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  1. #61
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsan52 View Post
    They should make Witter a mutant with Psychic powers who gained the extra Spider Powers.
    I don't think Marvel is really gonna make mutants be outside of X-Men that much.

    I mean Slott decided to make Franklin, a long established mutant, to not be a mutant, and before that we have Wanda and Pietro, who debutted as mutants, into not being mutants too.

    While I can somewhat understand the Wanda/Pietro one, since that one happened because of movie rights and Marvel wanted to sever the connection Wanda and Pietro had with the X-Men (Which was just petty considering they could be used in MCU just fine), Franklin one is just odd since, by the point that retcon was made, Disney already bought X-Men and F4 from Fox, and even if they didn't, it's not like removing the small connection Franklin has with X-Men made any difference with the movie rights anyways since Fox had the movie rights for both X-Men and F4.

    So yeah, maybe there's an editorial thing going on to remove mutants from non X-Men franchises still, or maybe that was Slott doing the retcon just because, who knows... But I still expect that even if Charlotte is ever used again somewhat extensively, I doubt they'll say she's a mutant.

    Hell, I won't be surprised if they quietly drop that Spider-Queen is a mutant too, well, if she resurrects again, which she might considering how much Marvel loves events, and she's made for events considering how busted she is lol.

    I’d like to see her face Jessica again and perhaps get healed from Doc Ock’s damage to her psyche.
    Same issue that reveals the abuse, also has her talking that she likes being evil, and later issues have her continuing being evil and liking it.

    Thinking of it, Madame Web could try to use her telepathy to heal something in her mind lol.

    But either way, if her mind is healed, man, I would just hope that means it changes the type of villain she is, 'cause there's too fucking many Spider-Women around, Charlotte being a villain is the better alternative for her, instead of being another-nother Spider-Woman who's good lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    I guess it's only natural to see her return since Spider-Woman needs all the major villains she can get!
    Give Jessica Carnage and Morbius as part of Jessica's rogues. Also, Marvel SHOULD have Jessica become a reoccurring guest in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man. It would raise Jessica's profile if she and Peter work together in the pages of Spider-Man. Mister Negative and Hammer Head, Doc Ock and Mysterio would make for a part of Jessica's rogues as well...
    Last edited by Darthfury78; 01-21-2022 at 12:44 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Give Jessica Carnage and Morbius as part of Jessica's rogues. Also, Marvel SHOULD have Jessica become a reoccurring guest in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man. It would raise Jessica's profile if she and Peter work together in the pages of Spider-Man. Mister Negative and Hammer Head, Doc Ock and Mysterio would make for a part of Jessica's rogues as well...
    Not a bad idea. I think integrating her more into the Spider-family could help

  4. #64
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Give Jessica Carnage and Morbius as part of Jessica's rogues. Also, Marvel SHOULD have Jessica become a reoccurring guest in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man. It would raise Jessica's profile if she and Peter work together in the pages of Spider-Man. Mister Negative and Hammer Head, Doc Ock and Mysterio would make for a part of Jessica's rogues as well...
    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    Not a bad idea. I think integrating her more into the Spider-family could help


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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post


    .

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Thinking of it, would also be interesting if she learns about the Kree/Skrull war ending, and what she has to say about it.
    Yeah... and stuff like Dorrek..... could be interesting to see how that would play out. Like has Veranke even MET Paibok(he wasn't in Secret Invasion)? What does she think of Lyja's affiliation with the F4? Does she want to kill Hulkling?
    Sure, her accepting Fisk's help to benefit herself later on makes sense, it's just weird she talks like she's gonna enjoy tormenting Jessica in particular, even when she's talking to herself.

    Also, Veranke herself points out she could just disappear and Fisk would never find her, and she's probably right, so that makes it look pretty bizarre and Fisk is letting a shape shifter potentially disappear, 'cause even if he's right about Veranke wanting revenge on Jessica, he's gotta ask "And then what?", 'cause if she succeeds like he wants her to, she can do whatever she wants, so yeah, it's bizarre Fisk is being this careless, unless he has a way to track her of course, or at least identify her.
    Fisk presumably has a plan... but not much experience with Skrulls. He knows what Skrulls are, but how much does he know about how to negotiate with them? hmm... not sure.
    Could be even more fun if he remembers he has more gadgets than just the pumpkin bombs.

