Spider-Woman (Jessica-Drew) Appreciation 2022

[danielsan52]

Ugh. The last thing I want is for Carol and Jessica’s friendship to be ruined by having them become a couple. Is Carol even bi? Neither have dated anyone of the same sex. Jessica has been into men since her first appearance and her and Lindsay should just be friends.

Bring Roger back. Bring Sybil back with a mutant GF.

[Chris0013]

Ugh. The last thing I want is for Carol and Jessica’s friendship to be ruined by having them become a couple. Is Carol even bi? Neither have dated anyone of the same sex. Jessica has been into men since her first appearance and her and Lindsay should just be friends.

Bring Roger back. Bring Sybil back with a mutant GF.

I agree...but Iceman was never shown to be into guys...but they went there.

I also agree about Roger...there was some real depth into real world broken/blended family issues that could have been explored. Roger and his ex Olivia and how they relate to each other. How Roger's daughter Kalie and Gerry would relate to each other. How Jess and Olivia would.

[kcekada]

I think they went there with Iceman because there were a lot of fans suggesting that he may be gay. I would have preferred they made him bisexual, but you know -- representation. I didn't like when they started writing him as having all of these new gay traits. And it's even worse when fans want to pair him with other X-Men who are hetero.

Both Carol and Jessica have enough personal baggage without changing their sexuality. If either one was going to experiment -- it would have been a long time ago -- as both have had some very bad relationships with men.

[Digifiend]

Bobby should have been bi, him being just gay means all of his female love interests were just shams. Though there was a subtle clue in the first issue of X-Men way back in 1963 - he was the only one who didn't fancy Jean when they first met her. Even Xavier admitted he wanted her, lamenting that he couldn't because of her age and their student-teacher relationship.

[kcekada]

Bobby should have been bi, him being just gay means all of his female love interests were just shams. Though there was a subtle clue in the first issue of X-Men way back in 1963 - he was the only one who didn't fancy Jean when they first met her. Even Xavier admitted he wanted her, lamenting that he couldn't because of her age and their student-teacher relationship.

Right. It casts Bobby in a bad light. I being gay was worse than being a mutant in the Marvel Universe --- because he was out as a mutant. His outing was poorly handled, and from what I've read of his solo -- his characterization was completely overhauled.

[Dermie]

Not to derail the SPIDER-WOMAN thread into an Iceman discussion, but I think saying Bobby being gay makes his previous relationships "shams" is overstating it. While it is true that some closeted people do engage in sham relationships to hide the truth, there are also those who have honestly not figured the truth out yet, and do honestly love the person they are with at some level....they just haven't figured out yet that they aren't truly IN love with them. We have seen both before and after his coming out that Bobby does honestly care about the women he was involved with. The relationships weren't shams....they were just doomed to failure since Bobby was not yet ready to be fully honest with himself.

Getting back to Jessica Drew, although its true that she has never been explicitly implied to be bisexual, there has been a queer element involved with the character all the way back to her original series. When Lindsay McCabe was first introduced it was implied that she might be gay or bi since she did not react to Jessica's pheromones the way other women did. The other example in the series at that point of someone not reacting to the pheromones the way most people do was an implied gay male. Then there's also Gypsy Moth, who was later explicitly confirmed as bisexual.

Given that Claremont wrote the original SPIDER-WOMAN series for a while, its actually surprising there wasn't more bisexual subtext in that run -- he certainly wasn't shy about layering it into a number of characters in his X-books.

Karla Pacheco's run did have a notable moment in that regard though. Jessica was surprised that Rose Roche's pheromone powers worked on her, since Jessica's were never able to affect women that way. Rebecca suggested that the fact that Rose is so hot might have been a factor in that, and Jessica changed the subject. Its hardly conclusive--but it did at least raise the possibility on-panel of Jessica possibly being attracted to a woman.

I really don't think Jessica/Carol is a good idea though. I understand why they are such a popular 'ship, but I just don't see them as romantic--and while I can easily see Jessica Drew as bisexual, I have a harder time seeing it with Carol. A Jessica/Lindsay pairing, on the other hand, would feel like a natural fit to me--and I would not be surprised if Pacheco had been planning to go there if the series hadn't been cancelled first.

[krazijoe]

Ugh. The last thing I want is for Carol and Jessica’s friendship to be ruined by having them become a couple. Is Carol even bi? Neither have dated anyone of the same sex. Jessica has been into men since her first appearance and her and Lindsay should just be friends.

Bring Roger back. Bring Sybil back with a mutant GF.

Is a guy writing it? Aren't all women Bi in a mans mind?

