Wonder Woman Rogues Gallery Appreciation 2022

[Alpha]

To me the biggest issue with Ares as portrayed is that he's like a 8 year old boy. He does war because war is cool. Because it's fun. He just embodies a vision of the world where war exists because men like to fight. Is it true? I mean, yeah that also happens. Not very insightful though is it? And if the entire philosophical counter argument Diana has to that is "war isn't cool because it hurts people" then she's not even arguing under the same wavelength as that version of Ares.

Rucka's rebirth version of Ares sort of follows that in a fairly entertaining way with "8 year old boy loves war because it's cool, makes a tantrum and then feels sorry for being so impulsive" and I enjoyed it as a story, but again, not very insightful.

And yes I get it, you guys like this stuff. But couldn't there be a more vivid take on Ares?

What if Ares' philosophy was more the gangster mentality of Dog-eat-Dog. What if he was like Avon Barksdale from The Wire. The vicious cycle of his mentality. He thinks the world is out to get him, and he won't let them catch him, so he's going to attack them before they get the chance to attack him. The contagious survivalist desire. This is something Diana can understand, and totally disagree with. This is something that is pretty damn hard to deny once you experience it. To me it's what would make the God of War more than just a infantilized take on war.

[Mel Dyer]

To me the biggest issue with Ares as portrayed is that he's like a 8 year old boy. He does war because war is cool. Because it's fun. He just embodies a vision of the world where war exists because men like to fight. Is it true? I mean, yeah that also happens. Not very insightful though is it? And if the entire philosophical counter argument Diana has to that is "war isn't cool because it hurts people" then she's not even arguing under the same wavelength as that version of Ares.

Rucka's rebirth version of Ares sort of follows that in a fairly entertaining way with "8 year old boy loves war because it's cool, makes a tantrum and then feels sorry for being so impulsive" and I enjoyed it as a story, but again, not very insightful.

And yes I get it, you guys like this stuff. But couldn't there be a more vivid take on Ares?

What if Ares' philosophy was more the gangster mentality of Dog-eat-Dog. What if he was like Avon Barksdale from The Wire. The vicious cycle of his mentality. He thinks the world is out to get him, and he won't let them catch him, so he's going to attack them before they get the chance to attack him. The contagious survivalist desire. This is something Diana can understand, and totally disagree with. This is something that is pretty damn hard to deny once you experience it. To me it's what would make the God of War more than just a infantilized take on war.

What you're talking about reminds me of Bill Loebs's 'Ares Buchanan' arc, in which Ares mounts a Greek and Irish American gangster
back when the WW comic was set in Boston. I think it grounded the character enough to makw his villainous ambitions, a little more relatable - the threat of him to WW, more immediate. I thought it was a clever take on Ares, at the time...sorry to see nothing was ever made of it after Bill left the comic.

Good post, Alpha. I'm so exhausted right now,...wish I could write more.

[Dr. Poison]

E2 Cheetah...SMART

That was a pretty crafty plot by E2 Cheetah. She really should get more credit. What book is this from?

[Alpha]

What you're talking about reminds me of Bill Loebs's 'Ares Buchanan' arc, in which Ares mounts a Greek and Irish American gangster
back when the WW comic was set in Boston. I think it grounded the character enough to makw his villainous ambitions, a little more relatable - the threat of him to WW, more immediate. I thought it was a clever take on Ares, at the time...sorry to see nothing was ever made of it after Bill left the comic.

Good post, Alpha. I'm so exhausted right now,...wish I could write more.

Sure, but to be clear, I wouldn't actually want him to be a gangster, i'm just talking about his philosophy

[Access]

Sure, but to be clear, I wouldn't actually want him to be a gangster, i'm just talking about his philosophy

That philosophy doesn't really make sense considering his position as the God of War.What is he afraid of?How does that relate to humanity and his domain?

[Alpha]

That philosophy doesn't really make sense considering his position as the God of War.What is he afraid of?How does that relate to humanity and his domain?

Obviously other gods and titans

And most of all, this is what he would profess to mankind as he ensured the continuation of aggression, not to trick them, but because he sincerely believes this is true and what humans need to follow to survive

[Primal Slayer]

That was a pretty crafty plot by E2 Cheetah. She really should get more credit. What book is this from?

Wonder Woman vol1

[Mel Dyer]

Obviously other gods and titans

And most of all, this is what he would profess to mankind as he ensured the continuation of aggression, not to trick them, but because he sincerely believes this is true and what humans need to follow to survive

Well, Alpha...I think your philosophy makes perfect sense...

If you're taking the narrative route to create him, that Bill Loebs did. Bringing Ares down to Earth, into a human body, and investing him with human concerns is complex. The challenge for writers becomes making Ares's expression of power - his violence, his vulnerability, his struggle to crush his enemies or to survive - make sense in a human setting, like a city, politics or the criminal underworld. What is he willing to do to hold onto his power in the mortal world? How is Wonder Woman a threat to that power? I think exploring the emotions that come out of that struggle in a WW story could make Ares very interesting in a way he wouldn't be, otherwise.