    Though right now he ain't a Goblin, so even if Super-Skrull shows up on Earth to find Veranke, and learns Norman had her imprisoned, Norman has to become GG before that can happen.
    Yeah... maybe eventually.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    I don't think Marvel is really gonna make mutants be outside of X-Men that much.

    I mean Slott decided to make Franklin, a long established mutant, to not be a mutant, and before that we have Wanda and Pietro, who debutted as mutants, into not being mutants too.

    While I can somewhat understand the Wanda/Pietro one, since that one happened because of movie rights and Marvel wanted to sever the connection Wanda and Pietro had with the X-Men (Which was just petty considering they could be used in MCU just fine), Franklin one is just odd since, by the point that retcon was made, Disney already bought X-Men and F4 from Fox, and even if they didn't, it's not like removing the small connection Franklin has with X-Men made any difference with the movie rights anyways since Fox had the movie rights for both X-Men and F4.
    It used to be(before the MCU ----) that Mutant was just a character origin. I mean, Shanna the She-Devil of all people has a PAIR of mutants in her rogues gallery: Nekra Sinclair and Jerome Beachman. Sure you can call it "lazy writing" but... it's such an old part of the fictional setting..... No really... Nekra debuted in 1973, almost 50 years ago.

  7. #67
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Thinking of it, would also be interesting if she learns about the Kree/Skrull war ending, and what she has to say about it.



    Sure, her accepting Fisk's help to benefit herself later on makes sense, it's just weird she talks like she's gonna enjoy tormenting Jessica in particular, even when she's talking to herself.

    Also, Veranke herself points out she could just disappear and Fisk would never find her, and she's probably right, so that makes it look pretty bizarre and Fisk is letting a shape shifter potentially disappear, 'cause even if he's right about Veranke wanting revenge on Jessica, he's gotta ask "And then what?", 'cause if she succeeds like he wants her to, she can do whatever she wants, so yeah, it's bizarre Fisk is being this careless, unless he has a way to track her of course, or at least identify her.



    Could be even more fun if he remembers he has more gadgets than just the pumpkin bombs.

    Though right now he ain't a Goblin, so even if Super-Skrull shows up on Earth to find Veranke, and learns Norman had her imprisoned, Norman has to become GG before that can happen.



    They are shocking and outrageous, it's just that it doesn't mean that's a good thing, something hack writers fail to realize.



    Here:







    You really didn't miss much, the context of the story only has villains going after stupid people who decided to pretend they're Spider-Woman for the memes I guess, and Charlotte herself suddenly shows up at the end, and she sees herself as the only Spider-Woman (Nevermind that Charlotte dropped that nonsense after her first appearances), and then she and Jessica fight briefly, and Charlotte escapes.

    The pages I sent basically show everything there is to see about the fight, 'cause again, Charlotte only suddenly shows up in the end, and the only extra detail from a previous page is someone saying "Some other Spider-Woman with extra spider-legs is attacking people" and Jessica can tell it's Charlotte and leaves right away, so yeah, that's all Charlotte does here lol.

    It's honestly kinda sad that Charlotte sucks, while there's nothing new about making an evil version of a specific type of character, her being a parasite that can steal others powers (Even if it's silly it's only limited to Spider-Women) is a cool idea, and she's Cassandra's granddaughter, and it's mentioned a few times she has some of Cassandra's telepathy (I think it's mentioned that's how she can steal the powers), but, she only got defeated in lame ways, and the only thing we know about her character besides being a villain is that she's a fashion designer, and her costume tells us she was terrible at her job.

    Otto also gave her her powers, which's, the ASM explanation is completely baffling, since he managed to give someone powers just like that, because he never did make something that powerful before or after this, and that's all the explanation we get when he reveals he's the one who gave her powers in ASM, though at least that was somewhat handwaved in Spider-Woman#2 vol 3 when he says that he detected Charlotte's latent psychic powers, but the only power that is specifically part of those are those spider-legs, but again, I think her stealing power comes from the psychic powers too.



    That could work, and maybe be done in an intentionally bizarre logic for comedy, like the Mad Stan from Batman Beyond:

    Ha, yes. Good one. "There's only one sane solution! BLOW IT ALL UP!" Funny enough, he's voiced by a real-life anarchist, though definitely not the "stereotypical" kind of anarchist.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmiComic View Post
    The real life villains are edgelord caricatures now, though
    Yeah, true, sadly.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #68
    Jewish & Proud Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    I’ll be on the comic-watch podcast on Facebook tonight at 8:30 est. the topic is Spider-Man, but we’ll also be talking about Spider-woman, Black Cat, and other female leads.

