Loki Appreciation 2022

[Yoruno]

I have to admit I don't understand Loki in Cates's run. Is it due to the role shift that he seems to be the only calm and sensible character? Loki has always been the embodiment of chaos (he's happened to be chaotic evil/neutral/good at various stages), but now that the chaos is everywhere he's the one opposing it! I can even believe in Loki the peacemaker because he's very different from his feral family. IDK, Loki not being chaotic is even weirder than the superhero Axis Loki.

[jwatson]

I have to admit I don't understand Loki in Cates's run. Is it due to the role shift that he seems to be the only calm and sensible character? Loki has always been the embodiment of chaos (he's happened to be chaotic evil/neutral/good at various stages), but now that the chaos is everywhere he's the one opposing it! I can even believe in Loki the peacemaker because he's very different from his feral family. IDK, Loki not being chaotic is even weirder than the superhero Axis Loki.

That stood out to me too and also thor feels like an episode of grey's anatomy in the sense that every time i try the book again i feel like i'm seeing the same scene with different people. For instance last time i read there was the scene with angela reading Thor the riot act and him and odin going at it and her basically telling them to get it together, it feels like the scene with odin/loki/thor was exactly the same in this issue complete with the reprimand from loki. So while the issue was drawn and written well a lot of things felt repetitive or didn't feel like it fit.

[Raye]

It is a bit repetitive, but on the other hand, i see some people who still haven't gotten it through their skulls that Thor's doing a bad job. They think his ridiculous tough guy act is admirable or something. So this may be what it takes for it to sink in. And for Thor as well, who can be a bit dense. I am finding the overarching plot to drag more than I'd like, yeah. I am normally just fine with decompressed storytelling, and don't mind letting things breathe, but we are 20 issues in now, and i feel we should be further along. But on the other hand, I do believe in show, don't tell, and i think Thor needs to fail more than once to be considered a bad king. so.... a bit of repetition is necessary in that regard. Also, i do think the Angela will have consequences other than just her dressing him down, I think she will make good on her promise, and we will have an attempted coup on our hands on top of everything else. Like Loki said, the realms are barely being kept from rebellion, so it's not much of a stretch to think Angela may be the first to make a move.

And yeah, I was kind of amazed at how Loki was portrayed (assuming it is legit). I think it's legit because a) I'm biased and b) there's already a lot going on right now. Thanos wielding Mjolnir with the infinity gems is enough of a threat, imo, that introducing another challenge would just undermine him. There's also no foreshadowing I can think of in Cates' run that points to Loki betraying Thor -- pretty much the only reason he would do so is because of his past, which Cates has taken pains to show Loki overcoming (giving the role to Blake). Also, I'm not sure how Thor would actually win without seeming unbeatable. There's also the fact that this has to wrap up in a few issues, and Thor is set to fight the Hulk after, which indicates to me that the mess will be resolved by then. And I don't think Loki would need to tell anyone that Thor attacked, given that only a handful of people know about Thor's problems with Mjolnir. I just don't see what Loki betraying Thor adds, at this point.

So, yeah, assuming this is all legit, Loki was portrayed in a super flattering manner. The narrative also contrasted him with Odin, who played the role of a fool. Like, Thor hushed Odin to hear what Loki had to say. It could put him more in a support role (tends to be more one dimensional), but for now I'm happy.

I'm hoping he shows up in MoM as well, and I think it's likely he will fingers crossed.

ETA: Also, unlike Sif, Loki's not even a vassal of Asgard, and this isn't his job. He is pretty much doing his job + Thor's job.

Yeah, like Loki didn't have that many pages, but the ones he had were pretty significant, when you think about it, and has him solidly joining Sif on the voice of reason side of things. He has as much reason as anyone to be mad, after Mjolnir decimated his kingdom, and I am sure he IS mad, but he's not letting that get in the way of what needs to be done, and I think he realizes that Thor didn't intend for any of this.

As for the betrayal question, it's just that after so long of Loki being the kind of person who would happily manipulate the realms into attacking Asgard, it's hard to get that thought out of your head, and I am sure it's intentional. I am sure many readers are just assuming this is at least in part some kind of plot by Loki. But yeah, it doesn't really line up with some of the past scenes we've seen with Loki this run so far.

Oh cool. I didn't know that.

I'm also hoping he pops up in Timeless. Loki up against other villians is always fun.

That one, i am less sure about... While Loki has dealt with time travel at times in the comics, it's not something he's particularly closely linked to, so... i dunno. they may include him for a vague MCU nod, but he doesn't really have an comics based reason to be involved.

