Loki Appreciation 2022

[Fanto.mx]

The "realness" of multiple Lokis is always up for debate, since we've repeatedly had Loki talking to other Lokis, but there's always exactly one real Loki, even when King Loki showed up. I would fully expect that something similar is happening here, where we're getting a semi-magical introspection thing happening.

Revealing that "our" Loki isn't the "real" Loki, regardless of whether or not he's real real, would be a weird betrayal. Raye mentioned Ben Reilly, and yeah, I think this would feel like that, though Loki is admittedly a much smaller character than mid-90s Spider-Man.

I think the best piece of evidence that we're not going to get two true Lokis is how similar they are in appearance. If, for example, this was going to launch a God of Stories Loki story while "our" Loki still appears in the Thor book, it would make much, much more sense for the two to be very different in appearance, to better separate the two in the minds of readers.

[Raye]

I am hoping that in the wake of all this stuff Cates is doing and Loki maybe/hopefully becoming champion, we get a new solo book, so we have something to look forward to month in and month out again. I wish it could have happened sooner, but better late than never.

And yeah, magical introspection is what I suspect this is. Something like that one page story Gillen did:



Which I would be fine with. I could also accept the time travel angle, but I also don't think that is strictly necessary. Maybe it helps motivate him, but hopefully in the way that fits what Cates is planning. Cates is steering the ship right now, and these little stories should either help support that, or just stay out of his way if they don't want to.

Also, something was nagging at me about the proposed scenario, something it reminded me of, but couldn't quite put my finger on right then, about why it rubbed me the wrong way.... but I remembered. Howard the Duck being 'stolen' from Marvel by Steve Gerber by replacing him with a clone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoDqGVo63C8

A lot of people treat this 'character heist' as some kind of brilliant scheme, but... to me it just comes off as petty and unprofessional. And in the end, it didn't actually accomplish much of anything, no one these days cares one way or the other if the character currently appearing might technically be a clone, and the 'real' one hasn't been seen in years and years, and will likely never appear again. Now, nothing against Gerber as a writer, he was very talented, but he was EXTREMELY difficult to work with, by all accounts, in part because of behaviour like this. He kept getting fired by Marvel because of blowing deadlines, poor behaviour, and would not accept editorial oversight. The reality is Marvel was actually pretty generous and forgiving with Gerber, but they did have their limits. They did fire him on a few occasions, but they kept giving him second chances, and then he betrayed them on one of these chances. He just could not accept that Howard was owned by Marvel, that at the end of the day, the character was created explicitly under Work for Hire conditions. Like it or not, Work For Hire is what allows Marvel's shared universe to exist at all. And it means that any writer working within it MUST accept that they only control a character for the duration of their time on a book, after that they are fair game. And with Loki, he wasn't even created by Ewing, it is just a particular character development that was done by Ewing. (I do think the publishers could offer better compensation for characters created for them, though)

I can sympathize with a creator, (or readers) being disappointed that stories after their run ended didn't go the way they were hoping, and I do suspect Ewing is in that boat. But when a character is owned by Marvel, they get to call the shots, period, and accepting that is part of the job. The character, or a particular direction, are not owned by any one particular writer. Subsequent writers/editors are absolutely not obligated to do what another writer would have wanted. They just aren't. It might be considered polite to do so, but it's not necessary. If you want that level of control, go to Image or something, and do creator owned. It's ok to be disappointed, but trying to sabotage future stories by puling something like 'haha, what you've been writing has actually been a clone!' for the sole purpose of keeping your take on a character 'pure' is just unprofessional, especially these days when work for hire is very clear cut. And Ewing has always been professional. I would not have been surprised if he had chosen to set his story in the past, and just kinda ignore what came afterwards, because he didn't agree with it. But now that he has chosen to use the present day characterization, I just can't picture him pulling a stunt like that, and would be disappointed if he did. He's too professional, and he has stated in interviews that one of his principles when writing something, is to not undo what previous writers established. But, in any case, Marvel does have final say, and editorial can veto stories, and I highly doubt they would allow some short story that's probably AT MOST 5 pages (more likely 2 pages, or even 1, like the Gillen story above.) to throw a wrench into Cates' plans. And that would be a BIG wrench.

We have to temper our expectations here. While this may tie into future plans, I doubt it will be essential reading, or shake things up in a massive way. It's more likely a few pages, and relatively inconsequential.