  9. #69
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    I’ll be on the comic-watch podcast on Facebook tonight at 8:30 est. the topic is Spider-Man, but we’ll also be talking about Spider-woman, Black Cat, and other female leads.
    Thanks for the heads-up there.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  10. #70
    Jewish & Proud Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Thanks for the heads-up there.
    Ugh. I wasn’t able to talk about Cat, but I schooled them on Jessica!

  11. #71
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Yeah... and stuff like Dorrek..... could be interesting to see how that would play out. Like has Veranke even MET Paibok(he wasn't in Secret Invasion)? What does she think of Lyja's affiliation with the F4? Does she want to kill Hulkling?
    Hulkling, it'd depend on Veranke's own opinions about the Skrull/Kree war, which, I'm not really sure if she talked much about this since what I saw of her character mostly focused on the invasion on Earth.

    Paibok only shows up in a flashback in Secret Invasion, and it's about the time Lyja herself invaded Earth:



    Outside of this one panel, he's not a presence anywhere in SI, so I dunno what Veranke could think of him.

    Lyja, Veranke was okay with her, even thought Lyja would want to get rid of Johnny in particular:



    Veranke is probably gonna hate her if she learned that Lyja decided to help F4 though.

    Fisk presumably has a plan... but not much experience with Skrulls. He knows what Skrulls are, but how much does he know about how to negotiate with them? hmm... not sure.
    Does Fisk even have experience with non-humans in general? The way he negotiated with Veranke had him just sending her to go torment Jessica, and unless the next issues reveal some trump card, it's really weird for him to do just that with anyone super-powered, much less someone like Veranke, who on top of being a shape shifter, may still have Jessica's powers.

    It used to be(before the MCU ----) that Mutant was just a character origin. I mean, Shanna the She-Devil of all people has a PAIR of mutants in her rogues gallery: Nekra Sinclair and Jerome Beachman. Sure you can call it "lazy writing" but... it's such an old part of the fictional setting..... No really... Nekra debuted in 1973, almost 50 years ago.
    And now Marvel avoids making characters outside of the X-Men franchise be mutants, that's honestly boring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Ha, yes. Good one. "There's only one sane solution! BLOW IT ALL UP!" Funny enough, he's voiced by a real-life anarchist, though definitely not the "stereotypical" kind of anarchist.
    Hopefully he doesn't have too much in common with the character he voiced, being a terrorist and all .
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  12. #72
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Hulkling, it'd depend on Veranke's own opinions about the Skrull/Kree war, which, I'm not really sure if she talked much about this since what I saw of her character mostly focused on the invasion on Earth.
    Yeah, But we know that Veranke knows that Dorrek 8/Hulkling exists though. It's part of the Secret Invasion: Skrulls! info book. The Skrull guy who compiled the info for Veranke referred to Anelle(Hulkling's mother) as a traitor(for siding with the Kree). Then later notes that while Hulkling is a bastard son of a trator.... he's still a Dorrek, and has hereditary claim to the throne. Not that he has any intent to exercise that claim.... yet.
    Paibok only shows up in a flashback in Secret Invasion, and it's about the time Lyja herself invaded Earth:

    Outside of this one panel, he's not a presence anywhere in SI, so I dunno what Veranke could think of him.
    Yeah, he's mentioned in the Skrulls! book as missing in deep space at the time of Secret Invasion. The guy writing the briefing mentions his list of failures... but also that he was a powerful warrior who disappeared trying to stop the Annihilation Wave.
    Lyja, Veranke was okay with her, even thought Lyja would want to get rid of Johnny in particular:

