Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2022

[Rnap22]

The comment about how it was a mistake to “alter” Betsy four years ago and talking a lot about Warren and Betsy as if Betsy being bi invalidates their connection somehow

Uh.. the poster meant changing her back into her original body and talking about the Betsy/Warren relationship was built up over time. This Betsy/Rachel thing hasn’t been built up with anything more than just Rachel. I didn’t read anything homophobic. This thing is rushed, one sided and not written well.

No one cares if she’s bi. At least develop a relationship. This is creepy because Rachel just seems so dependent and obsessed with Betsy and it’s out of nowhere.

[Selene]

The comment about how it was a mistake to “alter” Betsy four years ago and talking a lot about Warren and Betsy as if Betsy being bi invalidates their connection somehow

Try paying more attention before calling someone homophobic, please. Psylocke's sexuality wasn't 'altered' four years ago going by Humphries' horrendous UXF run. I was refrerring to the move to 'hard reset' the character in the Mystery in Madripoor mini, which has been followed upon by one wrong decision after another so far. My point about Warren and Betsy's relationship stands as criticism against Howard's push for Betsy and Rachel, which came out of nowhere and pretty much validates what many say about Howard's being incapable of knowing how to write characters.

EDIT: @Rnap22 Thank you.

[JB]

We’re not “merging” again.

Kwannon has spoken.

[Krakoa]

And funnily enough, one cannot make a more emphatic argument other than the WarrenXBetsy plot in order to establish what a bad writer Tini Howard is. On one hand, you have a man and a woman, who aren't exactly what you'd call kindred spirits, but share a similar background and character development; their connection is slowly, but carefully built, the product of a mutual attraction, which is more than physical. And on the other, you have an intimate moment between two women -occuring right after the loss of one of their friends- without any sensible foundation or build-up.

I knew it was a mistake to alter Psylocke four years ago, but right now I'm not so sure Jim Zub would have gone through with the change in the Mystery in Madripoor mini, if he'd seen any of this coming.

Try paying more attention before calling someone homophobic, please. Psylocke's sexuality wasn't 'altered' four years ago going by Humphries' horrendous UXF run. I was refrerring to the move to 'hard reset' the character in the Mystery in Madripoor mini, which has been followed upon by one wrong decision after another so far. My point about Warren and Betsy's relationship stands as criticism against Howard's push for Betsy and Rachel, which came out of nowhere and pretty much validates what many say about Howard's being incapable of knowing how to write characters.

EDIT: @Rnap22 Thank you.

For me, it was that you were responding to an "I'm all for diversity, but" and your emphasis on "a man and a woman" followed by "two women", and calling Psylocke's change a "mistake" and that Zub wouldn't have done it "if he'd seen any of this coming", not stopping to specify what "any of this" is. It seems to me you are speaking to something beyond momentary bad writing as if this is something irrevocable. Nowhere in your comment did you affirm that Psylocke's bisexuality is a positive step, but executed poorly. The undertones here were uncomfortable. (And I do think this was a badly written plot, but it didn't come out of nowhere, it's been seeded throughout all of Krakoa in their interactions. And I think it's important to acknowledge the constraints here, in that we couldn't get as deep into Betsy's head about this when it was subtext and not yet fully approved by editorial to actually happen.)

[sublimeclown]

I'm gay and I prefer Betsy with men personally. But she's always been super sex positive, so it's not much of stretch that she would be into women/bi as well (the Cluster thing was too much of a gray area to be definitive IMO). Rachel I prefer with women so I'm happy that's she come out. I'm just not buying their romance yet. But I guess we don't really know that they're an actual couple now. Just because they kissed doesn't mean that Betsy wants to commit to her or anything. Rachel definitely seems more into her than vice versa but I guess we'll see. Is it too much to hope for a meaningful exploration of sexual fluidity and unpacking years of suppressed feelings?

[CGAR]

I'm gay AF too and I like that Betsy is bisexual.

I do not dig a relationship with Rachel though only because I viewed her as a cool aunt to Rachel.

