Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2022

[Hulkout42]

We re on the verge of getting the first on going for betsy since her debut, moving he marvel universe on wards and we are not excited. I guess tini has traumatized us really hard

The final nail for me was when she wrote "One storybook-shaking battle later...", the cringe levels were through the roof. Honestly that hurt worse than when Bendis had Thanos go "People of Earth...Hi there!"

[JB]

One can imagine how hard I laughed my ass off while reading this panel in Captain Britain #2 during my recent deep dive.



Brian's very first fight, where he had no idea how he was even able to fight the way he was as his powers were brand new. Tell me you didn't grow up on Claremont without telling me. It makes me laugh how what Tini wrote was such a outrage, especially considering we were told in KoX #1 that as soon as they got a Krakoan gate open to Otherworld the X-Men would roll right over Merlyn's forces quickly. The moment I saw Rogue come through the gate I knew it was all finally over.

But to each their own and I can only respect where other readers are coming from. I just had to share the laughs.

[Hulkout42]

One can imagine how hard I laughed my ass off while reading this panel in Captain Britain #2 during my recent deep dive.



Brian's very first fight, where he had no idea how he was even able to fight the way he was as his powers were brand new. Tell me you didn't grow up on Claremont without telling me. It makes me laugh how what Tini wrote was such a outrage, especially considering we were told in KoX #1 that as soon as they got a Krakoan gate open to Otherworld the X-Men would roll right over Merlyn's forces quickly. The moment I saw Rogue come through the gate I knew it was all finally over.

But to each their own and I can only respect where other readers are coming from. I just had to share the laughs.

I am not that subtle so i will just be blunt, I came into comics after the Claremont era and X-men was not my introduction into comics but rather Spider-man so this is not something i am aware of.

[JB]

I am not that subtle so i will just be blunt, I came into comics after the Claremont era and X-men was not my introduction into comics but rather Spider-man so this is not something i am aware of.

Yeah it's just a classic comic trope that's used in a cheeky way, usually when something is not particularly needed to be shown. Brian finished off those goons off-panel but the real battle against the leader was shown and detailed. In this particular case with Howard she set it up at the beginning so that the reader knew once the portal was opened Merlyn stood no chance. But don't get me wrong, she's guilty of dropping plot points without clear intention, the most glaring being towards the end of Excalibur #18 when Jamie opens the sarcophagus housing a new body he made for Betsy, only to find it empty. We never knew what happened to it! (Although it would be cool if Coven Akkaba took it and used it to bring Selene back or something).

And this isn't directed at you but I figured I'd get it off my chest generally speaking. We've kinda reached the point where everything that can be said about Howard's writing has been said over the course of Excalibur and KoX, so it's like this thread has hit a wall. It doesn't make any of the opinions or criticisms invalid but it's like a merry-go-round of repeated complaints. Myself and a few others have tried to bring in hopeful/positive points but they're either usually ignored or met with "but Howard is horrible!" and then the thread stalls. I can't help but compare it to other threads - Storm fans kept the fire burning even when she was written poorly, Jean fans did the same when she was literally absent from the books, some Polaris fans are unhappy with her status right now but keep chugging along. Again, to each their own, but I feel like Betsy fans can keep the fire going too, ESPECIALLY because she's been given a solo and Marvel wants to take a chance on her spreading out into the wider MU. Something I'm sure fans of other characters would be thrilled to have. I'll likely write up the spoiler threads for BBCB which I'm fine with being fair game to criticism and scrutiny - I never had a problem with that and welcome it. But I decided to make the Braddock family thread because I was a little sad that anytime someone tried to look on the bright side here, their parade was rained on. My hope is that it inspires a little excitement in others.

If it's preferred to keep the conversation in this thread about Howard, then that's of course fair and it is what it is. It's just my nature to try to look at the positive so I'm okay with playing in a separate sandbox if I must. I just hope some of you come visit!

[CGAR]

Your positivity is ALWAYS appreciated.

[Uncanny X-Man]

Your positivity is ALWAYS appreciated.

100% agreed!

[JB]

Your positivity is ALWAYS appreciated.

100% agreed!

Thank you both!

[Krakoa]

The final nail for me was when she wrote "One storybook-shaking battle later...", the cringe levels were through the roof. Honestly that hurt worse than when Bendis had Thanos go "People of Earth...Hi there!"

That was a direct result of the book being cancelled and her needing to wrap up the plots fast.

[Kwannon]

Yeah it's just a classic comic trope that's used in a cheeky way, usually when something is not particularly needed to be shown. Brian finished off those goons off-panel but the real battle against the leader was shown and detailed. In this particular case with Howard she set it up at the beginning so that the reader knew once the portal was opened Merlyn stood no chance. But don't get me wrong, she's guilty of dropping plot points without clear intention, the most glaring being towards the end of Excalibur #18 when Jamie opens the sarcophagus housing a new body he made for Betsy, only to find it empty. We never knew what happened to it! (Although it would be cool if Coven Akkaba took it and used it to bring Selene back or something).

