Bruce Banner, The Incredible Hulk Appreciation 2022

[Lukmendes]

Read New FF 3. PAD is taking liberties of Marvel continuity as not only is Fixit still working for the casino but still has Marlo as his gf. I mean, didn't they break up in the Werewolf issue and he wandering around the country in late 89. before Danny Ketch became Ghost Rider around early 90. also Doctor Strange made a appearance and said the X-MEN were one of the teams they contacted, shouldn't the X-MEN is presumed dead. then again, this might be post X-tinction agenda when the X-MEN were revealed on alive. Still, by that time, Fixit/Bruce would reunited with Betty and Marlo would have started going out with Rick. man, kinda of a headache. Either Pad taken liberties or forgotten his own continuity. Yeah the first new FF story happened in early 91. Right before Fixit/Savage/Bruce merged. Also, PAD seem to have made Ghost Rider have a sense of humor I don't remember him having, reading the entire 90s Howard Mackie run.

New FF takes place right after FF #349 tho. Wouldn't that only affect the X-Men stuff?

Checking dates here, UXM#272 talked about X-Men being around, and that came out a month before F4#349.

The Marlo thing though, that is a plot hole, since the werewolf issue was Incredible Hulk#362, over an year before New Fantastic Four, and I'll assume he stopped working on the casino significantly earlier lol.

It's hilarious to me how everyone complains about constant jokes.

I remember plenty of humor in Peter David's Hulk. He, and Marvel at large, understand that you can't relentlessly rise tension in a story, Viewers need to breathe.

Otherwise, we end up with crap like Snyder.

Though in the case of the last two Thors, yeah, a little too far.

Difference is that Peter David knows when to make jokes, when to not, and how to make actually funny jokes lol.

Not that this means it's always good, sometimes the characters are being too quippy with bad jokes and it gets annoying, but he generally had a better sense of timing.

This sucks man. You’re really lecturing Bruce Banner of all people on this?

Who wrote this? Aaron?

Edit: Thinking of it, while I don't think MCU Banner suffered nearly as much as comics Banner, he still was hunted by the government, and kidnapped to fight in Sakaar, and the writing's seriously saying dealing with creeps and men who undermine her intelligence is as bad? Damn, this really sounds like Aaron.

[Intothevoid]

Having read the last chapter of Banner of War (Haven't read the whole thing) is Hulk and Thors fights in Immortal Hulk ever brought up? Hulk badly humiliated him twice, although he was dealing with Devil and Joe there, not the current status quo of Banner, Savage and whatever Titan is.

I am not sure Cates is even fully aware of those fights. In preparation for his Banner of War Hulk vs Thor event, a fan asked Cates what he thought about the famous Hulk/Thor fight that Stan Lee wrote in Thor 385 where Hulk uses a woman as a hostage and throws a train at Thor and Cates says he doesn't know the fight but thought it sounds cool.

That's the kind of writer Cates is, he doesn't do any actual research on the stuff he writes, even though his last Banner of War issue makes a definitive answer how no other fight before it matters really.

It actually infuriates me how writers like Ewing went through Hulks ENTIRE HISTORY, every single issue(TWICE OVER) when he was doing Immortal Hulk, but Cates even be bothered to tell his editor to collect him every major, cannon Hulk and Thor fight to research them, maybe even throw in a cool nod here and there that fans would recognize, he just doesn't care.

[GreenScar1990]

Ultimately, here is my thoughts, the truth and facts of HULK #8 and the BANNER OF WAR event in general.

1) Banner was in control, not the Hulk. When Savage Hulk faced Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor, not only did he take everything Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor dished out, but he ate it like candy, overpowered and knocked Hulked-Out Thor on his ass, leaving him stunned and staggered until Sif tried to take him away with the bifrost.

2) Banner and Odin wanted to cure Thor, to help him rid himself of his Gamma infection. They didn't want to kill him.

3) Worthy Hulk, while holding back, was able to knock back Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor with one arm.

4) Banner didn't want to amp Hulk's rage or power. Nor did he want Hulk in control. He feared and knew Titan would emerge, kill Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor, and everything else that dared to stand in his way. Not only did Banner know this, but so did Odin himself, who feared for his son's life. Neither wishing to allow an unleashed Hulk out to potentially let out Titan and kill Thor, Odin allowed Banner to be worthy of Mjolnir in hopes of saving and curing his son without killing him.

