were not quite what they appeared, in the case of Mjolnir, then the same likely holds true for Loki, but in his case, for the better.