And this isn't directed at you but I figured I'd get it off my chest generally speaking. We've kinda reached the point where everything that can be said about Howard's writing has been said over the course of Excalibur and KoX, so it's like this thread has hit a wall. It doesn't make any of the opinions or criticisms invalid but it's like a merry-go-round of repeated complaints. Myself and a few others have tried to bring in hopeful/positive points but they're either usually ignored or met with "but Howard is horrible!" and then the thread stalls. I can't help but compare it to other threads - Storm fans kept the fire burning even when she was written poorly, Jean fans did the same when she was literally absent from the books, some Polaris fans are unhappy with her status right now but keep chugging along. Again, to each their own, but I feel like Betsy fans can keep the fire going too, ESPECIALLY because she's been given a solo and Marvel wants to take a chance on her spreading out into the wider MU. Something I'm sure fans of other characters would be thrilled to have. I'll likely write up the spoiler threads for BBCB which I'm fine with being fair game to criticism and scrutiny - I never had a problem with that and welcome it. But I decided to make the Braddock family thread because I was a little sad that anytime someone tried to look on the bright side here, their parade was rained on. My hope is that it inspires a little excitement in others.

If it's preferred to keep the conversation in this thread about Howard, then that's of course fair and it is what it is. It's just my nature to try to look at the positive so I'm okay with playing in a separate sandbox if I must. I just hope some of you come visit!

Very good post.

Love,
Kwannon

[MentalManipulator]

Yeah it's just a classic comic trope that's used in a cheeky way, usually when something is not particularly needed to be shown. Brian finished off those goons off-panel but the real battle against the leader was shown and detailed. In this particular case with Howard she set it up at the beginning so that the reader knew once the portal was opened Merlyn stood no chance. But don't get me wrong, she's guilty of dropping plot points without clear intention, the most glaring being towards the end of Excalibur #18 when Jamie opens the sarcophagus housing a new body he made for Betsy, only to find it empty. We never knew what happened to it! (Although it would be cool if Coven Akkaba took it and used it to bring Selene back or something).

And this isn't directed at you but I figured I'd get it off my chest generally speaking. We've kinda reached the point where everything that can be said about Howard's writing has been said over the course of Excalibur and KoX, so it's like this thread has hit a wall. It doesn't make any of the opinions or criticisms invalid but it's like a merry-go-round of repeated complaints. Myself and a few others have tried to bring in hopeful/positive points but they're either usually ignored or met with "but Howard is horrible!" and then the thread stalls. I can't help but compare it to other threads - Storm fans kept the fire burning even when she was written poorly, Jean fans did the same when she was literally absent from the books, some Polaris fans are unhappy with her status right now but keep chugging along. Again, to each their own, but I feel like Betsy fans can keep the fire going too, ESPECIALLY because she's been given a solo and Marvel wants to take a chance on her spreading out into the wider MU. Something I'm sure fans of other characters would be thrilled to have. I'll likely write up the spoiler threads for BBCB which I'm fine with being fair game to criticism and scrutiny - I never had a problem with that and welcome it. But I decided to make the Braddock family thread because I was a little sad that anytime someone tried to look on the bright side here, their parade was rained on. My hope is that it inspires a little excitement in others.

If it's preferred to keep the conversation in this thread about Howard, then that's of course fair and it is what it is. It's just my nature to try to look at the positive so I'm okay with playing in a separate sandbox if I must. I just hope some of you come visit!

Thanks to you post and the Braddock thread I am getting excited again for the new book. A focus on the Braddock is a dream come true to me. I hope Brian is done justice as well since I love the 2 of them together. I'm assuming Meggan is going to be in it as well and I would love for Warren, Kwannon, Ororo, Kurt and Logan to cameo from time to time.

[JB]

Very good post.

Love,
Kwannon

Thank you, Kwannon. I appreciate that.

Thanks to you post and the Braddock thread I am getting excited again for the new book. A focus on the Braddock is a dream come true to me. I hope Brian is done justice as well since I love the 2 of them together. I'm assuming Meggan is going to be in it as well and I would love for Warren, Kwannon, Ororo, Kurt and Logan to cameo from time to time.

I can't tell you how much this comment made my heart smile, MentalManipulator. As I going back and forth with Panic in the Braddock thread I was washed over by this happiness for Betsy. She was this supporting character in a sporadic run of stories that could have easily vanished because she had no set home. But writers continued to believe in her and then Claremont brought her along for the X-Men ride when he didn't have to. And now she's getting a series with her actual name on the cover, you know? It's not just Captain Britain, it's Betsy Braddock CB. Like you, it's a dream come true for me because she gets to keep her family by her side. One different decision along the way and who knows, we may not even know Betsy and Brian today.

Meggan too! She made such an impression in her early years that I understand now why Claremont grabbed her too. Her relationship with Brian is one of the best love stories in comics IMO.

