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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    Anyone ever read any of the X-Men novels from the 90s? I just finished Jewels of Cyttorak and it was decent. Remy had a large role and it dealt with Guild stuff (and tied into the comics at the time). It also has one of the funniest covers I've seen in a while:


    Attachment 117329


    Anyone know of any others that are any good that involve Gambit?
    Man, haven't thought about those in ages, but there were some fun ones. Also interesting to me is how many of them did stuff the comics only tried years and years after them. Like, the Mutant Empire trilogy of novels in the 90s had Juggernaut working alongside the X-Men for most of the third book, almost a decade before anyone ever entertained using him on an X-Men lineup. I think a lot of writers took a bunch of inspiration from various tie-in novels, and its kinda interesting to go back and see where various things from the comics mirror events from the books, which had more freedom to just....do whatever, without worrying editorial would shut a plot down because of how it would impact other Marvel franchises.

    But in regards to your question, don't quote me cuz its literally been years since I read most of these, but I remember the Mutant Empire trilogy having some great Remy moments. There was another stand-alone called Smoke & Mirrors, that featured Sinister as the primary antagonist, and tbh I can't remember off the top of my head how extensively Remy figured into that one, as it was less about exploring Sinister's past history with the X-Men and more just him being his lovely mad scientist self and experimenting on these new OC mutants created by the book's author and that the X-Men were trying to rescue from him. There was also a trilogy who's title I'm totally blanking on right now, but it was actually a three-novel crossover between the X-Men and Avengers, and involved classic Hulk villain The Leader kidnapping Rogue, Wolverine and Wanda due to some scheme he had about how he could combine their powers in a way that would definitely let him succeed in taking over the world for real this time. There were a lot of good moments in that trilogy, I feel like, particularly because we don't often get to see the X-Men face off against gamma-based threats like the Hulk's villain gallery.

    Also there was a trilogy that crossed over the X-Men with Spider-Man, that one was called Time's Arrows, I think, and it involved them having to stop some time traveling villain from shaking the timeline like an Etch-a-sketch or whatever. Your usual paradox shenanigans.

    But the various novels didn't have a single consistent lineup of X-Men, it tended to be at the discretion of the individual author, like Smoke & Mirrors is the only one I can remember having Betsy in it, and Bobby was only in the Mutant Empire trilogy, etc....but because all those books were released throughout the 90s, when the animated show's lineup reined supreme, I'm pretty sure the core cast of the cartoon ended up in all the books as those were the characters Marvel figured everyone was picturing when thinking of the X-Men in those days. And then characters who weren't present much in the cartoon were the ones who were add-ons in some books but not present in others, based on the preference of each novel's writer. But as far as I can remember, Rogue, Remy, Scott, Jean, Ororo, Hank and Logan were main characters in all the novels I can think of.
    Last edited by BobbysWorld; 01-13-2022 at 09:44 PM.

  2. #47
    Incredible Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    Man, haven't thought about those in ages, but there were some fun ones. Also interesting to me is how many of them did stuff the comics only tried years and years after them. Like, the Mutant Empire trilogy of novels in the 90s had Juggernaut working alongside the X-Men for most of the third book, almost a decade before anyone ever entertained using him on an X-Men lineup. I think a lot of writers took a bunch of inspiration from various tie-in novels, and its kinda interesting to go back and see where various things from the comics mirror events from the books, which had more freedom to just....do whatever, without worrying editorial would shut a plot down because of how it would impact other Marvel franchises.

    But in regards to your question, don't quote me cuz its literally been years since I read most of these, but I remember the Mutant Empire trilogy having some great Remy moments. There was another stand-alone called Smoke & Mirrors, that featured Sinister as the primary antagonist, and tbh I can't remember off the top of my head how extensively Remy figured into that one, as it was less about exploring Sinister's past history with the X-Men and more just him being his lovely mad scientist self and experimenting on these new OC mutants created by the book's author and that the X-Men were trying to rescue from him. There was also a trilogy who's title I'm totally blanking on right now, but it was actually a three-novel crossover between the X-Men and Avengers, and involved classic Hulk villain The Leader kidnapping Rogue, Wolverine and Wanda due to some scheme he had about how he could combine their powers in a way that would definitely let him succeed in taking over the world for real this time. There were a lot of good moments in that trilogy, I feel like, particularly because we don't often get to see the X-Men face off against gamma-based threats like the Hulk's villain gallery.

    Also there was a trilogy that crossed over the X-Men with Spider-Man, that one was called Time's Arrows, I think, and it involved them having to stop some time traveling villain from shaking the timeline like an Etch-a-sketch or whatever. Your usual paradox shenanigans.

