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  1. #166
    Spectacular Member Psigal's Avatar
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    So, they have changed the title. But as long as it is written by Tini and Betsy is in it, it is still Excalibur, lol. Betsy's redemption story won't be completed until they give you the reason for her behaviour at the beginning of Excalibur and get back everything that belongs to her including the most important 'Psylocke' title. And when she does so, it will already be the very end of Krakoa and thats why I said Excalibur is going to have around 40 to 50 issues and won't be ended until that time.

    It turns out Betsy is actually one of the most planned character in this Krakoa era and she is just important like other X-Men like Jean, Wolverine, Professor X or actually more important than them because of what she represents. They have hidden her for decades then isolated and downplayed her at the beginning of Krakoa but I guess Betsy fans's dream is finally going to come true that she is actually going to the TOP and she will be one of the saviors by the end of Krakoa and achieve her full potential in the next era. One of the prove is she is still written by Tini which means they have the whole plan for her since the beginning of Krakoa to the end. Also, Tini has hinted Betsy is going into politics which is actually tied to an event in the future.

    The fact is, when I read Excalibur up to #16, I am the same as some of you that it feels Tini actually hated Betsy and gave her so much failure amd embarrassment so I have opened an account here to talk because what we were expecting is, after so many years when she has finally returned to her originally body and received the Captain Britain role, she must be going to do something really great but instead, what we saw are mostly her incompetent. However, after I read #19 and gave it some thought, I know what they are trying to do with Betsy and all her failure is necessary because of what she represents. I am going to let you know everything I found and explain all the important decisions on Betsy in this Krakoa era below.

    But before you read, I am quite sure most of you won't believe what I said which it is fine. However, I really suggest you to read everything I have written below and keep them in mind because all of this will be proven whether I am right or wrong eventually in the next few years.

    First of all, Betsy and Kwannon are created almost 50 years ago to represent US and China relationship. The only hint to that is Kwannon being a Japanese but with the name of a Chinese goddess. I see some of you think 'Kwannon' is a Japanese goddess but she isn't. 'Kuan Yin(Kwannon)' is from buddhist and buddhist is from Indian. However, Chinese basically invented 'Kuan Yin' for their own Buddhist so she is a Chinese goddess. It is just she is really famous that some Japanese worships her too. And there was a time I thought Betsy represents The West but that isn't accurate because on the same level if Kwannon being a Japanese actually represent China and Chinese, then Betsy being a
    British should represent US and Americans. This is actually what they did to hide the message so most people won't notice it but at the same time it is related and actually make sense.

    Now, the most important thing of this representation is the 'Body Swap'. When Betsy's conicousness was transfered into Kwannon's body, it is a reflection of US moving their factories to China back in the time around 1970 for production. US has provided technology and money(telepathy, soul) while China provided land, labour and resoureces(body, martial art skills, telekinesis) and this relationship was well and lasted over 40 years until Betsy returned to her original body some years ago and thats around time when US and China started to get 'divorced'. Also, remember Kwannon was only a low tier psychic before the body swap. Only through Betsy, she gained telepathy(technology) and that makes her as powerful as Betsy in Krakoa and thats today's China.

    The 'Psylocke' title in this representation is the 'leading role of the world' which Betsy has given it up herself like what she presents because of the 'mental problem'. But what is the 'mental problem' actually? I can't really go deep because it is too complicated and it will involve politics. But I will simply say that 'the past isn't perfect because it is filled with right and wrong(all Betsy's adventure in the past decades). But if you deny all of them, you will no longer be the person that you were made today and will become a nobody and has to start all over again like what Betsy did at the beginning of Excalibur and suffer from all those failture in Excalibur #1 to #19'. This is basically more or less the explanation Tini will give you eventually. The reason they have to strip Betsy from everything she got in the past like the Psylocke codename, butterfly signature, martial art skill...etc, and gave all of them to Kwannon temporarily, is to make you FEEL it especially you are American.

    For storywise, it was started by Leah in Age of X and there should be something happened between the end of Age of X and the beginning of Excalibur. Probably Betsy made some stupid decisions(honestly, the 'mental problem' is also a stupidity problem) there(she doesn't look exactly forget the past but could have alternated some facts(or you can say 'censored' or 'changing history') in her mind so she can feel better but she is no longer herself) and lead to what happened in Excalibur. Kwannon knew it and told us in #19(and also helped to adjust Betsy's past/fact back so her butterfly signature start to appear again afterwards) and thats the time when I realize what they are trying to do. But do Leah and Tini know about this representation? I don't think so. However, Hickman should know it in order to manipulate all this to happen.

    For Kwannon, they gave her a soft good background of her having a daughter is because she doesn't only represent China but her people too. And I will simply say the message here is 'people's growth is affected by their surrounding and it will have great influence on what kind of person they will become'. Kwannon was trained to become an assassin since she was young, her lover was killed and her daughter was taken away from her. It is hard not to become a villain if you grow up in an environment like this and the same goes for what she represents. It is a sad story but Kwannon will become one of the main villain at the end of Krakoa era and Betsy will be the one that deal with her. Also, Kwannon basically received all the treatment that belongs to Asian Betsy, so you would have some hate for her and at the same time have pity for her too. Kwannon will die as a stepping stone for Betsy to grow and return the Psylocke codename to her. (However, Kwannon's daughter will live even she seems to be dead in the last Hellion issue because of this repsentation.)