I have to admit I don't understand Loki in Cates's run. Is it due to the role shift that he seems to be the only calm and sensible character? Loki has always been the embodiment of chaos (he's happened to be chaotic evil/neutral/good at various stages), but now that the chaos is everywhere he's the one opposing it! I can even believe in Loki the peacemaker because he's very different from his feral family. IDK, Loki not being chaotic is even weirder than the superhero Axis Loki.

I think it's just following the previous character development, plus he just hasn't had a lot of panel time. Loki's changed, he's no longer a big ball of chaos, after having that repeatedly backfire on him. When he was a villain, he caused chaos for the sake of it, chaos was the entire goal a lot of the time. He doesn't want to do that anymore. He tried to do good with his old methods, but, while he did sometimes accomplish some good things, it never went particularly well for him, (forced to do bad things for Malekith to do the double agent thing, alienating his family again in the process, and eventually resulted in him dying, captured by Celestials, attacked by the Void, etc) so why would he keep doing that, when other methods would cause him a lot less trouble? I mean, i think he's kept some of that plotting and mischief to him, and it still pops up sometimes, and is still a potential tool for him touse when necessary... but it hasn't been his goal to cause chaos for a long time, and if using it as a tool only brings him as much grief as it causes his opponent, why use that as his go to method? If you want him to be a better person, that's going to come with changes to how he goes about things, it just will. This kind of strikes me as like telling your recovering alcoholic friend that they're not as much fun since they stopped drinking.

[Yoruno]

A friend is a friend, while a character is a character, and there should be some consistency in their development (Valkyries? All-Father? OK, the Valkyries might be irrelevant to the major plot).
And I don't mean it's bad that Loki has become a better person. He might actually be good and chaotic at the same time, like in his solo book. My point is, to me his sensible behavior in the ongoing comics is less a result of personal character development and more like an emphasis on the fact that the world has gone upside down and inside out. Thor is a destroyer rather than a protector, Odin is an old fool, and Loki is the voice of reason. He says that all of them are myths; but as we see, the myths and stories are now reversed, as with Blake or Mjolnir.

[rpmaluki]

But what would be the benefit of Loki adding chaos to an already chaotic situation? It's not going to make things better for anyone. Loki's experience in the past decade has revolved around him seeing the consequences of his terrible actions. He spent all that time trying and failing to break that cycle. I like that he hasn't given up on what he wants for himself if it's making those small gains of not reverting back to his OG self in the face of an ingrained expectation that he'llnever truly change. Right now he is in a better vantage point of seeing the end point of destructive patterns, even under the guise of doing good . He has a different perspective that can help Thor and ultimately help Asgard. The issues here is that HE is not the problem and let's be real, he hasn't been the problem for years. This is the new reality. He hasn't lost the qualities that make him Loki but just because he's not giving in to his baser nature should not mean he's not allowed to grow a bit and go the responsible route for once after decades of blatant failure because of his short comings. Learning from past mistakes is always good for character growth, it means he's not complacent or redundant.

All good characters have progressive or regressive arcs, that is the mark and point of a good story.

[Lambadelta]

I sometimes wonder if it might just be easier for Loki to revert back to his old evil self because if after 7 years or so there are still people questioning his face-turn and not believing in it, including his own fans, then I don’t think there’s any hope whatsoever for Loki. There comes a time where one must just admit defeat. I don't know I think it's just time to accept that no one is going to accept the face-turn ever.

About the latest issue. Well Loki has pretty much been this way ever since Thor (2020) began. He's been a lot more level-headed and I think that's just him taking his duties seriously as king and falling into old habits. plus even when Loki does fall back into old habits for the last 7 years it has always been for the greater good or either his family (namely Thor) or the whole entire universe. So him causing the other realms to go against Thor would completely go against the character that has been set up for the last 7 years or so. I mean if there was any way for a war of realms situation to benefit Loki in protecting the realms then I could understand it but there literally isn't. And I guess some could say he's using this as a ploy to get the throne but Loki has never shown any interest in the throne lately and I don't think he even is interested in being king of Asgard.

The only time that he's maybe shown any type of interest is in The mighty Valkyries when he made a passing comment about being an All-Father.

[Emoandlazy]

Honestly to me whilst yes it's kinda weird marvel Loki should never be the voice of reason and if he is then know you're fucked.But on the other hand I'm kinda proud of him if his intention wasn't bad,my child is growing up.He's learning from his mistakes rather than moving on and acting like they never happened. Hope Thor can learn from his brother.