[Yoruno]

There's another post from Lee Garbett. The God of Stories again, now as Lady Loki.
Screenshot_20220309-093900_Chrome.jpg

[Raye]

Intersting, though guessing just a continuation of the same scene from before...

How you holding up, Yoruno? Just know most people don't blame the people, just the government. I hope this all comes to an end soon, though that is looking less likely every day. I hear Finland is really nice...

ok, we KINDA are getting a new solo series...

https://insidethemagic.net/2022/03/m...ator-loki-ct1/

Alligator Loki! I've got Marvel Unlimited anyway, so will be checking it out in a couple days, i guess. The Infinity comics are mostly fluff, but they are usually fun.

So, Thor. Loki was in it, but only tangentially. He was just with the family (minus Balder, oddly) after Thor was asleep/injured, so it may be that Thor has already had some all-sleep going on, since he was out for like 4 months. Which, admittedly, could explain some of the mis-matching with other books if Thor has been, essentially, set 4 months in the past relative to other books and is just now catching up. Still wonky in that regard, though. But though Loki, Freyja, and Angela all offered to help him, he is still shutting them out, and flatly refusing to accept help. Guessing the confrontation with Hulk may change that, he may be forced to accept help. I mean, we do know he gets help from Odin, but I mean from, you know.... living relatives.

As for Mjolnir, I felt it kinda wrapped up a bit too quickly, but I guess they had to cram the resolution in before the next issue. I was kinda on the right track there, but was not really expecting that it would be Angela that reforged the hammer. But yeah, it is no longer host to the Mother Storm, (but not exactly sure that the storm has been destroyed.... this struck me more as destroying it's prison) and is instead host to Odin's soul, and largely depowered.

Also, they had a different version of the cover for next issue, and where Odin once was, there is now Bill. So Marvel did actually do 2 versions of the cover to deceive us. Though if what they say here is correct, there is no body to burn for the pyre. but whatever.

[Yoruno]

I rather had an impression that they initially made a mistake with Odin on the cover, just like they had previously drawn Thor with Mjolnir although it was supposed to be gone.
It was nice to see Loki as part of family and I hope it's a good sign. Still I have no clue what will happen in this new Loki story. I have a feeling it might be a sort of a standalone, a bit like that Christmas Carol volume in WotR. I know, technically it wasn't a true standalone because it led directly to other meaningful events, but it was Loki's introspective in Thor's story, and I expect something similar this time. On the other hand, why should all Loki stories involve split personalities and doubles? To show his duality? This trick is already growing old.
As for the current situation... thank you for your concern, it's... it's something I really need now.
spoilers:

I guess I won't see your answer or read the new comics because they're planning to shut the Internet down tomorrow. You said people here shouldn't be blamed... oh yes, they should. Lots of them refuse to think critically, and I already see a lot of supporters of the regime. There are active protests, of course. They could have changed something if it was a democracy, but in fact it's absolute monarchy in the guise of democracy, so they just don't work. I'm almost ready to flee with no car, no money, no foreign passport, but, unfortunately, I have a family to support...

end of spoilers

[rpmaluki]

@Yoruno - spoilers:

I'm sorry to hear that. Please look after yourself and your family. When the opportunity to remove yourself and your loved ones from danger, don't hesitate to take it.

end of spoilers

[Yoruno]

I'm sorry to hear that.

Thanks.. spoilers:

Right now people in Ukraine are suffering more than we are. This war must be stopped - as well as those responsible for it.

end of spoilers
I looked at the Asgardian royal family again - they haven't been together for a while - and thought that Odin was probably the only one who was truly Asgardian. His children belong to different realms, even that baby whose name I can't remember now. Thor has always been the protector of Midgard and I'm not surprised it's hard for him to fill in the role of the Asgardian ruler.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

https://aiptcomics.com/2022/03/10/ew...beyond-1-june/

Loki joins the Defenders in June.

In another thread someone joked about him marrying Miss Sinister. I liked the idea of him having a political marriage with one of the sketchy mutants on the Quiet Council. Selene from the upcoming Immortal X-men feels like a good choice.

My headcanon for the movies was Loki was groomed by Odin to be the one who took care of state craft while Thor was the military leader. So political intrigue feels right up his alley. Although it would be better for a solo than a guest spot.