From your fingertips to the X-Office's ears about Warren, Kwannon, Ororo, Kurt and Logan! I loved the way she and Kwannon worked together in Excalibur, and I'm such a massive fan of the Ororo/Betsy friendship. I was actually thinking about Logan today. I consider him part of the "larger MU" because of his mega popularity so I imagined an arc or two where he guest-stars and he, Betsy, and Rachel work together on a mission.

[Psyknight]

Some of you should listen to Tini Howards interviews.

She literally wants Betsy to struggle, she wants her to not have it together and she wants her to make errors. She finds it more interesting for her characters to take "L's".

But its constant L's with bad dialogue that make it bad for me.

Like I get you want your POV character to struggle but your execution is so bad and its such a 180 from previous characterization.

The only two times I recognized the Betsy I like is when she confront Arthur that first time in her gym gear and then putting Merlyn in his place and killing him.

Same… too many losses and she’s just not “herself”. When they wanted to prop Kitty up they took Storm down. She always getting knocked out or not confident about her leading abilities. That was not the Storm I wanted to read. Even when she didn’t “win”, she never backed down. For me Betsy has been portrayed as incompetent, whiny, bratty and weak through out Excalibur except for maybe the two instances you listed above.

When she was originally attacked by Sabertooth, she didn’t “win” but she didn’t lose. She held her own enough to survive and draw him away from the infirmary. She thought about the others that could have been harmed and she wasn’t going to go out without a fight. Thankfully Wolverine showed up, but she did this before she was truly a warrior. Even at the time she was unsure of her place in the X-men. She made the X-men go through the Siege Perilous to save them from the Reavers. That was another non-win win.

Unfortunately current Betsy never seems as cunning or competent during either of these runs. That’s what Tini is missing.

My suspicion is that Tini worries about getting accused of turning characters into “perfect” Mary Sues, so she way overcompensates and writes them as doddering morons instead. *sigh* It’s so frustrating.

[Kwannon]

Thanks to you post and the Braddock thread I am getting excited again for the new book. A focus on the Braddock is a dream come true to me. I hope Brian is done justice as well since I love the 2 of them together. I'm assuming Meggan is going to be in it as well and I would love for Warren, Kwannon, Ororo, Kurt and Logan to cameo from time to time.

Would be fun to synergize my powers with Betsy’s and see what new combined energy signature we can manifest when we amplify each other’s powers.

[MetalPsyc]

Yeah it's just a classic comic trope that's used in a cheeky way, usually when something is not particularly needed to be shown. Brian finished off those goons off-panel but the real battle against the leader was shown and detailed. In this particular case with Howard she set it up at the beginning so that the reader knew once the portal was opened Merlyn stood no chance. But don't get me wrong, she's guilty of dropping plot points without clear intention, the most glaring being towards the end of Excalibur #18 when Jamie opens the sarcophagus housing a new body he made for Betsy, only to find it empty. We never knew what happened to it! (Although it would be cool if Coven Akkaba took it and used it to bring Selene back or something).

And this isn't directed at you but I figured I'd get it off my chest generally speaking. We've kinda reached the point where everything that can be said about Howard's writing has been said over the course of Excalibur and KoX, so it's like this thread has hit a wall. It doesn't make any of the opinions or criticisms invalid but it's like a merry-go-round of repeated complaints. Myself and a few others have tried to bring in hopeful/positive points but they're either usually ignored or met with "but Howard is horrible!" and then the thread stalls. I can't help but compare it to other threads - Storm fans kept the fire burning even when she was written poorly, Jean fans did the same when she was literally absent from the books, some Polaris fans are unhappy with her status right now but keep chugging along. Again, to each their own, but I feel like Betsy fans can keep the fire going too, ESPECIALLY because she's been given a solo and Marvel wants to take a chance on her spreading out into the wider MU. Something I'm sure fans of other characters would be thrilled to have. I'll likely write up the spoiler threads for BBCB which I'm fine with being fair game to criticism and scrutiny - I never had a problem with that and welcome it. But I decided to make the Braddock family thread because I was a little sad that anytime someone tried to look on the bright side here, their parade was rained on. My hope is that it inspires a little excitement in others.

If it's preferred to keep the conversation in this thread about Howard, then that's of course fair and it is what it is. It's just my nature to try to look at the positive so I'm okay with playing in a separate sandbox if I must. I just hope some of you come visit!

Thank you for the positivity.

I have my disappointments on Howard' writing of Betsy. But I'm still excited about Betsy's first ever solo series. It's a long time coming and I think it's something to be celebrated.

[Jwyatt]

One can imagine how hard I laughed my ass off while reading this panel in Captain Britain #2 during my recent deep dive.



Brian's very first fight, where he had no idea how he was even able to fight the way he was as his powers were brand new. Tell me you didn't grow up on Claremont without telling me. It makes me laugh how what Tini wrote was such a outrage, especially considering we were told in KoX #1 that as soon as they got a Krakoan gate open to Otherworld the X-Men would roll right over Merlyn's forces quickly. The moment I saw Rogue come through the gate I knew it was all finally over.

But to each their own and I can only respect where other readers are coming from. I just had to share the laughs.

Both are examples of bad story-telling.