[Emoandlazy]

I have to admit I don't understand Loki in Cates's run. Is it due to the role shift that he seems to be the only calm and sensible character? Loki has always been the embodiment of chaos (he's happened to be chaotic evil/neutral/good at various stages), but now that the chaos is everywhere he's the one opposing it! I can even believe in Loki the peacemaker because he's very different from his feral family. IDK, Loki not being chaotic is even weirder than the superhero Axis Loki.

Honestly to me whilst yes it's kinda weird marvel Loki should never be the voice of reason and if he is then know you're fucked.But on the other hand I'm kinda proud of him if his intention wasn't bad,my child is growing up.He's learning from his mistakes rather than moving on and acting like they never happened. Hope Thor can learn from his brother.

[Raye]

But what would be the benefit of Loki adding chaos to an already chaotic situation? It's not going to make things better for anyone. Loki's experience in the past decade has revolved around him seeing the consequences of his terrible actions. He spent all that time trying and failing to break that cycle. I like that he hasn't given up on what he wants for himself if it's making those small gains of not reverting back to his OG selling the face of an ingrained expectation that he'llnever truly change. Right now he is in a better vantage point of seeing the end point of destructive patterns, even under the guise of doing good . He has a different perspective that can help Thor and ultimately help Asgard. The issues here is that HE is not the problem and let's be real, he hasn't been the problem for years. This is the new reality. He hasn't lost the qualities that make him Loki but just because he's not giving in to his baser nature should not mean he's not allowed to grow a bit and go the responsible route for once after decades of blatant failure because of his short comings. Learning from past mistakes is always good for character growth, it means he's not complacent or redundant.

All good characters have progressive or regressive arcs, that is the mark and point of a good story.

Yeah, this, basically. Loki's been learning from his actions what works for him now that he's trying to be better, and it may just be that his old tactics have to fall by the wayside for his progress to stick. And I think his past does give him a better perspective than most to see how trying to accomplish good intentions with bad actions (which is what Thor is doing now, or at least that's how it was during Black Winter, which then created a snowball effect) just isn't worth it.

I mean, I did kinda go off into the reeds the other day, largely because I see this idea that characters, and Loki in particular, shouldn't be allowed to make changes that result in them behaving too differently. This is especially prevalent in comics, in part because for a long time the Big 2 did follow this philosophy of creating an 'illusion of change', it was even explicitly spelled out by Stan Lee, that you should never change things in any significant way, just make gestures of change while nothing of any significance is changed in the long run. And I do get not wanting to lose what you like about a character as they go through character development. But to me, that just seems to be paying lip service to change, making it very superficial, and over time it feels hollow, and leads to a jaded fan base that doesn't accept that any change will last, and just waits for changes to get undone when they happen.I mean, we can see this with readers of Thor that won't accept Loki's face turn. And I think the illusion of change has been falling out of fashion for some time. Like, JIM was explicitly a critique of this philosophy. The tug of fate towards his old 'god of lies' role that Loki's been fighting in universe is just a metaphor for the illusion of change in a lot of ways. One that's been used by many writers since Gillen, including Cates, with his emphasis on the pull of nostalgia, and how it can be negative. (though it doesn't have to be) Basically, I don't believe we should bar Loki, whose whole face turn has been motivated and defined by fighting against the illusion of change, from making some actual change to his character now that he's apparently succeeded. To have an entire character journey defined by critiques of the illusion, to just fall victim to it in the end, just... :-/ Yeah, we will get less chaos from him, probably. But he can still be interesting in other ways, I think that's one of the things I find most interesting about him, that you can like different things about him, depending on when the particular story falls on his journey. ALL the reasons can't apply to every point in his journey, but that's ok.

I sometimes wonder if it might just be easier for Loki to revert back to his old evil self because if after 7 years or so there are still people questioning his face-turn and not believing in it, including his own fans, then I don’t think there’s any hope whatsoever for Loki. There comes a time where one must just admit defeat. I don't know I think it's just time to accept that no one is going to accept the face-turn ever.

In a way, i think that makes things more interesting. I do want him to continue to grow and be better, but lingering doubt in the back of my mind kinda helps him feel more dynamic, like his actions have more weight. It can be frustrating when some readers outright refuse to accept the change, yeah, but that doesn't affect the stories being told, and it doesn't affect me, and how i see the character. And I do think they are using this uncertainty intentionally, for that reason. It creates a tension in the story you wouldn't otherwise have.