[Raye]

I am torn. Loki joinign the Defenders, great.... but I am disappointed that Ewing may actually, apparently, be undoing everything that's been done. Seriously, SO disappointed in him for that. I don't want things reset to the end of AoA. **** that. I am mad. seriously. I guess i hope it is as speculated before and that this is just an aspect separated from the main one, or he's time traveled from the past, and Cates keeps the (to me) real Loki going. But it still seems really petty.

I get that some people were invested in seeing the 'God of Stories' thing Ewing set up play out, but that was 6 years ago, things moved on, and I think people, including Ewing, need to just accept that. I think dredging it up now will only further divide the fanbase, between those who are still clinging to that, and those of us who have moved on, and become invested in the new direction. Even if they are kept as separate characters, or time travel, or whatever.

I rather had an impression that they initially made a mistake with Odin on the cover, just like they had previously drawn Thor with Mjolnir although it was supposed to be gone.
It was nice to see Loki as part of family and I hope it's a good sign. Still I have no clue what will happen in this new Loki story. I have a feeling it might be a sort of a standalone, a bit like that Christmas Carol volume in WotR. I know, technically it wasn't a true standalone because it led directly to other meaningful events, but it was Loki's introspective in Thor's story, and I expect something similar this time. On the other hand, why should all Loki stories involve split personalities and doubles? To show his duality? This trick is already growing old.

Yeah, it was nice to see the family unit mostly together for once, though that just made Balder's absence stranger, really. I get Tyr's absence right now, after what he pulled in Valkyries, but I'd have thought Balder would be there. Ignoring Angela for a second, it's actually been quite a while since we've seen Thor, Loki, and Freyja all together, I now realize after seeing that. I think way back in JiM? Maybe not even then. We've gotten Odin, once. But usually it's only either Thor OR Loki plus Freyja, and then they just talk about the other. But it was sad to see Thor shutting them out. He said himself, when they couldn't hear, that he was lost. He seems to not understand they could help him find his way, if he let them. That or he knows that, but thinks projecting strength takes priority over asking for help. We saw earlier in the run that this sort of behaviour is part of what drove a wedge between Odin and Freyja, and now Thor is repeating his father's mistakes. That Odin is now in the hammer likely won't help there.

And yeah, I think that sort of story works for Loki to an extent, because he has been on this journey of re-inventing himself, but it has diminishing returns. I don't want it to just be him having dialogues with conflicting aspects of himself forever. i am ready for him to move on. Just not in the way we are apparently getting. That's just regression.

As for the current situation... thank you for your concern, it's... it's something I really need now.
spoilers:

I guess I won't see your answer or read the new comics because they're planning to shut the Internet down tomorrow. You said people here shouldn't be blamed... oh yes, they should. Lots of them refuse to think critically, and I already see a lot of supporters of the regime. There are active protests, of course. They could have changed something if it was a democracy, but in fact it's absolute monarchy in the guise of democracy, so they just don't work. I'm almost ready to flee with no car, no money, no foreign passport, but, unfortunately, I have a family to support...

end of spoilers

spoilers:

I was actually kinda expecting to not see you again for quite a while, if at all. I hope things work out for you, stay safe. And if you can't say more, if you see this, i understand. I tried to be vague before, because I have seen there are consequences for speaking out, tho i guess that's more the media. And I know more than half in Russia, if you believe the polls, (which I am wary about) support the war. Putin's propaganda has a good grip over a lot of people, I know. I've seen that little shitstain of a gymnast with his stupid 'Z' stunt, and stuff. Hell, I have seen AMERICANS falling for it, there are some people putting the Z on their cars and stuff over here, prominent politicians and TV personalities like Tucker Carlson defending Putin, and there is even some idiot from Texas fighting for the Russians right now in Ukraine, because he believed the propaganda about Nazi drug addicts, which is mind boggling. And I have seen Russians doing horrible things on the battlefield, just one war crime after the next. I don't normally wish harm on people, but I hope the Canadian super-sniper (fun fact - Canada has the best snipers in the world, by a long shot. (hah!) we hold the world record for longest successful shot, over 3.5km. And he is one of the best of them. Get ready for White Death 2.0) puts a bullet in the head of people like that. But I have also seen the protests, youtubers who speak out, some who are leaving for Finland, Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Estonia... and soldiers who are captured, and surrendering because they are just kids, and didn't want to be there, and they were lied to. I saw one Russian soldier who tried to stop his unit from killing a family, and was shot by his own unit for his trouble. (he lived though, the woman he was rescuing saved him) And there's you. There's the girl I went to college with from Russia in a similar boat. There's good and bad. Is it more baddies than good guys? maybe, I don't know. But i don't want good people to suffer. But that there ARE people who aren't buying it, even if it is a minority, does mean Putin's losing his grip on the information front, which is why the internet will come down, I would guess. Wants people to get all information form channels he can control. He seems determined to bring Russia down with him, after this colossal mistake he made. I am on the side of Ukraine in a broad sense, they are the victims, and I hope they continue to kick the Russian army's ass. I do think they are suffering far more than anyone in Russia. I think the sanctions are necessary, and the best way to deal with this without starting nukes flying. But I wish there was a way to make them only affect the bad elements, but there just isn't. I don't want the iron curtain to come down again. My family hosted a couple girls from Belarus and Hungary for a summer in 1994. I was still a teenager then, so my knowledge of the USSR was kinda limited, and hearing what they had gone through in the leadup to it collapsing, and seeing them (especially the Belarusian) return home with their suitcases stuffed with toilet paper and canned food was eye opening for sure. (we also bought them new clothes, and some fun things, out of our own pocket, after they spent any money they had on necessities for their families) though it sounds like the curtain is already falling. I think Russians who want to leave should get refugee status as well. I wish i could do more, but Canada is a long way from all this.