5) Beta Ray Bill never once fought or met Hulk in the comics. He literally knows nothing about him. So his words hold absolutely no weight at all. Because if he knew Hulk, he'd also know that Banner/Hulk always hold back regardless of who they're facing or which Alter/Persona/Incarnation is in control. In short, Beta Ray Bill was talking out his ass.

6) There was no true winner in this fight at all. It was clearly a draw. Despite what some idiots say or believe.

7) Hulk was definitely holding back, as you can easily tell Banner is in control and calm while fighting. If Hulk, even when Banner is controlling him, were in trouble from Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor, Titan would have came out and swiftly ended him. That alone proves that Banner-controlled Hulk wasn't overwhelmed or in any real danger.

8) Thor has NEVER faced any of the more powerful versions of The Hulk. He's never faced The Green Scar, let alone the planet-busting, Dark Dimension destroying Worldbreaker Hulk. He's never faced the draconic, unleashed Devil Hulk. He's never faced the Multiverse annihilating Breaker of Worlds. And he's never faced Titan.

9) Thor not only possessed the full Odinforce, but was amped up by Gamma in his Hulked-Out form. It felt like Cates had to really go the extra mile to amp up Thor just to face the Hulk, and not even one of the most powerful versions/incarnations/alters/personas of the Hulk on top of that. I find it odd that Cates failed to mention the fact that Hulk always holds back regardless of who he's facing or which alter is in control. Think he'll mention it in HULK #9? Eh, probably not. His bias and potential lack of knowledge on Hulk, whether it be his power or lore/mythology, is quite evident.

[GreenScar1990]

I am not sure Cates is even fully aware of those fights. In preparation for his Banner of War Hulk vs Thor event, a fan asked Cates what he thought about the famous Hulk/Thor fight that Stan Lee wrote in Thor 385 where Hulk uses a woman as a hostage and throws a train at Thor and Cates says he doesn't know the fight but thought it sounds cool.

That's the kind of writer Cates is, he doesn't do any actual research on the stuff he writes, even though his last Banner of War issue makes a definitive answer how no other fight before it matters really.

It actually infuriates me how writers like Ewing went through Hulks ENTIRE HISTORY, every single issue(TWICE OVER) when he was doing Immortal Hulk, but Cates even be bothered to tell his editor to collect him every major, cannon Hulk and Thor fight to research them, maybe even throw in a cool nod here and there that fans would recognize, he just doesn't care.

It is truly sad that most writers just don't care or even try to do some research. It's also majorly disappointing that Cates first 2 Hulk arcs were incredibly underwhelming. If the 3rd arc, HULK PLANET, fails to impress I think not only will Hulk fans drop the series but Marvel Execs might consider dropping Cates from the series. Assuming, of course, he doesn't depart soon after the 3rd arc.

I still firmly believe Kieron Gillen should have been the ultimate 1st choice to write the Hulk and follow-up on Al Ewing's run. Much like Ewing, he's a continuity buff, but he also knows how to deliver epic action akin to the best of Greg Pak and PAD's. Massive missed opportunity and a huge mistep for Marvel Execs for not putting on a more experienced, creative, passionate writer on the title who loves the character and does his research.

[GreenScar1990]

[Frontier]

Who wrote this? Aaron?

Edit: Thinking of it, while I don't think MCU Banner suffered nearly as much as comics Banner, he still was hunted by the government, and kidnapped to fight in Sakaar, and the writing's seriously saying dealing with creeps and men who undermine her intelligence is as bad? Damn, this really sounds like Aaron.

It was kind of like the Aaron line in that issue where he tried to justify his She-Hulk, but overall I think the episode handled it a bit better.

It is truly sad that most writers just don't care or even try to do some research. It's also majorly disappointing that Cates first 2 Hulk arcs were incredibly underwhelming. If the 3rd arc, HULK PLANET, fails to impress I think not only will Hulk fans drop the series but Marvel Execs might consider dropping Cates from the series. Assuming, of course, he doesn't depart soon after the 3rd arc.