    But the various novels didn't have a single consistent lineup of X-Men, it tended to be at the discretion of the individual author, like Smoke & Mirrors is the only one I can remember having Betsy in it, and Bobby was only in the Mutant Empire trilogy, etc....but because all those books were released throughout the 90s, when the animated show's lineup reined supreme, I'm pretty sure the core cast of the cartoon ended up in all the books as those were the characters Marvel figured everyone was picturing when thinking of the X-Men in those days. And then characters who weren't present much in the cartoon were the ones who were add-ons in some books but not present in others, based on the preference of each novel's writer. But as far as I can remember, Rogue, Remy, Scott, Jean, Ororo, Hank and Logan were main characters in all the novels I can think of.
    The X-Men/Avengers trilogy is Gamma Quest by Greg Cox
    Last edited by rhaenylis; 01-13-2022 at 10:43 PM.

  3. #48
    Incredible Member thjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    Anyone ever read any of the X-Men novels from the 90s? I just finished Jewels of Cyttorak and it was decent. Remy had a large role and it dealt with Guild stuff (and tied into the comics at the time). It also has one of the funniest covers I've seen in a while:


    Attachment 117329


    Anyone know of any others that are any good that involve Gambit?
    Oh man, I have and read all those old Marvel prose novels from the 90s and early 2000s. Like BobbysWorld, it has been years since I read them, but for Gambit content I would echo his recommendation of the Mutant Empire Trilogy by Michael Golden(which I think was recently re-released and did feature some good Gambit and Rogue moments in the first book especially), X-men: Smoke and Mirrors, and the Time's Arrow trilogy(which is among the best of those old novels). Other ones not mentioned by BobbysWorld that pretty heavily feature Gambit would be X-Men: Prisoner X by Ann Nocenti(Gambit, Rogue, and Longshot drama in this one) which involves a orbiting prison created by Mojo that Gambit infiltrates against Xavier's will and X-Men: Dark Mirror by Marjorie Liu, which involves 5 X-Men(including Rogue) having their minds switched into human bodies some of which were not even their own gender(yeah, it was fun as that sounds). Gambit is not one of the mind switched mutants but he does appear pretty heavily in the latter part of the novel from what I remember. Don't bother with the Gamma Quest trilogy if you are mainly looking for Gambit, because he is not in it, but Rogue did feature in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    Man, haven't thought about those in ages, but there were some fun ones. Also interesting to me is how many of them did stuff the comics only tried years and years after them. Like, the Mutant Empire trilogy of novels in the 90s had Juggernaut working alongside the X-Men for most of the third book, almost a decade before anyone ever entertained using him on an X-Men lineup. I think a lot of writers took a bunch of inspiration from various tie-in novels, and its kinda interesting to go back and see where various things from the comics mirror events from the books, which had more freedom to just....do whatever, without worrying editorial would shut a plot down because of how it would impact other Marvel franchises.

    But in regards to your question, don't quote me cuz its literally been years since I read most of these, but I remember the Mutant Empire trilogy having some great Remy moments. There was another stand-alone called Smoke & Mirrors, that featured Sinister as the primary antagonist, and tbh I can't remember off the top of my head how extensively Remy figured into that one, as it was less about exploring Sinister's past history with the X-Men and more just him being his lovely mad scientist self and experimenting on these new OC mutants created by the book's author and that the X-Men were trying to rescue from him. There was also a trilogy who's title I'm totally blanking on right now, but it was actually a three-novel crossover between the X-Men and Avengers, and involved classic Hulk villain The Leader kidnapping Rogue, Wolverine and Wanda due to some scheme he had about how he could combine their powers in a way that would definitely let him succeed in taking over the world for real this time. There were a lot of good moments in that trilogy, I feel like, particularly because we don't often get to see the X-Men face off against gamma-based threats like the Hulk's villain gallery.

    Also there was a trilogy that crossed over the X-Men with Spider-Man, that one was called Time's Arrows, I think, and it involved them having to stop some time traveling villain from shaking the timeline like an Etch-a-sketch or whatever. Your usual paradox shenanigans.

    But the various novels didn't have a single consistent lineup of X-Men, it tended to be at the discretion of the individual author, like Smoke & Mirrors is the only one I can remember having Betsy in it, and Bobby was only in the Mutant Empire trilogy, etc....but because all those books were released throughout the 90s, when the animated show's lineup reined supreme, I'm pretty sure the core cast of the cartoon ended up in all the books as those were the characters Marvel figured everyone was picturing when thinking of the X-Men in those days. And then characters who weren't present much in the cartoon were the ones who were add-ons in some books but not present in others, based on the preference of each novel's writer. But as far as I can remember, Rogue, Remy, Scott, Jean, Ororo, Hank and Logan were main characters in all the novels I can think of.
    Yeah the Time's Arrow trilogy was fantastic! Loved Spider-Man and Bishop's unlikely and fun duo antics in the Old West in the first book especially. Iceman did feature in that trilogy as well by the way, and it was him and Gambit that went on one of the missions into the past and met the original Human Torch and Toro from the Golden Age of comics. Also, Gambit unfortunately did not appear in the X-Men/Avengers trilogy which I remember disappointing me when it came out.