But thats what our own head canon does.

We shall see how this goes.

[Selene]

For me, it was that you were responding to an "I'm all for diversity, but" and your emphasis on "a man and a woman" followed by "two women", and calling Psylocke's change a "mistake" and that Zub wouldn't have done it "if he'd seen any of this coming", not stopping to specify what "any of this" is. It seems to me you are speaking to something beyond momentary bad writing as if this is something irrevocable. Nowhere in your comment did you affirm that Psylocke's bisexuality is a positive step, but executed poorly. The undertones here were uncomfortable. (And I do think this was a badly written plot, but it didn't come out of nowhere, it's been seeded throughout all of Krakoa in their interactions. And I think it's important to acknowledge the constraints here, in that we couldn't get as deep into Betsy's head about this when it was subtext and not yet fully approved by editorial to actually happen.)

Well then, I hope my clarifications in my second post alleviated any concerns you may have. We could have gotten this stortyline even if Psylocke had remained unchanged after 2018, and I acknowledge this. By the way, nobody has to come out and say that her reaffirmed bisexuality is a positive step towards anything; as long as it doesn't interfere with her past with Angel, I'm completely indifferent to it.

And yes, it did come out of nowhere. Betsy had had way more compelling interactions with Rachel during the third Claremont era and Claremont had to cope with a far more extended cast at the time. If Tini Howard -who gets systematically roasted for not being able to piece together two well-paced scenes in one issue- considers herself a serious writer, she has to invest effort in order to make a romance she's pushing for into a natural development. Naming editorial "constraints" and what not as an excuse for so many holes in her writing is laughable at this point.

[gonnagiveittoya]

The fuck is going on in here

[CGAR]

Gay stuff? Bi stuff? pan stuff? who knows.

Betsy will always be Queen B though <3

[MentalManipulator]

Gay stuff? Bi stuff? pan stuff? who knows.

Betsy will always be Queen B though <3

Right? hehe

As a gay man myself, I'm always happy when characters explore their sexuality. And I think Rachel and Betsy make sense as Bi. But....

I really hate HOW this was done. The execution felt superficial and one-sided. The little hints were kind of forced.

And personally, I always preferred the idea of them as friends. Let Rachel be with Kitty, her true love. On the other hand, if Betsy and Saturnyne turned to have a thing in this run, it would make much more sense to me, seeing their tension could be reinterpreted as a sexual one.

[crimsontt]

I’m gay and I get to know a LOT of homophobic gay guys, specially towards homosexual women. So I hope mine is the last post starting with “I’m gay and…”

It’s not a validation to the point we are trying to get here.

There was a time when I thought betsy’s often depicted intense and pragmatic sexual energy toward men was an interesting aspect
of her character because back in the 90’s society, this was a badass inversion of gender roles. When betsy first came out as bi with cluster, I remember getting a bit upset concerned how a lasting relationship with another woman would keep her from displaying this recurring trait of her personality. I mean it was amazing to see an alpha male stereotype like cyclops gasping with betsy’s flirtations, betsy’s alleging that her first night with phantomex was to simply satisfy her curiosity. I personally like when straight guys don’t get the upperhand in their relationships with women. Perhaps I read it as reparation.

The betsy-cluster relationship didn’t last and soon betsy was making a not so subtle move on cable, a classic macho stereotype cornered by betsy. So one thing didn’t erase another.

And what I like about betsy is her flirtation energy is always so high, even when she was with warren she was flirting with neal, phantomex… that’s why I rather have her as the adventuring one, perhaps in a open relationship, no matter whether with a man or a woman.

I agree rachel and betsy feels weird because of betsy’s big sis vibes to rachel, and I also agree it felt sudden and poorly written… how deeply I care about this? Nothing at all.
I support both of them as bisexuals
I still think of warren as my first choice for betsy, but I’d love them in a open relationship


Forget this. We should be praying for Tini’s era to end.

[MentalManipulator]

I’m gay and I get to know a LOT of homophobic gay guys, specially towards homosexual women. So I hope mine is the last post starting with “I’m gay and…”

It’s not a validation to the point we are trying to get here.