About the latest issue. Well Loki has pretty much been this way ever since Thor (2020) began. He's been a lot more level-headed and I think that's just him taking his duties seriously as king and falling into old habits. plus even when Loki does fall back into old habits for the last 7 years it has always been for the greater good or either his family (namely Thor) or the whole entire universe. So him causing the other realms to go against Thor would completely go against the character that has been set up for the last 7 years or so. I mean if there was any way for a war of realms situation to benefit Loki in protecting the realms then I could understand it but there literally isn't. And I guess some could say he's using this as a ploy to get the throne but Loki has never shown any interest in the throne lately and I don't think he even is interested in being king of Asgard.

The only time that he's maybe shown any type of interest is in The mighty Valkyries when he made a passing comment about being an All-Father.

Yeah, like i said, it was just a nagging thought. One I do know some fans will probably assume is the case. But yeah, i can't actually see why he would do that, given where he is at right now.

edit - oh, right, and I was gonna say, that yeah, things feel a bit topsy turvy right now, but I think all the characters involved do have motivations that make their actions make sense. I do get where Thor is coming from, even if i find his stubbornness and excessive aggression frustrating. (and to be fair, i think we are SUPPOSED to find him frustrating) I understand why it is happening, I get why he has imposter syndrome, and how that can lead to feeling overwhelmed, and feeling like he can't be seen as weak, so he ends up over compensating with the tough guy act and throwing his weight around, and in turn that can lead to the nostalgia for simpler times, that's led him refusing to part with his old role, and also led to freeing Blake. An then there was what the Black Winter showed him, which made the imposter syndrome even worse, as well as adding some very real fears for the future, add on to all that the fact that he has fucked up, and everyone knows it, and he knows he is seen as having failed, which is the last thing he wanted, especially after what he saw from the Black Winter, and it's all mixed together to where we are at with Thor now, where he's trying to pin it all on Odin, to make himself feel better about the situation. Odin likewise, while we haven't seen a lot from him on panel, it's not hard to extrapolate from what has been happening where he is at right now. Blake was also given motivation for his turn. Not as much panel time as Thor, or Loki (although in his case, mostly in the books leading into this run, but Cates is apparently using that to inform his motivations) but motivations all the same. So while the end result is that things feel all topsy turvy, it's not like it just happened for no reason.

I do think Thor's change in particular is likely temporary, as he is being forced to make a lot of changes to his life very quickly, and he will find some healthier path after working through things. But I do think it was important that he go through this all the same, and I hope he doesn't just end up right back where he started.

[Yoruno]

I love it that among other life lessons Loki learned there's compassion and humility. Actually, it's the phrase about humility addressed to Blake that makes me sure Loki is not plotting against Thor, and his ability to empathize proves that the whole Mjolnir business together with the recent massacre is not another trick to make Thor realise what a lousy ruler he is. (That would also be a self-repeating situation from Loki's Doctor Strange story).
Once again, I'm not trying to say that Loki should go back to his old ways and that he doesn't need development. I only mean that now it is strikingly noticeable how far all of these characters have gone from their original selves, from the stereotypes they used to represent and from the cliches and boundaries that "fans" still want them to fit. IDK maybe I don't express myself clearly again. I find it amazing that the brothers have reversed polarities - Loki represents order while Thor channels chaos. I just wonder whether the change is a circle or a spiral.

[Raye]

It was just that what you said reminded me of things i had seen in the past, and i was responding to those past comments, as well. it's just a pet peeve that you triggered.

But yeah, I think one of the reasons I have been enjoying following the Asgard stuff for a while now, more than other books, is because the illusion of change thing was increasingly annoying to me. Like at first, you don't even notice it, but then as time goes on the more you realize how frozen in place characters in superhero comics usually are, how often things get reset over time, the most noticeable example being how hard it is to keep a character in the grave. There have been a few exceptions here and there, though recently, the exceptions are becoming the norm, which is cool, but usually restricted to lower profile characters. characters of Spider-Man's tier on the other hand get One More Day to reset the status quo. So to have this book with a pretty high profile character actually critiquing that was appealing to me. And the end result of that is what we have now, with the characters being in pretty different places from where they started. I think that's interesting, some others find that it removes what they liked, or they feel they are acting out of character, despite the on page journey to get from point a to point b. But because of the past with comics constantly resetting major changes, it does create that nagging feeling that it's due to be reset, despite the fact that Loki's turn in particular was really in depth, directly criticized that kind of reversion, and has lasted like 10 years now.