I still firmly believe Kieron Gillen should have been the ultimate 1st choice to write the Hulk and follow-up on Al Ewing's run. Much like Ewing, he's a continuity buff, but he also knows how to deliver epic action akin to the best of Greg Pak and PAD's. Massive missed opportunity and a huge mistep for Marvel Execs for not putting on a more experienced, creative, passionate writer on the title who loves the character and does his research.

I'm not sure if the Hulk is that much on Gillen's radar.

[ChrisIII]

Ultimately, here is my thoughts, the truth and facts of HULK #8 and the BANNER OF WAR event in general.

1) Banner was in control, not the Hulk. When Savage Hulk faced Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor, not only did he take everything Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor dished out, but he ate it like candy, overpowered and knocked Hulked-Out Thor on his ass, leaving him stunned and staggered until Sif tried to take him away with the bifrost.

2) Banner and Odin wanted to cure Thor, to help him rid himself of his Gamma infection. They didn't want to kill him.

3) Worthy Hulk, while holding back, was able to knock back Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor with one arm.

4) Banner didn't want to amp Hulk's rage or power. Nor did he want Hulk in control. He feared and knew Titan would emerge, kill Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor, and everything else that dared to stand in his way. Not only did Banner know this, but so did Odin himself, who feared for his son's life. Neither wishing to allow an unleashed Hulk out to potentially let out Titan and kill Thor, Odin allowed Banner to be worthy of Mjolnir in hopes of saving and curing his son without killing him.

5) Beta Ray Bill never once fought or met Hulk in the comics. He literally knows nothing about him. So his words hold absolutely no weight at all. Because if he knew Hulk, he'd also know that Banner/Hulk always hold back regardless of who they're facing or which Alter/Persona/Incarnation is in control. In short, Beta Ray Bill was talking out his ass.

6) There was no true winner in this fight at all. It was clearly a draw. Despite what some idiots say or believe.

7) Hulk was definitely holding back, as you can easily tell Banner is in control and calm while fighting. If Hulk, even when Banner is controlling him, were in trouble from Hulked-Out Odinforce Thor, Titan would have came out and swiftly ended him. That alone proves that Banner-controlled Hulk wasn't overwhelmed or in any real danger.

8) Thor has NEVER faced any of the more powerful versions of The Hulk. He's never faced The Green Scar, let alone the planet-busting, Dark Dimension destroying Worldbreaker Hulk. He's never faced the draconic, unleashed Devil Hulk. He's never faced the Multiverse annihilating Breaker of Worlds. And he's never faced Titan.

9) Thor not only possessed the full Odinforce, but was amped up by Gamma in his Hulked-Out form. It felt like Cates had to really go the extra mile to amp up Thor just to face the Hulk, and not even one of the most powerful versions/incarnations/alters/personas of the Hulk on top of that. I find it odd that Cates failed to mention the fact that Hulk always holds back regardless of who he's facing or which alter is in control. Think he'll mention it in HULK #9? Eh, probably not. His bias and potential lack of knowledge on Hulk, whether it be his power or lore/mythology, is quite evident.

Thor did fight the Devil Hulk. He pretty much gave him the name again, although it wasn't confirmed he was the same entity from Jenkin's run until Samson showed up.

[GreenScar1990]

Thor did fight the Devil Hulk. He pretty much gave him the name again, although it wasn't confirmed he was the same entity from Jenkin's run until Samson showed up.

It was kind of like the Aaron line in that issue where he tried to justify his She-Hulk, but overall I think the episode handled it a bit better.

I'm not sure if the Hulk is that much on Gillen's radar.

I was actually referring to Devil Hulk in his true, unleashed form like in the mindscape that could have manifested in the real world but unfortunately Banner, Savage and Joe prevented this from happening. I was hoping we would see it sometime in Ewing's run, but alas it came to an end and here we are.

Actually, Gillen has expressed interest in the past with Hulk or any character with a rich lore, especially if it's unique or bizarre. And, he did the heavy lifting on the mini-series, Original Sin: Hulk vs. Iron Man, which was one of the few good things to come out of Waid's utterly boring and underwhelming run.

[Vordan]

Didn’t know Gillen had expressed interest in Hulk. Undecided personally on whether he’d be a good fit or not. I can see him playing up the “nerd” aspects of Bruce in a way that get annoying fast, but I could also see him bringing an equal level of worldbuilding to the title as Ewing did.