    The final showdown between Betsy and Kwannon will 'predict' what is going to happen in the real world and Betsy will finally be able to fulfil her DESTINY to finish this representation. The truth is, the current world order is about to end. One of the women will be gone before the next one begins and I hope you know what I mean.

    I know most of you are reading comics and it is probably hard to believe Betsy was created to make this representation almost 50 years ago. But if it is true, wouldn't it make Betsy one of the most important X-Men like a hidden 'Chosen One'? Betsy will be one of the saviors by the end of Krakoa and she will achieve her full potential and LEAD the X-Men in next era for the reason she is also tied to the event in 2028 to represent another thing that she is representing all along.

    For those who don't believe it, why would all the time right now, while US and China relationship being so instense and is the spotlight in the world and at the same time Betsy and Kwannon are leading two titles in the two X-Men comics and attracted so much attention like they are competitiors for each other in this Krakoa era? Why would they make Betsy and Kwannon basically equal in power(at least what it looks like) but Betsy is actually weaker because of the 'mental problem'(hating herself and the past)? All of this isn't coincidence but I will let you decide what to believe, lol. (If Betsy has eventually get back the Psylocke codename and Kwannon died by the end of Krakoa and Betsy
    is even going to be the leader of X-Men in the next era, will you believe what I say?)

    In conclusion, it was meant for Betsy to lose the codename 'Psylocke' in this Krakoa era but not permanently for the reason above. And if you believe what I said about this representation, you will know Betsy is actually one of the most valuable X-Men and the way she was written in Krakoa by Tini is allowed by the 'top decision maker'. So, there is no need to worry as Betsy will eventally back to herself and get everything that belongs to her at the end of Krakoa and she will take the leading role in the next era.(The 4 to 8 years after Krakoa era is the time that Betsy reachs her prime.)

    (Betsy's fans asked why Betsy is treated this way in this Krakoa era and is still questioning now. The above is the answer because Betsy is tied to the event in the real world. But is it beyond their level of understanding and acceptance? Lol.)
    Last edited by Psigal; 04-15-2022 at 09:50 PM.

  2. #167
    Spectacular Member Psigal's Avatar
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    And I think it is quite obvious that mutant always represent minority since they were created and in current time, represent the LGBTQ community. And the story of Krakoa is about them finally able to create a nationality of their own and what will happen afterwards. So, do you believe there is no political or hidden message in this Krakoa era? Moreover, quite a lot of its topic is about the development of humanity like a summary of last 50 years and made some predictions for the future(Like AI, new generation, socialistism...etc).

    Krakoa is basically a socialist country and socialist will eventually lead to dictatorship(Quiet Council) because only that is able to make socialist to work. I think it is quite possible that Professor X actually modified some of the revived mutants and the triangle love between Jean, Cyclops and Wolverine is the prove of it because they are out of their characters in certain directions. Betsy may do the similar trick like she did in Age of X again by restoring and reversing Professor X's modification on the revived mutant(bring back free will) to what they originally are as one of the saviors by the end of Krakoa era. Krakoa will end in 2024 and finish its influence by that time.

    (Last year, I said Krakoa is created to 'break' dreams of younger generation(or anyone that is still immature) and they will do the same thing in real life too. So, with the recent events, are they able to change to you by a little? The endgame is Betsy VS Kwannon, will you be ready by 2024? Lol.)
    Last edited by Psigal; 04-15-2022 at 09:54 PM.

  3. #168
    Incredible Member Knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    The reason why Brian agreed to step aside and let Betsy be Captain Britain is he is a busy married man with two children. He is still a Captain, though.

    They more or less retired his character with the two children. I mean, Meghan will soon have the second child.

    I don’t see the status quo changing until the MCU decides to use the Braddocks. Then we may see Betsy with a new codename.
    Yeah Brian still wanted to be Captain Britain. In fact he wanted him amulet back until Betsy destroyed it to spite Brian/Saturnyne. Otherwise there would be no need for him to become Captain Avalon and Meggan become Avalon court sorceress(?).

    Also the second child is a hellfire gala plot line that hasn't been mentioned since. I wouldn't count on it happening.

  4. #169
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    So in a nutshell you think that Marvel is going to suddenly villianize Kwannon after spending so much time painting her in a sympathetic light and very clearly making her the victim of the body swap so Marvel can have the British white woman who originally "stole" her body in the first place fight said Asian woman in order for Betsy to "take" everything from Kwannon...again. Yeah, no.

    Oh and also you think Xavier is mentally manipulating Jean, Scott, and Logan into being in a open relationship because of...reasons I guess??