But like i said above, i do suspect Thor's recent troubles are meant to be a transitional thing, that he was never intended to stay like he is now, and I think that's a good thing cus he's quite frustrating to read about at the moment. Like in a good way, as a part of a journey, but i wouldn't want this to be long term for him, he should be better than this. But whether that is transition to something new, or back to the beginning, and whether he drags other characters along with him if it is a reversion, because he is the flagship character of the Asgard corner of things, hard to say. Making Blake a villain comes across as a statement from Cates though, that this is not a reversion across all of Asgard, even if Thor does.

[Lambadelta]

I agree on the whole characters becoming too stagnant, which is why I enjoy Loki and this new direction of change that a lot of Asgardian characters are going through now. I also think the new Asgardian narrative, at least one of them, is that you can’t outrun your past and mistakes forever. Loki learnt this lesson and is now, like many others have pointed out, is trying to learn from his past rather than ignore it completely and pretend it didn’t happen. Odin and Thor are both going through something similar yet opposite to each other when it comes to their own pasts. With Odin, like Loki, he tried to run from his past and his mistakes and pretend like they didn’t happen, or he wasn’t the cause of them but over the last few years he’s been no longer able to do this and had to face the consequences for his past mistakes and still continues to pay. Odin isn’t really a main character in the comics and is rarely seen so his character development isn’t nearly as well done as let’s say Loki’s, but we still see the changes in Odin, mostly because his whole life has changed in many ways. Thor is also connected to the past but in a completely different way as for him it’s not about his past mistakes catching up to him (although his recent mistakes are) but rather him wanting to run as fast as he can back into the past where he was this great admired warrior, and this respected superhero. This isn’t surprising in the least as Thor was raised to be a warrior, he wasn’t raised to be a King, even though that’s exactly how he should have been raised because he was always destined for the throne. But we see in Cates run that he just isn’t ready at all to be King nor is he ready to handle the magic of Asgard, another thing that Thor should have been taught but wasn’t.

And I do think this is a story of choice and/or change to how Asgard is ran. Now I don’t know if those changes will be Thor having to choose between either being a king and giving up being a warrior and superhero and passing down the mantle to someone else. Loki would be the ideal choice of course not only because it’s been foreshadowed in other comics but he’s already half-way there or Thor choosing to give up being King to go back to doing what he loves most which seems to be the direction they are going in if Hulk vs. Thor is anything to do by which in one way is a shame but in another it’s also understandable. I think it’s hard to create stories of a very powerful king which is why there were very few stories of Odin. Thor can pretty much beat nearly anyone with nearly absolute ease and that type of story just becomes boring after a while.
I think when it comes to Loki it’s about writers finding that balance between continuing to develop his character in the right direction but still leaving some essence of the old Loki, mostly his mischief making and sometimes chaotic ways. The chaos nor the mischief aspect has gone from his character, it’s still there but there is a difference in that Loki is no longer using these methods or tools just for his own kicks or for the sake of it. Now he uses them for tools to do good if needs to. It’s no longer I will use chaos to make others suffer or to cause as much damage as I possibly can, but I will use chaos to create a situation to help others instead. I’m even guessing this is exactly what he’s doing in Ms. Marvel: Beyond the limit because there’s no doubt that it’s Loki that’s creating the Bollywood scene that Ms. Marvel is in but for what reason we don’t know but it’s likely help Ms. Marvel in some way.

Loki has become less and less chaotic though which I think is a good thing and the right direction for his character. I mean Loki’s character still has many faults, one of which is that he’s still a pretty crappy father, or in More’s case a very crappy Grandfather and very hypocritical in my opinion when it came to More. He can also still be quite cruel and ruthless like what he did to Blake but he can also show empathy and compassion like he also did to Blake. But personally, I like that dubious in Loki’s character. He can be a character who is very selfish but can also be very selfless. He can be very chaotic and mischievous but he can also be a character who takes things seriously.

Unpopular opinion but I'm one of those who hopes Loki doesn't appear in MoM. I use to love movie Loki but have not since TR and his character just keeps getting worse. This is my opinion of course but I just don't want to see the character I used to love be ruined even further. Current Comic Loki has and always will be my favourite though unless they choose to ruin him as well.

I forget to say I really love the part where Loki just teleported Odin and Thor to Jotenheim. So not only can be teleport himself across realms but other people as well including very powerful ones.