We've seen him strutting around in the sky covered in gore and muscles, virtually invulnerable. We've seen him stomping around in his 80s Boo'Berry armor, huffing and puffing about destroying everything, while ultimately having no impact on an Earthly status quo. Investing him with some measure of an Earthly struggle makes him relatable.

I'm intrigued by your idea, Alpha. As I see it, writers either have to go higher and weirder with Ares ..or to bring his villainy down to Earth, a little, where the threat of Ares succeeding at something actually matters.

[Dr. Poison]

Wonder Woman vol1

Thanks. I'll have to look for the issue when I have a chance.

[WonderScott]

E2 Cheetah...SMART

Very smart!

I also live for the eleganza of a jumpsuit with a built in boot.

Interesting parallel between Priscilla struggling with identity issues and mental health in her incarnation and how Barbara Minerva had a bit of the same of her own version at times from the curse of Urzkartaga.

[WonderScott]

I’ve posted this before in other threads, but what I think would help Ares and other deities is if DC invested some creativity and page-time to exploring the nature of divinity in the DCU. And, not just for the Olympians and Titans, but the Egyptian, Norse, Aztec, New Gods, Kryptonian, etc.

Are they manifestations of mortals’ ideas and faith? Are they fueled by belief or do they exist as beings regardless of belief? Are they “alien” beings of a sort that are just more powerful and exist on different planes than wholly physical beings (e.g. humans, Tamaraneans, etc.) Are they physical beings that somehow underwent apotheosis? Are they basically, inescapably, the concepts and themes they embody or do they have personalities, will and emotions similar to mortal beings? What do they consist of in the Godosphere versus the physical manifestations they create on the mortal plane? Are they more powerful in the Godosphere or on the mortal plane? Are there differences between different divinities or multiple kinds of divinities - Apokoliptan versus Olympian versus the Hosts of Heaven, etc.?

At least I think it’d be really interesting to explore that and it’s something I’ve been trying to answer in my own creative Wonder work.

To me, knowing what they are and their perspective helps me to think about who the are and how to represent and portray them as a character interacting with Diana and the DCU.

[Primal Slayer]

They should've used her as a bit of inspiration/reboot of Grail. Or just bring her back all together as a revamped villain.

[Primal Slayer]

[Perseus]

Oh no, witcher...

I'm sorry that I left your quote attached to my comment...seriously. I started writing a response to something you typed, then completely forgot about it - more sorry I left you with the misunderstanding ..that I needed you to agree with something.

Sorry, buddy.

I posted James Tynion's revision of Circe's beginning, for the same reason I always post it. I posted it, because not everybody's been reading the comic, since 1986, ..or long enough to have read Tynion's Circe story in Justice League Dark or anything before Zero Hour, which gave us Disco Diva Circe ..and simply don't know this new, marvelously coherent origin! Nothing there for you to agree with, Witcher...

Obviously or less than obviously wasn't for you, then.

Dude, I like her current story lmao, I read JL Dark and Zero Hour. I like her old stories too, like when she had Ares's child, and eventually went with him to the underworld. I just prefer her to not lose that sexy witch look that she has because it's much more iconic and stands out compared to Diana's other rouges, who are all armored or wearing lab coats and suits already.

[Perseus]

To me the biggest issue with Ares as portrayed is that he's like a 8 year old boy. He does war because war is cool. Because it's fun. He just embodies a vision of the world where war exists because men like to fight. Is it true? I mean, yeah that also happens. Not very insightful though is it? And if the entire philosophical counter argument Diana has to that is "war isn't cool because it hurts people" then she's not even arguing under the same wavelength as that version of Ares.

Rucka's rebirth version of Ares sort of follows that in a fairly entertaining way with "8 year old boy loves war because it's cool, makes a tantrum and then feels sorry for being so impulsive" and I enjoyed it as a story, but again, not very insightful.

And yes I get it, you guys like this stuff. But couldn't there be a more vivid take on Ares?

What if Ares' philosophy was more the gangster mentality of Dog-eat-Dog. What if he was like Avon Barksdale from The Wire. The vicious cycle of his mentality. He thinks the world is out to get him, and he won't let them catch him, so he's going to attack them before they get the chance to attack him. The contagious survivalist desire. This is something Diana can understand, and totally disagree with. This is something that is pretty damn hard to deny once you experience it. To me it's what would make the God of War more than just a infantilized take on war.

Who would be out to get Ares? His family for the most part hates him, but are they actively trying to get him?

I personally like the internal conflict of Diana not wanting to admit it but realizing that war is necessary sometimes. It builds on a unique relationship between the two that's both familial and ideological.

Rucka's Ares in Rebirth was consumed by war. He is literally the overseer of it. He enjoyed it then it overpowered his will and drove him mad. It was Aphrodite's love that brought him back... did you even read Rucka? His Ares constantly states that War is necessary for change and for men to challenge themselves in battle against their own ideas and might. The whole peace is stagnation while conflict is change, and Diana's rebuttal of how peace is a virtue. None of this is boiled down to an 8-year-old throwing a tantrum. It just screams to me that you don't like the character, which is fine.