end of spoilers

[Tofali]

Ewing said. “There’s no DEFENDERS without him. And of course, we had to go even bigger – so in this book, we’re going on a magical journey into the Mystery itself, mapping the Marvel Godhead and bringing back knowledge that ties into what has gone before, some seismic things to come… and if we’re lucky, maybe a little off-the-page magic to feed your hungry head. We’ve got an eclectic new crew of Defenders chosen for the task by the final spell of Stephen Strange – I’m saying what’s probably a final goodbye to a lot of stuff from the past ten years with this one, and for at least one character, this will be the last adventure. Hope you survive the psychedelic experience, pilgrim!”

Could he have meant Loki or Adam? I'm leaning on Loki thou because of Agent of Asgard.

[Raye]

could be. And if this is just him saying goodbye to Loki, or kind of bridging the gap between his run and Aaron's, via time travel shenanigans or something, then ok. I just... I've said this before in this thread, I don't like regression. Even if it is to a run/status quo that I enjoyed. I loved JiM, and AoA, but that doesn't mean I want stories told since those to be invalidated, to return to something like them. I don't want Kid Loki, or Agent Loki back. I think Loki has made a lot of good progress since the end of AoA, there have been good stories told with him since then. Even if it didn't happen in the way that was telegraphed by Ewing at the end of AoA, they're still cool stories. And the way Cates has set things up, Loki could be on the cusp of something really good for him. (although I am frustrated with how long it's taken to get there) I'd hate to see that invalidated and scuttled by something like this.

[Fanto.mx]

Defenders Loki is explicitly an alternate Loki. Sure seems like that's happening in the main universe, but it's an alternate Loki, which may answer some of our questions about what's going on in the Lee Garbett's teases from the supersize Thor.

It all kicks off when Doctor Strange sends a dire warning from beyond the grave! Blue Marvel, America Chavez, Taaia (the mother of Galactus), Tigra, and Loki (a variant of the God of Mischief who should be familiar to readers of Ewing’s LOKI: AGENT OF ASGARD series) will have assemble to defend reality itself! (emphasis mine)

I'm a little torn there. I don't like regression, either (Doom fan here. Quicksilver fan here. Nightcrawler fan here.). But I do like creators telling the stories they really want to tell. While it may be too late for Ewing to finish up what he wanted to do, this might be a semi-sneaky workaround that lets both Cates and Ewing do their own things for a little while. And it sure seems like maybe it won't last beyond the 5 issues of that Defenders series:

I’m saying what’s probably a final goodbye to a lot of stuff from the past ten years with this one, and for at least one character, this will be the last adventure. Hope you survive the psychedelic experience, pilgrim!

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Ewing tends to be more forward moving than regressive. So it's likely a "one lost hurrah" than tearing down Cates or Aaron's work.

[Raye]

They did say 'variant' in the article but it may also be not fully in on what's going on, or simplifying the situation, so... we'll see. I'm guessing time travel, to explain the odd gap when Loki 'died' at the end of AoA.