  5. #170
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    That was a lot.
    Betsy was created YEARS before Kwannon was retconned into existence. There was NO body swap in the initial storyline. Sorry, I don’t see Kwannon becoming a villain any time soon.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
    Yeah Brian still wanted to be Captain Britain. In fact he wanted him amulet back until Betsy destroyed it to spite Brian/Saturnyne. Otherwise there would be no need for him to become Captain Avalon and Meggan become Avalon court sorceress(?).

    Also the second child is a hellfire gala plot line that hasn't been mentioned since. I wouldn't count on it happening.
    He specifically told Saturnyne he wanted to serve his brother and remain with his wife. He did not want to be Captain Britain. He did not take the Starlight sword. He let Betsy take it.

  7. #172
    Spectacular Member Kwannon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    So in a nutshell you think that Marvel is going to suddenly villianize Kwannon after spending so much time painting her in a sympathetic light and very clearly making her the victim of the body swap so Marvel can have the British white woman who originally "stole" her body in the first place fight said Asian woman in order for Betsy to "take" everything from Kwannon...again. Yeah, no.

    Oh and also you think Xavier is mentally manipulating Jean, Scott, and Logan into being in a open relationship because of...reasons I guess??
    I have to agree with you. The other telepaths and I discussed the above posterÂ’s posts during our weekly psychic knitting club session over tequila shots and we all agree that this person is not a precog. We checked with Destiny and she said none of the above predictions will come to pass in any possible outcome and itÂ’s probably just drunk Moira getting fresh with us again.

    Jean telekinetically knit me a cardigan which was okay at first but it started to look weird after her 8th shot of tequila.

    Betsy and I have a lot of things in common actually. We might hang out next Thursday after work.

  8. #173
    Extraordinary Member CGAR's Avatar
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    Hopefully Tini starts writing Betsy a lot more in the way we recognized her before. Or hopefully this only last one arc if its not up to par.

  9. #174
    Jewish & Proud Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    I thought Betsy becoming a Chinese “face” represented the British occupation of Hong Kong, to the point that Claremont even brought it up in the storyline.
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  10. #175
    Incredible Member Knightmare's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallStreeter View Post
    He specifically told Saturnyne he wanted to serve his brother and remain with his wife. He did not want to be Captain Britain. He did not take the Starlight sword. He let Betsy take it.
    Yeah he didn't say that exactly. I assume you're referring to Excalibur #13 when Brian becomes Captain Avalon(still a stupid name). All he said was that he raises the Sword of Might in defence of his family and Avalon. Tini seems to be forgetting that both the Amulet of Right and the Sword of Might make you a Captain Britain, so in essence Brian never stopped being Captain Britain. Also saying he wanted to retire from superhero work only to go and take a similar job in Avalon doesn't really fly with me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcat View Post
    I thought Betsy becoming a Chinese “face” represented the British occupation of Hong Kong, to the point that Claremont even brought it up in the storyline.
    That would be a problem especially since Kwannon is Japanese. Seems to me for the sake of international politics that making a Japanese person the face of the British occupation of Hong Kong would be worse than a British person.

  11. #176
    Jewish & Proud Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
    That would be a problem especially since Kwannon is Japanese. Seems to me for the sake of international politics that making a Japanese person the face of the British occupation of Hong Kong would be worse than a British person.
    Not talking about Kwannon, I’m talking about Claremont’s intentions regarding Betsy’s race swapping, not the Kwannon retcon.
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  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knightmare View Post
    Yeah he didn't say that exactly. I assume you're referring to Excalibur #13 when Brian becomes Captain Avalon(still a stupid name). All he said was that he raises the Sword of Might in defence of his family and Avalon. Tini seems to be forgetting that both the Amulet of Right and the Sword of Might make you a Captain Britain, so in essence Brian never stopped being Captain Britain. Also saying he wanted to retire from superhero work only to go and take a similar job in Avalon doesn't really fly with me.



    That would be a problem especially since Kwannon is Japanese. Seems to me for the sake of international politics that making a Japanese person the face of the British occupation of Hong Kong would be worse than a British person.
    While Brian still has Captain Britain powers, he blatantly and clearly said he did not want to serve Saturnyne, and instead decided to serve his brother King Jamie of Avalon. He was perfectly fine with Betsy taking the starlight sword and becoming Captain Britain. The two had worked out that deal, and the three siblings played Saturnyne as if they were squabbling.

    It's what was actually PUBLISHED. It's not about what you personally like or what I personally like. It's about what is factually in the books, not about anyone's feelings.

  13. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    I'd say that Betsy needs her own thing, if Kwannon has the Psylocke name then Betsy should get her own new name and everything, leaving being CB to her brother...
    With captain american, spiderman and wolverine codenames being now used by different mainstream heroes (Steve Rogers and Sam Wilson, Peter and Miles and Logan and Laura) I have no objection to betsy and kwannon sharing the Psylocke Codename

  14. #179
    Focused Totality Psycwave's Avatar
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    When the blue and red has a darker palette >


  15. #180
    Jewish & Proud Feminist Shadowcat's Avatar
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    How can Betts get two new uniforms in the Krakoan era, and both are uninspired?
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