Jace Fox: Batman Appreciation 2022

[Vordan]

To be honest that feels good from a character perspective but could come off making Jace seem a little unlikable if they don't handle it right.

But he has, like, no real place in the Batfamily.

Plenty of people aren’t going to like the concept of anyone being Batman except Bruce (and Terry in Batman Beyond circumstances). Besides the edges to Jace are what make him interesting. Sand those off and he’ll be boring, if you want a “nice” Fox family member who is on good terms with Bruce, that’s Luke’s lane. Jace needs to be on the outs with the Gotham Batfamily to work.

Don't know, I think a character should either be part of the Batfamily or not use the Batlogo/-name.

The problem with Jace being part of the Bruce Batfamily is:

1. That family is too big. Already you have everyone stepping on each other’s toes. I mean what the hell really differentiates Damian and Jason nowadays? Both are dark and edgy boys who are tempted to use lethal force but don’t because they want Daddy to be proud of them. Tim is completely overshadowed by everyone else because “bland self-insert” doesn’t hold up compared to how cool Dick, Jason, and Damian are, so they made him the gay one to give him something. They turned Babs into Steph for the Burnside era. You make Jace part of that, he isn’t going to stand on his own two feet because every character personality type imaginable is already present in the Batfamily. All that’s left is to be the guy who appropriates their brand but does his own thing without their approval.

2. Nightwing’s inability to stand on his own is because his runs keep getting derailed by having to tie into Bruce’s bullshit. You make Jace part of Bruce’s family, now he’s subordinate to Bruce in the pecking order, he’s going to be constantly reacting to whatever the storyline in Bruce’s book is.

3. Jace being Batman is always going to be weird if he’s part of the Family because why does he have the mantle when Bruce is still around? Why doesn’t Dick, or Tim, or Damian take it? Why not Luke or Duke? You’d have to make one hell of a contrivance to justify why the newcomer gets to be Batman over any of the guys who have “earned” it. Jace only works if he’s Batman because he’s the one who decided he wanted that role and just took it, Bruce and the rest of the Batfamily be damned.

[OOPS]

And all of that is why people like me don't like the character and won't read a book with him in it. He stole someone's hard earned legacy because it was easier than earning his own reputation and identity. Then instead of honoring the legacy and the person and family that sacrificed to build it, arrogantly knocks them.

It makes the character unlikable. And frankly not very bright to have stolen the legacy of a man, with even bothering to research WHO he was robbing.

I don't mean to bash the character, but if you want the character to have broader appeal, and sell enough books to be financially viable (something that is going to be more important as we enter rescession)recession, those negative will need to be addressed.

As far as Nightwing's weaknesses, the character is featured in a consistently top selling run (even if I don't care for the run), is flexible enough to be featured in at least 5 other books simultaneously, one of which has been in the top 5 DC sales. That's the benefit of having a likable character. Nit only does the main character sale, the character helps sell other books.

[Aahz]

The problem with Jace being part of the Bruce Batfamily is:

If he is not part of the Batfamily or Batman Inc. he should not use the name on the long run.

2. Nightwing’s inability to stand on his own is because his runs keep getting derailed by having to tie into Bruce’s bullshit. You make Jace part of Bruce’s family, now he’s subordinate to Bruce in the pecking order, he’s going to be constantly reacting to whatever the storyline in Bruce’s book is.

That seems more a problem with the Nightwing Writers Editors. The other Batbooks typically don't get derailed like that, in some cases they even place the tie in issue just before or after their current arc.
And honestly with how decompressed the current runs are, It should in most cases easily possible to wrap arcs up before the tie ins, if they are planed far enough in advance.

3. Jace being Batman is always going to be weird if he’s part of the Family because why does he have the mantle when Bruce is still around? Why doesn’t Dick, or Tim, or Damian take it? Why not Luke or Duke? You’d have to make one hell of a contrivance to justify why the newcomer gets to be Batman over any of the guys who have “earned” it. Jace only works if he’s Batman because he’s the one who decided he wanted that role and just took it, Bruce and the rest of the Batfamily be damned.

It's wired no matter if he is part of the family or not, for him to just take up the name.

[NOCTPHOENIX]

With regards to sales and popularity how is Jace faring so far?

[J. D. Guy]

Why is Jace's Appreciation Thread the one that constantly sees people sashaying in to voice their disappreciation for the character and his role via derailment, disdain, and outright slander?

Aren't their Appreciation Thread rules against this? Because Jace has been around for more than a fair amount of time, and we've been getting this targeted dissension against the character in his and the Fox Family Appreciation Threads since last year now. Most other threads wouldn't have let this repeated act be sustained for this long. :/

[Morgoth]

With regards to sales and popularity how is Jace faring so far?

https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...2/2022-04.html
His book currently is lowest selling ongoing, if we take out of equation already closed books in this list.

[Vordan]

Why is Jace's Appreciation Thread the one that constantly sees people sashaying in to voice their disappreciation for the character and his role via derailment, disdain, and outright slander?

Aren't their Appreciation Thread rules against this? Because Jace has been around for more than a fair amount of time, and we've been getting this targeted dissension against the character in his and the Fox Family Appreciation Threads since last year now. Most other threads wouldn't have let this repeated act be sustained for this long. :/

Report the posts.

[Rac7d*]

Why is Jace's Appreciation Thread the one that constantly sees people sashaying in to voice their disappreciation for the character and his role via derailment, disdain, and outright slander?