[Huntsman Spider]

Not to derail the SPIDER-WOMAN thread into an Iceman discussion, but I think saying Bobby being gay makes his previous relationships "shams" is overstating it. While it is true that some closeted people do engage in sham relationships to hide the truth, there are also those who have honestly not figured the truth out yet, and do honestly love the person they are with at some level....they just haven't figured out yet that they aren't truly IN love with them. We have seen both before and after his coming out that Bobby does honestly care about the women he was involved with. The relationships weren't shams....they were just doomed to failure since Bobby was not yet ready to be fully honest with himself.

Getting back to Jessica Drew, although its true that she has never been explicitly implied to be bisexual, there has been a queer element involved with the character all the way back to her original series. When Lindsay McCabe was first introduced it was implied that she might be gay or bi since she did not react to Jessica's pheromones the way other women did. The other example in the series at that point of someone not reacting to the pheromones the way most people do was an implied gay male. Then there's also Gypsy Moth, who was later explicitly confirmed as bisexual.

Given that Claremont wrote the original SPIDER-WOMAN series for a while, its actually surprising there wasn't more bisexual subtext in that run -- he certainly wasn't shy about layering it into a number of characters in his X-books.

Karla Pacheco's run did have a notable moment in that regard though. Jessica was surprised that Rose Roche's pheromone powers worked on her, since Jessica's were never able to affect women that way. Rebecca suggested that the fact that Rose is so hot might have been a factor in that, and Jessica changed the subject. Its hardly conclusive--but it did at least raise the possibility on-panel of Jessica possibly being attracted to a woman.

I really don't think Jessica/Carol is a good idea though. I understand why they are such a popular 'ship, but I just don't see them as romantic--and while I can easily see Jessica Drew as bisexual, I have a harder time seeing it with Carol. A Jessica/Lindsay pairing, on the other hand, would feel like a natural fit to me--and I would not be surprised if Pacheco had been planning to go there if the series hadn't been cancelled first.

Those are fair points you raise, both concerning Iceman and the nature of the relationship between Jessica Drew and Carol Danvers. That said, even if they both were at least bi, there is such a thing as "queer-platonic relationships," wherein just because two people are of a compatible orientation, that doesn't automatically make them romantically or sexually attracted to each other. Might be the best path to take with Jess and Carol, if Marvel were to let a writer go there.

[Matternativ]

Is a guy writing it? Aren't all women Bi in a mans mind?

You'd be surprised by how many guys are actively hostile to the mere idea. Usually those that cry over "woke", "soy" and whatever other buzzword you can come up with.

As for Jess: I personally always got some bi vibes from her but I don't see them in every comic book character. One of them is Laura Kinney so clearly the combination of green eyes and black hair make you bi now, I don't make the rules.
Jk

I'll say I'm increasingly of the opinion that characters as long lasting and constantly evolving as superhero comic book characters should just be Bi by default, including the guys of course.
Not to the point where everyone is bi but to the point where gay or straight characters are the exception.
Just expands the possibilities for new authors without really contradicting anything that may have happened before.
But that's another topic.

[Lukmendes]

Is a guy writing it? Aren't all women Bi in a mans mind?

Of course not.

Those are fair points you raise, both concerning Iceman and the nature of the relationship between Jessica Drew and Carol Danvers. That said, even if they both were at least bi, there is such a thing as "queer-platonic relationships," wherein just because two people are of a compatible orientation, that doesn't automatically make them romantically or sexually attracted to each other. Might be the best path to take with Jess and Carol, if Marvel were to let a writer go there.

Yeah, ultimately two people being of the sex the other is into doesn't mean they'll get into a relationship, LGBT are really not different from straights in that regard.

[Darthfury78]

I think they went there with Iceman because there were a lot of fans suggesting that he may be gay. I would have preferred they made him bisexual, but you know -- representation. I didn't like when they started writing him as having all of these new gay traits. And it's even worse when fans want to pair him with other X-Men who are hetero.

Both Carol and Jessica have enough personal baggage without changing their sexuality. If either one was going to experiment -- it would have been a long time ago -- as both have had some very bad relationships with men.

Not with Peter Parker. So much potential stories with either Jessica of Carol respectively with Parker....

[Darthfury78]

While I’m for it, their friendship might be the most organic, and heartfelt friendship currently being portrayed in modern Marvel. That said, Kelly’s chemistry between the two is far more…well written than Carol/Rhodey.

Too bad KSD chose not to renew her contract extension with Captain Marvel in 2015.

[Chris0013]

Spider-Man #1 today....really? I mean freaking really?!?!?

[Kurolegacy]

Spider-Man #1 today....really? I mean freaking really?!?!?

Let’s be real, it’ll never stick.

[Chris0013]

Let’s be real, it’ll never stick.

Which makes it even more annoying.