And I really do hope so. But, regardless of his intentions, I think it may just make things ugly and more divided. While I have mostly disengaged from the fandom on tumblr and twitter and whatnot, (I may post the odd rambling tumbler speculation post, kinda aggregating my thoughts from this thread, but I don't like, follow the fandom there) you can't help but come in contact with it sometimes, and it's very divided. This is simplifying things, but there's kinda 2 camps. One wanted things to go the way Ewing telegraphed at the end of AoA. That in itself is fine, not faulting someone for liking it. But some of those take it further still, and flatly reject and deride everything that came after, while they cling to the God of Stories ending, looking for signs that writers may be undoing everything that Aaron and others after Ewing have done... and there is another camp that's moved on, and are finding fun in the new stuff, some who may actually be relieved it didn't go the way Ewing clearly wanted it to go, because they didn't like it. I am definitely in the latter camp.... I mean i have my issues here and there, i wish things moved faster, mostly, but I don't think 'God of Stories' would fix those quibbles. Also, I frankly find God of Stories to be grating, it is not a development I liked, and that feeling grows with time, so I am glad it never stuck. I don't like the look, I don't like the personality, I don't like the erasure of Loki's memories, I don't like the powers... it just creates a general sense of annoyance in me. And like, whatever floats your boat, not faulting people for liking things I may not... and I realize i am speaking from the side that 'won'. But this isn't about preferences so much as it is that these sides have formed at all, and that one camp has been unable to just let it go. Being sad it didn't pan out is fine. But you can be sad things didn't go the way you hoped, while still finding things you enjoy in how they did end up going. (on that note, even this may disappoint those people, if it is a 5 issues and then done forever situation, when they wanted nothing less than the wholesale erasure of everything post-Ewing, and/or it turns out Ewing doesn't actually write Loki as they had built up in their heads these past 6 years) I worry this will just make that division situation worse. Now the ones who clung to that one issue from 6 years ago will feel justified in having done so, and it may lead to more inflammatory rhetoric on both sides, when the wants of both camps come into conflict. And with the confrontation aspect we can see in the Thor story, I worry that Ewing may take pot shots at the direction Loki went after AoA, and besides being petty, that would just add fuel to the fire for people who think everything after AoA has been terrible, and want all of that undone. I really hope he doesn't, but... it's not hard to see how it might go that way.

Basically... If this is NOT reverting things, and gives some fans who were sad things didn't go they way they wanted something to enjoy, and some closure, maybe bridge that gap between Ewing and Aaron... great. I'll give it a go, and hopefully find something to enjoy. It may not be for me, because I do find that characterization really annoying, but whatever. But with how divided the fanbase is on this particular thing, I think it will get ugly. It may also make the people who want Stories Loki or nothing dig their heels in, and be even more unable/unwilling to enjoy Loki as a character going forward, which i find sad, frankly.

and yes, I do get that things did also get reverted somewhat after AoA, which is part of where the divide comes from. But I don't think that was so much a reversion, as it was going in a direction other than the one telegraphed. Loki didn't actually behave like Agent Loki, he was more depressed, more fatalistic, etc. And the 'stories' stuff was mentioned after that, just in a way where it was clear it hadn't worked, which contributed to the depression and fatalistic attitude, so that ending did still contribute... just not in the way some hoped. And there was a time jump where we were left to kinda fill in the blanks, about how it fell apart. Also, we are talking like 1 or two issues being kinda walked back, vs 6 years of comics. the longer this goes on, the more of a reversion bringing back God of Stories Loki would be.

ANYWAY! Alligator Loki came out and... as I was expecting, is fluff. It's kinda like the Jeff comic, in that it is totally dialogue free, and just aims to be cute. What IS surprising though, is that it takes place in the main universe, or something that closely resembles it, if Asgard had an amusement park:



Got Loki and Thor in their current costumes, Jane and Runa show up... I mean I was just expecting something more MCU like but nope.

So basically, Loki stole Thor's helmet for some unexplained reason, and Thor is chasing him, then Loki goes through a portal, and out pops Alligator Loki. Thor is THRILLED with this development, and promptly turns him into a pet, and decides to take him to the 10 realms themed amusement park that Asgard apparently has, they go on rides, Thor gets Alligator Loki a toy Mjolnir which he loves, the end.



So yeah, cute but... not exactly contributing a lot to the lore. And no, we never do find out where not-Alligator Loki went. Maybe next issue... if there is one?

[Raye]

Young Avengers reunion coming in the Pride issue: https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...hero-spotlight



and it is Loki with the Jotunheim crown, so that is a mark in favour of Defenders being a separate variant