Aren't their Appreciation Thread rules against this? Because Jace has been around for more than a fair amount of time, and we've been getting this targeted dissension against the character in his and the Fox Family Appreciation Threads since last year now. Most other threads wouldn't have let this repeated act be sustained for this long. :/

That’s sounds like all appreciation threads when somone isn’t satisfied with the route of the character

[Superboy-Prime]

And all of that is why people like me don't like the character and won't read a book with him in it. He stole someone's hard earned legacy because it was easier than earning his own reputation and identity. Then instead of honoring the legacy and the person and family that sacrificed to build it, arrogantly knocks them.

It makes the character unlikable. And frankly not very bright to have stolen the legacy of a man, with even bothering to research WHO he was robbing.

I don't mean to bash the character, but if you want the character to have broader appeal, and sell enough books to be financially viable (something that is going to be more important as we enter rescession)recession, those negative will need to be addressed.

As far as Nightwing's weaknesses, the character is featured in a consistently top selling run (even if I don't care for the run), is flexible enough to be featured in at least 5 other books simultaneously, one of which has been in the top 5 DC sales. That's the benefit of having a likable character. Nit only does the main character sale, the character helps sell other books.

If you don't like the character and won't read his book, why are you in his Appreciation Thread? Anyways, all that stuff sounds like... Obvious character development John Ridley is going to address anyways.

[skyvolt2000]

That’s sounds like all appreciation threads when someone isn’t satisfied with the route of the character

One MAJOR difference.....

Someone who is not enjoying the book has READ the book. So you have something to base a concern on.

What we keep seeing especially with black characters and in this case Jace is a disgust for him existing. And it's not limited to here by in a LOT of threads.

It makes the character unlikable. And frankly not very bright to have stolen the legacy of a man, with even bothering to research WHO he was robbing.

Guess you don't like Monica Rambeau. She did it and it was 12 years before it was dealt with by Cap Marvel's son.

Dr Doom did it when he took Iron Man's armor and called himself Ironman while Riri Williams got called EVERYTHING in the book and she did not call herself Ironman.
In fact Rhodey did it too for a different reason.
Eli Bradley?? Patriot was not his grandad's name.
Huntress running around as Batgirl?
Superman did approve of Matrix calling herself Supergirl.
Aqualad? He just took that name after Tempest dumped it.
The Miles Morales era of Champions? Dr Strange, Hulk and the gang have not throw a fit about it.
Great Lake Avengers just took the Avenger name.
Miles Morales did NOT ask for permission to be Spider-Man
Nor Kamala Khan.
Nor Power Man 2
Nor Jason Rusch
How many characters have had other folks in those roles that did not ask?

[Twice-named]

When you put something into the public realm, you run the risk of people taking it and doing their own thing with it. Perhaps this is an obscure example and probably because I was listening to them today but take Ian MacKaye and Minor Threat. Minor Threat released the songs "Straight Edge" and "Out of Step" in 1981. Though they were about how MacKaye felt personally, kids related to his lyrics and Straight Edge morphed into this whole thing across the world. So much so that, when Minor Threat put out their full-length album in 1983, they re-recorded Out of Step with MacKaye stating in the song that the lyrics weren't a set of rules for kids to follow, that the song was just about how he felt personally. But, by that time, it was too late. It took on a life of its own and, sadly, you eventually had militant Straight Edge kids who were intolerant of and violent toward people who drank and smoke. There's plenty more examples of things put in the public realm that the person(s) who put it there lost control of.

What does this have to do with Bruce and Jace? Well, Bruce put Batman into the public realm. In doing so, he ran the risk that someone would identify with what he was doing, adopt it, and do their own thing with it.

[sifighter]

When you put something into the public realm, you run the risk of people taking it and doing their own thing with it. Perhaps this is an obscure example and probably because I was listening to them today but take Ian MacKaye and Minor Threat. Minor Threat released the songs "Straight Edge" and "Out of Step" in 1981. Though they were about how MacKaye felt personally, kids related to his lyrics and Straight Edge morphed into this whole thing across the world. So much so that, when Minor Threat put out their full-length album in 1983, they re-recorded Out of Step with MacKaye stating in the song that the lyrics weren't a set of rules for kids to follow, that the song was just about how he felt personally. But, by that time, it was too late. It took on a life of its own and, sadly, you eventually had militant Straight Edge kids who were intolerant of and violent toward people who drank and smoke. There's plenty more examples of things put in the public realm that the person(s) who put it there lost control of.

What does this have to do with Bruce and Jace? Well, Bruce put Batman into the public realm. In doing so, he ran the risk that someone would identify with what he was doing, adopt it, and do their own thing with it.

Batman Inc. comes to mind in that regard

[Felipe Silveira]

With regards to sales and popularity how is Jace faring so far?

Hard to say because we don't have numbers

In February, #26
Captura de Tela (836).jpg

So in March it drops to 43
Captura de Tela (837).jpg

And in April it goes up to 35
Captura de Tela (838).jpg

I believe the comic sells as expected.

[Vordan]

That went about as well as expected. Wonder what will change Jace’s mind?

[Fergus]

One MAJOR difference.....

Someone who is not enjoying the book has READ the book. So you have something to base a concern on.

What we keep seeing especially with black characters and in this case Jace is a disgust for him existing. And it's not limited to here by in a LOT of threads.

Also happens in th Damian Wayne thread, where some straight up just pop in to mock, explain why they don't like the character or state they wish he'd stayed dead.

Tim and Duke also get a fair amount of negative posts on their thread.

Someone should add a notification that negative/non constructive posts aren't allowed on this thread.