[Tendrin]

So, it looks like the thing that caused El Paso to happen is now in Asgard. I wonder if that was what its whole game plan was? We'll find out soon enough.

[Intothevoid]

So, it looks like the thing that caused El Paso to happen is now in Asgard. I wonder if that was what its whole game plan was? We'll find out soon enough.

100% this plot point gets forgotten. And it would be a good thing, i have no fucking idea why Cates would push Titan onto Asgard, i dont want Hulk stuff to be resolved with Asgards involvement.

[Tendrin]

100% this plot point gets forgotten. And it would be a good thing, i have no fucking idea why Cates would push Titan onto Asgard, i dont want Hulk stuff to be resolved with Asgards involvement.

... Yeah, I'm sure the guy who's writing both books would deliver something into Asgard and totally not follow up on it in the same book at all. And whatever that thing is, it is *not* itself Titan.

[Intothevoid]

... Yeah, I'm sure the guy who's writing both books would deliver something into Asgard and totally not follow up on it in the same book at all. And whatever that thing is, it is *not* itself Titan.

It wouldn't be the first or last plot point he abandoned, besides there is a good chance he will be off the book before that's ever resolved. Ryan Ottley is already jumping ship in a few more issues and they have yet to announce his replacement.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Incredible Hulk #404
“Disarray, Thataway”
Cover Date: April 1993
Sale Date: February 16th, 1993
Writer: Peter David
Artist: Gary Frank
Inker: Cam Smith
Letterer: Joe Rosen
Colorist: Glynis Oliver
Editor: Bobbie Chase
Guest Stars/Supporting Cast: The Avengers, Rick Jones, Betty Banner, Marlo Chandler, Doc Samson.
Villain: Red Skull, Juggernaut, Mentallo.
Synopsis: The Hulk, under the control of Mentallo, is helping the Juggernaut battle the Avengers. Mentally, Bruce is seeing his father order him to take out various versions of himself, but in the real world, it’s the Juggernaut. Cut to Reno, where Betty is grocery shopping and inquires about what the green sticker represents on a giant turkey she’s looking at. The associate says it was some government experiment, claiming it was treated with gamma rays to make it bigger. She curses and walks away. A disheveled Rick is still trying to bring Marlo out of her comatose state and is surprised to find her brother’s knocking at the door and wanting to take her home. Back in the Amazon, the battle rages on, and we see another glimpse of the Project Piecemeal scientist and more interaction between the Red Skull and Mentallo. At one point, Juggernaut praises the Hulk, which causes a break in Mentallo’s control. The control resumes as Crystal is able to momentarily give the Avengers a break. In Reno, we see Betty and Doc Samson arriving at the same time as Rick is kicking Marlo’s brothers out the door. Back in the Amazon, Juggernaut is heaping more praise on Bruce, which is starting to break the brainwash. He confronts his “father” about wanting praise and encouragement and is finally able to break free. The feedback causes a giant wave of psychic backlash, which takes out the Avengers, Juggernaut, the Skull, Mentallo, etc. Sometime later, as the Hulk and Avengers take their leave, we see the Skull holding a meeting with various N.W.O. members about the latest events. He’s interrupted by the Piecemeal scientist, who states that the creature has escaped. The Skull shoots him dead, exclaiming that they’ve experienced a small setback.
Commentary: I do believe this is the first interaction between the Hulk and the Red Skull, and for the life of me, I can’t remember where this N.W.O. storyline came from. Was it a subplot running in Captain America? I dropped Cap when Rom Lim left and never fully picked back up afterwards, so I wasn’t caught up on what was going on in his book. Wasn’t a fan of the running gag of the Vision getting taken out every other page. And the plotline about the gamma chicken…I don’t remember if any kind of follow-up was made or not. Decent issue and Frank is showing his chops in both action and quiet moments. His Merged Hulk is definitely bulky too.

[Tendrin]

It wouldn't be the first or last plot point he abandoned, besides there is a good chance he will be off the book before that's ever resolved. Ryan Ottley is already jumping ship in a few more issues and they have yet to announce his replacement.

Oh brother.