Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2022

[CGAR]

I’m gay and I get to know a LOT of homophobic gay guys, specially towards homosexual women. So I hope mine is the last post starting with “I’m gay and…”

It’s not a validation to the point we are trying to get here.

There was a time when I thought betsy’s often depicted intense and pragmatic sexual energy toward men was an interesting aspect
of her character because back in the 90’s society, this was a badass inversion of gender roles. When betsy first came out as bi with cluster, I remember getting a bit upset concerned how a lasting relationship with another woman would keep her from displaying this recurring trait of her personality. I mean it was amazing to see an alpha male stereotype like cyclops gasping with betsy’s flirtations, betsy’s alleging that her first night with phantomex was to simply satisfy her curiosity. I personally like when straight guys don’t get the upperhand in their relationships with women. Perhaps I read it as reparation.

The betsy-cluster relationship didn’t last and soon betsy was making a not so subtle move on cable, a classic macho stereotype cornered by betsy. So one thing didn’t erase another.

And what I like about betsy is her flirtation energy is always so high, even when she was with warren she was flirting with neal, phantomex… that’s why I rather have her as the adventuring one, perhaps in a open relationship, no matter whether with a man or a woman.

I agree rachel and betsy feels weird because of betsy’s big sis vibes to rachel, and I also agree it felt sudden and poorly written… how deeply I care about this? Nothing at all.
I support both of them as bisexuals
I still think of warren as my first choice for betsy, but I’d love them in a open relationship


Forget this. We should be praying for Tini’s era to end.

Well homophobic gay guys are a mess and need to work on themselves.

What people seem to forget about the Cluster relationship is that she was "in love" with a man Fantomex. No matter how brief that relationship was its canon and it did happen. And Cluster is the part that she fell "in love" with because his other personas were the obnoxious ones. Which was intriguing and would have been awesome for someone to delve into but the writer Sam Humphries did not execute that correctly at all.

No one ever taps into these stories thats why fans are able to brush it off and say things like it wasnt really there or she's never had those feelings before. Well now we have it on panel. And thats a good thing.

The Rachel/Betsy thing seems super forced to me BUT I can see how they can both be queer coded.

I honestly blame a lot of the male writers for not exploring Betsy more in depth.

[BobbysWorld]

All I'm saying is there have definitely been posts and tweets from tons of people all the way back to Rachel and Betsy's interactions in Tini's first Excalibur issues, theorizing that Howard was hinting at a possible ship between them.

Like, judge the execution of it all you want, but it is worth noting that there's a distinction between 'this came out of NOWHERE' and 'this was foreshadowed and advertised in a way a lot of people picked up on, and literally commented on in many Excalibur threads and posts, and other people chose to ignore or not acknowledge any of the posts talking about that because they just flat out didn't WANT this to be where Howard was headed and so chose to write those posters off as delusional instead.'

Willfully ignoring stuff you don't want to acknowledge and reinterpreting everything else in order to cater to your own personal preference as to what you WANT the story to be saying is a phenomenon that works both ways, funnily enough.

And for the record, I'm not saying that this applies to EVERY poster who says they didn't see this coming or thought it was out of left field, buuuuuut there's more than a few people weighing in on this recent issue where I know for damn sure they were present and actively shutting down posters who wondered if Howard was teasing a possible Betsy/Rachel ship as far back as two years ago, sooooooooo.....

There's a certain scent of bullshift wafting about some of these posts.

[Wiccan]

I'm really happy about Betsy and Rachel. While the Cluster thing was already enough to consider her bi/queer/something, it also had some plausable deniability considering the very specific situation. So to "reintroduce" her interest in women like that sort of solidifies it.

I actually haven't gotten around to read KOX yet, I haven't been caught up in comics in general, but ever since their scenes in Excalibur I could feel a bit of chemistry and subtext. I'm glad Tini was able to make it happen, cause for some people it was feeling like queerbait. So I'm glad it didn't end up like that, plus Rachel can finally be canonically sapphic too.