[Raye]

Yeah, for a long time i was just operating under the assumption that Thor would just have to suck it up and get over it, learn on the job, ask for some help, in order to become a better king, fill the role he had been assigned properly. This also played into Loki being foreshadowed to be taking Thor's place as the champion/warrior, which i do still think was the intent of Aaron and Kibblesmith. But it seems Thor may just not be able, and/or want to be, a better ruler. And while Loki may not be perfect, he does have the most foreshadowing to step into that role if Thor steps down, aside from maybe Angela (though I think she would not be any better than Thor, and she would probably take it by force, while I think Loki wold be given the role) after his character growth over the past several years, I do think he would do a much better job than Thor, he's already doing a lot of Thor's job. And while this is definitely a step up for him from being the villain of the story, yeah, I do fear it may not be good for him in terms of panel time, so i am hoping for some kind of restructuring in Asgard, that would allow him a bit more freedom to appear in stories. I think a Triumvirate with Thor and Loki, plus either Sif or Angela could work.

anyway, new thread, so just a recap, i maintain a playlist for Thor on Youtube and Spotify, (Youtube being longer, because it has some stuff from before Cates' run began, and is where i first build it, so it's got a bunch of 'keep this in mind for later, maybe' stuff at the end, which i may or may not use in the future) where I add a few songs per issue released, though there aren't any real specifics, sometimes an issue gets one song, sometimes like 5. It's just fun, it makes me pay attention to lyrics, and go looking for new stuff, or old songs i may have not listened to in a while. Cates' run has been good for me, cus I am a metal fan, and his run of Thor has been Metal AF. Though there is a bunch of other genres in there too, grunge especially has had a prominent place due to the focus on nostalgia, (grunge is my nostalgia zone) but also some blues, folk, punk, pop.... but mostly metal, so if you're not into that, sorry, may not be for you. you might be surprised though, metal is a lot more diverse in sound than i think a lot of people realize. ANYWAY! I wasn't planning to do the most recent issue yet, but I was listening to you know one of those 'made for you' playlists, and it had like 3 songs that were a perfect fit, so... yeah. From Trivium's Catastrophist (118 on Youtube, 94 on Spotify) through to Ghost's Cirise, but up till Worst of Me by Tardigrade Inferno are songs I am pretty sure will apply to the next issue or two, but they are not really sorted. It was another solid issue, got a few of my very favourite songs in there, and finally got the chance to use AC/DC's Thunderstruck! but yeah, Cataphrotist was one of the songs the algorithm blessed me with, like I listen to Trivium, but that song just hadn't really popped to mind, but perfect fit here.

I used this one waaaaaay back at the beginning of Cates' run, but going back and listening, it would also fit now:

or hell, that next one, Streets of Gold, as well. Just because it's coming back to the themes of Thor not being a good fit in the role again. I dunno if i should move it up or not. I had expected i would hit a point where i would be tempted to reuse songs long before this, but this is kinda the first time since Cates' run began where i've felt tempted to do that.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I reread Kieron Gillen's run on Young Avengers recently. The last kid loki panel with the green specter versionmade me wonder if he's supposed to have a crush on America. Which I find funny because I shipped Loki/Sif back in the day. Maybe Loki has a thing for strong women?... or I'm just adding subtext....?

I'll probably finish reading this run later. I didn't buy the second volume when it was on sale.

[Raye]

Hm, I always got the feeling he liked Billy, hence trying to sabotage the relationship between him and Teddy (subconsciously, cus a lot of that came from 'Leah' but still) and of course he hit on Prodigy in the final issue. Tho it's a bit frustrating how we keep getting hints and almosts with Loki as far as relationships go. I am not saying i want him to get attached to someone on a permanent basis, but... when the most substantial 'relationship' he's had since the face turn was Zelma, which was only for a few issues, and then they broke up (tho he seemed interested in starting things again in Strange Academy) it's a bit frustrating. Guy or girl, new character or established, I'm not terribly picky about who, I just think it would be nice.

So, shower thought this morning, which would be another point in favour of Loki (or well, just someone besides Thor) taking over the throne, assuming it all goes in repeating cycles.... Odin was not the first to take the throne after Bor. Cul was. And he ran things into the ground, which necessitated the throne to be seized from him by Odin. I can't believe this hadn't crossed my mind earlier. Now, Cul was an actual tyrant, while Thor is just incompetent, and I very much doubt Thor will have to be locked up for thousands upon thousands of years, only to come back as a villain later. (that honor may go to Blake. who was locked up by Loki, not Thor, so still fits.) But still... the succession between Bor and Odin wasn't direct, it had a blip with a bad ruler in between. Just saying.... Also, maybe Angela is the new goddess of Fear rather than War?