    Veranke is probably gonna hate her if she learned that Lyja decided to help F4 though.
    Well.. in the Skrulls! book Lyja is mentioned as being one of the best infiltration agents the Skrulls have ever sent to Earth, and one whose knowledge of the Fantastic Four is greater than almost any other Skrull.... but her loyalty is a bit questionable. Which yeah... is exactly what happened in SI... Lyja replaces Sue... manages to trick Johnny into not noticing his own sister was replaced for a little while at least.... then decides she'd rather help him than fight him. Why? Well... Johnny may act vapid but even he isn't dumb enough to think he could get a woman(Skrull or otherwise) pregnant by kissing her. So we know just how.... deep their relationship actually was.
    Does Fisk even have experience with non-humans in general? The way he negotiated with Veranke had him just sending her to go torment Jessica, and unless the next issues reveal some trump card, it's really weird for him to do just that with anyone super-powered, much less someone like Veranke, who on top of being a shape shifter, may still have Jessica's powers.
    Yeah, if Veranke is still super, her powers might be greater than Jessica's actually. One note is that, while impersonating Jessica, Veranke did a few things that people didn't think Jessica could do. Creative power use or indication that Veranke actually had multiple power-sets(like most Super-Skrulls)? Hmmm I have to wonder.... maybe Fisk had a different idea? If Fisk thinks Veranke is a full-on Super-Skrull, maybe he decided he didn't have the physical ability to force her to do what he wanted? I dunno, we'll see... or maybe the writer jsut hand-waved it... :/
    And now Marvel avoids making characters outside of the X-Men franchise be mutants, that's honestly boring.
    Agreed. It makes the fictional setting less interesting in general. :/
    Last edited by marhawkman; 01-27-2022 at 01:44 AM.

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    Well.. in the Skrulls! book Lyja is mentioned as being one of the best infiltration agents the Skrulls have ever sent to Earth, and one whose knowledge of the Fantastic Four is greater than almost any other Skrull.... but her loyalty is a bit questionable. Which yeah... is exactly what happened in SI... Lyja replaces Sue... manages to trick Johnny into not noticing his own sister was replaced for a little while at least.... then decides she'd rather help him than fight him. Why? Well... Johnny may act vapid but even he isn't dumb enough to think he could get a woman(Skrull or otherwise) pregnant by kissing her. So we know just how.... deep their relationship actually was.
    The whole relationship was weird 'cause of that dumb retcon, since Johnny loved her while thinking she was someone else, it's, seriously questionable to put it very lightly lol.

    Yeah, if Veranke is still super, her powers might be greater than Jessica's actually. One note is that, while impersonating Jessica, Veranke did a few things that people didn't think Jessica could do. Creative power use or indication that Veranke actually had multiple power-sets(like most Super-Skrulls)? Hmmm I have to wonder....
    New Avengers#14 has her saying that she got her powers back "and then some", and explicitly says that she now can fly, not just glide:



    So yeah, either this means that Jessica's own powers were restored in a way she's even stronger now, and Veranke is copying those stronger powers, or that Veranke has Jessica's powers and a few extra ones, it's hard for me to say what was the intention at the time (Haven't checked Bendis' Avengers too much, checked basically nothing post Secret Invasion), but considering that Jessica explicitly can't fly now, it can be interpreted that Veranke has Jessica's powers and extra ones now.

    It'd be interesting if Veranke still has those powers, 'cause having Jessica deal with someone who shares the same powers as her, and some extra ones, well, let's just say that flight alone could be annoying to deal with lol.

    maybe Fisk had a different idea? If Fisk thinks Veranke is a full-on Super-Skrull, maybe he decided he didn't have the physical ability to force her to do what he wanted? I dunno, we'll see... or maybe the writer jsut hand-waved it... :/
    I mean, the moment Fisk let her go, with seemingly no way to track her down, he already doesn't have the physical ability to do anything to her, even more so if Veranke still has Jessica's powers.

    But yeah, wait and see, but I doubt Fisk will be that much of a presence, seems he was used as an excuse to bring Veranke back, though, at least it wasn't done too awkwardly, even if we have to ignore how Veranke was 100% dead lol.

    Agreed. It makes the fictional setting less interesting in general. :/
    And less connected, and while making the setting too connected can be bad, something like X-gene is just a random way for characters to have powers, and if anything it's far easier to use it compared to coming up with a stupid story about how someone got powers, so non X-Men parts not using X-gene as much to the point characters may even be retconned into not having it anymore, is pretty meh.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  14. #74
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    Hulkling, it'd depend on Veranke's own opinions about the Skrull/Kree war, which, I'm not really sure if she talked much about this since what I saw of her character mostly focused on the invasion on Earth.

    Paibok only shows up in a flashback in Secret Invasion, and it's about the time Lyja herself invaded Earth:



    Outside of this one panel, he's not a presence anywhere in SI, so I dunno what Veranke could think of him.