There was a time when I thought betsy’s often depicted intense and pragmatic sexual energy toward men was an interesting aspect
of her character because back in the 90’s society, this was a badass inversion of gender roles. When betsy first came out as bi with cluster, I remember getting a bit upset concerned how a lasting relationship with another woman would keep her from displaying this recurring trait of her personality. I mean it was amazing to see an alpha male stereotype like cyclops gasping with betsy’s flirtations, betsy’s alleging that her first night with phantomex was to simply satisfy her curiosity. I personally like when straight guys don’t get the upperhand in their relationships with women. Perhaps I read it as reparation.

The betsy-cluster relationship didn’t last and soon betsy was making a not so subtle move on cable, a classic macho stereotype cornered by betsy. So one thing didn’t erase another.

And what I like about betsy is her flirtation energy is always so high, even when she was with warren she was flirting with neal, phantomex… that’s why I rather have her as the adventuring one, perhaps in a open relationship, no matter whether with a man or a woman.

I agree rachel and betsy feels weird because of betsy’s big sis vibes to rachel, and I also agree it felt sudden and poorly written… how deeply I care about this? Nothing at all.
I support both of them as bisexuals
I still think of warren as my first choice for betsy, but I’d love them in a open relationship


Forget this. We should be praying for Tini’s era to end.

I hope you're not implying my post had any homophobic connotations in it, because it did not. I'm criticizing the writing, the execution and the fan shipping of it all, not the characters being BI.

[sublimeclown]

I’m gay and I get to know a LOT of homophobic gay guys, specially towards homosexual women. So I hope mine is the last post starting with “I’m gay and…”

It’s not a validation to the point we are trying to get here.

There was a time when I thought betsy’s often depicted intense and pragmatic sexual energy toward men was an interesting aspect
of her character because back in the 90’s society, this was a badass inversion of gender roles. When betsy first came out as bi with cluster, I remember getting a bit upset concerned how a lasting relationship with another woman would keep her from displaying this recurring trait of her personality. I mean it was amazing to see an alpha male stereotype like cyclops gasping with betsy’s flirtations, betsy’s alleging that her first night with phantomex was to simply satisfy her curiosity. I personally like when straight guys don’t get the upperhand in their relationships with women. Perhaps I read it as reparation.

The betsy-cluster relationship didn’t last and soon betsy was making a not so subtle move on cable, a classic macho stereotype cornered by betsy. So one thing didn’t erase another.

And what I like about betsy is her flirtation energy is always so high, even when she was with warren she was flirting with neal, phantomex… that’s why I rather have her as the adventuring one, perhaps in a open relationship, no matter whether with a man or a woman.

I agree rachel and betsy feels weird because of betsy’s big sis vibes to rachel, and I also agree it felt sudden and poorly written… how deeply I care about this? Nothing at all.
I support both of them as bisexuals
I still think of warren as my first choice for betsy, but I’d love them in a open relationship


Forget this. We should be praying for Tini’s era to end.

This is 100% how I feel.

[WallStreeter]

I thought 90s Betsy was horrible. I liked the pre ninja Betsy. Whether it was magical transformation or body swap, her being a ninja was just cheap. And all the tits and ass poses were disgusting. And that time they doing ridiculous things like basically all a woman had to do is take off her clothes and she was a martial artists. I didn’t really like merged Betsy until she returned during Sisterhood. After all she went through in Exiles and her killing slaymaster, it finally felt like she trike earned being a physical fighter. Still, I was happy to see her return to her original body and Kwannon comes back to life in her own body.

[DarkMagnus]

And Im kinda surprised because Tini build this relationship of nowhere. Betsy and Rachel were friends who havent show that kinda of atraction. Like some poster say. Why not with Kitty?

Not having a problem with a Gay or bi Psylocke but Tini writes stuff that dont have necesary a base. like that weird affection of Rogue for Betsy. i mean yeah they are friend but cleary not besties.