[WallStreeter]

I’m happy about Betsy and Rachel too. Tini definitely foreshadowed it in Excalibur. In Brian Wood’s female XMen they got to know each other.

[sublimeclown]

Here are my two cents on the Cluster romance. Betsy fell for Cluster while Cluster was male-presenting (as Fantomex). When Fantomex's brains were separated, Cluster in essence "transitioned" into a woman, but Betsy still had feelings for her obviously. To me, it's analogous to a straight woman whose husband comes out as a trans woman and decides to transition. She may stay with her wife because she loves her, even though she never would've considered herself a lesbian before, though technically now she is. Of course, this was only explored on a very surface level in the comics, and I would've loved for them to go deeper with it.

Anyway, that's why for me the Cluster romance wasn't a clear indication that Betsy was bi or even necessarily attracted to women. If she does indeed have attraction/feelings for Rachel, then that's a different story and I appreciate that being explored.

Also, I don't personally believe sleeping with a woman or even being in relationship with one automatically makes her bi (or lesbian). Sexual orientation is something each person defines for themselves and can be fluid or change with time.

[CGAR]

And thats the writers faults for not going with introspection, devling into the character and having the characters themselves say what they actually like.

With out it clearly written out people will be able to say things like the above comments.

Everyone has there own headcanon unless its officially put on panel in a comic.

[WallStreeter]

And thats the writers faults for not going with introspection, devling into the character and having the characters themselves say what they actually like.

With out it clearly written out people will be able to say things like the above comments.

Everyone has there own headcanon unless its officially put on panel in a comic.

Tini didn’t do anything wrong. The people eco see always upset have too much head canon. It’s not her job to keep every whim satisfied.

[jwatson]

Here are my two cents on the Cluster romance. Betsy fell for Cluster while Cluster was male-presenting (as Fantomex). When Fantomex's brains were separated, Cluster in essence "transitioned" into a woman, but Betsy still had feelings for her obviously. To me, it's analogous to a straight woman whose husband comes out as a trans woman and decides to transition. She may stay with her wife because she loves her, even though she never would've considered herself a lesbian before, though technically now she is. Of course, this was only explored on a very surface level in the comics, and I would've loved for them to go deeper with it.

Anyway, that's why for me the Cluster romance wasn't a clear indication that Betsy was bi or even necessarily attracted to women. If she does indeed have attraction/feelings for Rachel, then that's a different story and I appreciate that being explored.

Also, I don't personally believe sleeping with a woman or even being in relationship with one automatically makes her bi (or lesbian). Sexual orientation is something each person defines for themselves and can be fluid or change with time.

I actually agree with this. I do think the situation with cluster was more about who cluster represented or rather what than straight out an attraction to women. But then at the same time i can see most telepaths connecting beyond sexual orientation. But then i also agree with those who say they have seen them in a more older /younger mentee role but it happening i do want to see it explored. Betsy i think is much more ready for this as i think she connects more to a soul but i hope this story is sensitive to rachel who felt has always had an attraction to certain female characters like kitty which given their time and rachel age would have been her still wanting an older woman, so maybe her type. But one thing i can say is i feel the yearning from rachel. In all her male relationships especially kurt and sublime it felt to me like rachel was forcing herself. rarely smiling and going through rough things. so this is the first time i've seen rachel act comfortable having feelings for someone other than kitty in a seemingly (here confirmed) romantic wahy.

[MetalPsyc]

I always thought Betsy and Rachel have always been really close, starting from Claremont's latest UXM run, sharing multiple "ultimate intimacies", even spending time together in the white hot room. But I agree that Tini need more time to bring them "closer" to the extent of being in romance with one another. They might actually go there, but the execution felt less organic.
Now, it is what it is and I'm okay with them being together. It needs to be going somewhere than just two girls kissing; developing their characters further and possibilities for more interesting stories.

[Will Evans]

And Im kinda surprised because Tini build this relationship of nowhere. Betsy and Rachel were friends who havent show that kinda of atraction. Like some poster say. Why not with Kitty?