    Lyja, Veranke was okay with her, even thought Lyja would want to get rid of Johnny in particular:



    Veranke is probably gonna hate her if she learned that Lyja decided to help F4 though.



    Does Fisk even have experience with non-humans in general? The way he negotiated with Veranke had him just sending her to go torment Jessica, and unless the next issues reveal some trump card, it's really weird for him to do just that with anyone super-powered, much less someone like Veranke, who on top of being a shape shifter, may still have Jessica's powers.



    And now Marvel avoids making characters outside of the X-Men franchise be mutants, that's honestly boring.



    Hopefully he doesn't have too much in common with the character he voiced, being a terrorist and all .
    He's a rock musician, if I recall right.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #75
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukmendes View Post
    The whole relationship was weird 'cause of that dumb retcon, since Johnny loved her while thinking she was someone else, it's, seriously questionable to put it very lightly lol.
    That story was weird on several levels. #1 is why would Alicia even think about romance with Johnny? Retconning that it was really Lyja actually made sense.
    New Avengers#14 has her saying that she got her powers back "and then some", and explicitly says that she now can fly, not just glide:

    So yeah, either this means that Jessica's own powers were restored in a way she's even stronger now, and Veranke is copying those stronger powers, or that Veranke has Jessica's powers and a few extra ones, it's hard for me to say what was the intention at the time (Haven't checked Bendis' Avengers too much, checked basically nothing post Secret Invasion), but considering that Jessica explicitly can't fly now, it can be interpreted that Veranke has Jessica's powers and extra ones now.

    It'd be interesting if Veranke still has those powers, 'cause having Jessica deal with someone who shares the same powers as her, and some extra ones, well, let's just say that flight alone could be annoying to deal with lol.
    If I was to write it, I'd probably not have Veranke start a fight with anyone. The visual of Veranke just... sitting down to drink a coffee with Jessica amuses me greatly.

    There's a lot of people on Earth she has reason to want to... catch up with. But a fight to the death? nah, well, except for Dorrek 8/Teddy Altman, but that's not even a personal animosity. Teddy as Skrull Emperor? well.. I mean... Veranke was Empress for years and if she wants the throne back it'll probably mean killing him. Also, pretty sure Veranke would take exception to the fact he decided to call himself "Dorrek-Vell".

    Especially Jazinda!!! One reveal in SI is that Veranke was the reason Jazinda got exiled to Earth. Yeah, the magic gem that gives Jazinda regeneration powers is something that Veranke had sent her to steal from the Kree. And this is why Kl'rt decided to abandon Veranke's mission of conquest. Sooo THAT is something Veranke might have reason to feel like talking about. If she even talks to Jazinda that is. Oh wait... apparently Jessica is who arrested Jazinda for purposes of deporting her? Hmm.....

    Paibok has actually been doing quite a LOT on Earth as of late since he's been working with S.W.O.R.D. as the Skrull liaison.
    I mean, the moment Fisk let her go, with seemingly no way to track her down, he already doesn't have the physical ability to do anything to her, even more so if Veranke still has Jessica's powers.
    Hmmm this is the weird bit. 'cause in Secret Invasion there was a scene where Veranke used a "Venom" discharge that somehow created an explosion, and this was pointed out in-universe as "inconsistent" with Jessica's powers. It was obvious foreshadowing that Jess had been replaced, but even then... does Veranke still have that ability? Also... how did she do it the first time? 'see.. the funny thing is how many of the super-Skrulls in SI only had ONE power set? Most had several. R'lnnd for example had Cyclops+Wolverine+Nightcrawler+Colossus... Hmm.....
    But yeah, wait and see, but I doubt Fisk will be that much of a presence, seems he was used as an excuse to bring Veranke back, though, at least it wasn't done too awkwardly, even if we have to ignore how Veranke was 100% dead lol.
    One could go the angle of Fisk hoping to make friends with Skrulls as a way to get off-world tech. Someone like Veranke would get POed really badly if Fisk tried the hard sell approach.
    And less connected, and while making the setting too connected can be bad, something like X-gene is just a random way for characters to have powers, and if anything it's far easier to use it compared to coming up with a stupid story about how someone got powers, so non X-Men parts not using X-gene as much to the point characters may even be retconned into not having it anymore, is pretty meh.
    Yeah, rally. :/

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