Not having a problem with a Gay or bi Psylocke but Tini writes stuff that dont have necesary a base. like that weird affection of Rogue for Betsy. i mean yeah they are friend but cleary not besties.

People on this very forum has been saying it was going to happen ever since Betsy have Rachel that Warwolf.

[CGAR]

Tini didn’t do anything wrong. The people eco see always upset have too much head canon. It’s not her job to keep every whim satisfied.

I said WRITERS plural because no writer has done ANYTHING with the her after the Cluster relationship.

[johnnysv75]

All I'm saying is there have definitely been posts and tweets from tons of people all the way back to Rachel and Betsy's interactions in Tini's first Excalibur issues, theorizing that Howard was hinting at a possible ship between them.

Like, judge the execution of it all you want, but it is worth noting that there's a distinction between 'this came out of NOWHERE' and 'this was foreshadowed and advertised in a way a lot of people picked up on, and literally commented on in many Excalibur threads and posts, and other people chose to ignore or not acknowledge any of the posts talking about that because they just flat out didn't WANT this to be where Howard was headed and so chose to write those posters off as delusional instead.'

Willfully ignoring stuff you don't want to acknowledge and reinterpreting everything else in order to cater to your own personal preference as to what you WANT the story to be saying is a phenomenon that works both ways, funnily enough.

And for the record, I'm not saying that this applies to EVERY poster who says they didn't see this coming or thought it was out of left field, buuuuuut there's more than a few people weighing in on this recent issue where I know for damn sure they were present and actively shutting down posters who wondered if Howard was teasing a possible Betsy/Rachel ship as far back as two years ago, sooooooooo.....

There's a certain scent of bullshift wafting about some of these posts.

It may have been foreshadowed, but I think it was still poorly written. (People say that Daenerys’s descent into madness was foreshadowed in early seasons of Game of Thrones, but it was still poorly executed in the last season.)

I love Betsy and Rachel as a couple (but Rachel and Kitty are endgame). I love that two prominent characters are (hopefully) bisexual. I love that queer writers get to write prominent titles like the X-books. I love most of Tini’s ideas. But she is not a very good writer and I wish we had gotten a better build-up to this.

[BobbysWorld]

It may have been foreshadowed, but I think it was still poorly written. (People say that Daenerys’s descent into madness was foreshadowed in early seasons of Game of Thrones, but it was still poorly executed in the last season.)

I love Betsy and Rachel as a couple (but Rachel and Kitty are endgame). I love that two prominent characters are (hopefully) bisexual. I love that queer writers get to write prominent titles like the X-books. I love most of Tini’s ideas. But she is not a very good writer and I wish we had gotten a better build-up to this.

I mean, to be clear I'm not disputing that at all. I def don't think the execution was particularly compelling either. That comment was aimed at people who are acting like this was some kind of last minute swerve nobody could have possibly seen coming, when like, the fact that multiple people have repeatedly been talking about seeing this coming for a couple years now does IMO at a certain point suggest various people who act like they were blindsided were just as invested in IGNORING this as a possibility just because they DIDN'T want it to be true.....as people often accuse fans of just reading too much into things out of wish fulfillment.

[PoP]

I never liked Rachel. I hate when straight characters suddenly become gay in film & tv. BUT the one woman I would love to see Betsy have a relationship with is KWANNON! That would be so fun and dramatic.

[MentalManipulator]

It may have been foreshadowed, but I think it was still poorly written. (People say that Daenerys’s descent into madness was foreshadowed in early seasons of Game of Thrones, but it was still poorly executed in the last season.)

I love Betsy and Rachel as a couple (but Rachel and Kitty are endgame). I love that two prominent characters are (hopefully) bisexual. I love that queer writers get to write prominent titles like the X-books. I love most of Tini’s ideas. But she is not a very good writer and I wish we had gotten a better build-up to this.

100 % this!

On another subject, would you guys like to see Betsy in the new cartoon? In which capacity? as 90's ninja? caucasian Psylocke? Captain Britain? other?