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Ah, cool! Thanks for all the detailed answers, all! I'd picked up this one on a whim a few years ago and finally got around to reading it since I haven't been liking the comics all that much recently. And it was needed lol

    I'll have to be on the lookout for these. I didn't realize Nocenti and Liu wrote a couple. Those will be instant buys for me.
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  5. #50
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    A quick thought: Before Gambits illegal activities where a problem because the X-men where heroes. Now with Krakoa whatever Gambit would do would not be seen as so bad in contrast. Even excluding all the villains he is far from the most morally ambiguous character they have now. So if we where to get a new ongoing now it might actually fully embrace his darker sides in a way he wasn’t allowed to before.

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Yeah, I mean as long as he doesn’t kill anyone or break the other rules, I don’t think they’d really care. The only issue I could see is from a PR perspective. Rogue was pretty steamed at the possibility that he was seen playing poker with (I forget who with). If he was caught doing something illegal, they probably wouldn’t be happy. But that’s a big if
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  7. #52
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Fascinating! I really need to read this one. I keep thinking Gambit has to have a bigger connection to Amanda Mueller. Anything in the story that might seed a plot for the present era?

    And have we gotten a date yet for Claremont's Gambit series? I'm absolutely dreading what Tini might do with Gambit in Excalibur 2.0. Honestly, if anyone has a target on their back for her to kill it's him.

    Black womb aka Amanda muller aka great grandmother of the “summers” family.

    My theory is that she created Gambit!
    And found a new evolutionary concept via “Homo Unitus”
    Is Gambit the first Home Unitus?

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by thjan View Post
    Yeah the Time's Arrow trilogy was fantastic! Loved Spider-Man and Bishop's unlikely and fun duo antics in the Old West in the first book especially. Iceman did feature in that trilogy as well by the way, and it was him and Gambit that went on one of the missions into the past and met the original Human Torch and Toro from the Golden Age of comics. Also, Gambit unfortunately did not appear in the X-Men/Avengers trilogy which I remember disappointing me when it came out.
    I wish I could read Time's Arrow but I can't find it online anywhere. Seems really interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by gambitxremy View Post
    Black womb aka Amanda muller aka great grandmother of the “summers” family.

    My theory is that she created Gambit!
    And found a new evolutionary concept via “Homo Unitus”
    Is Gambit the first Home Unitus?
    I think Gambit being a prototype chimera and chimeras being Homo Unitus seems neat.

    Amanda is the mother and Sinister is the father. What a fuggin family picture.

  9. #54
    The Spirits of Vengeance K7P5V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    Yeah, I mean as long as he doesn’t kill anyone or break the other rules, I don’t think they’d really care. The only issue I could see is from a PR perspective. Rogue was pretty steamed at the possibility that he was seen playing poker with (I forget who with). If he was caught doing something illegal, they probably wouldn’t be happy. But that’s a big if
    LOL! Remy got corralled into one of Ben's legendary "Super-Hero Poker Games"

    Last edited by K7P5V; 04-03-2022 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Made Adjustments.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drexelhand View Post
    I wish I could read Time's Arrow but I can't find it online anywhere. Seems really interesting.



    I think Gambit being a prototype chimera and chimeras being Homo Unitus seems neat.

    Amanda is the mother and Sinister is the father. What a fuggin family picture.

    I’ve been talk about this for years!!!

  11. #56
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    So the theory is correct, then when Gambit's power manifested (his Origin canon) he cannot control it he need Mr.Sinister to alter his brain in order to control it. I wonder Claremont will mentioned it the upcoming series.
    Last edited by Mutant101; 01-14-2022 at 09:33 PM.

  12. #57
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    I think they really wasted Candra in this current era, as she's always had a ton of potential and her history with Remy and the Thieves' Guild in general makes her pretty relevant to not just X-Men but the whole concept of nation building and shaping a culture - things she's actively done before. I wouldn't mind it if someone did a story where now that the External Gate has fulfilled its function and is basically just a pretty gate with crystals now when any gate can transport someone to Mars from Earth easily enough, like, some of her followers pull a sabotage job and smash the crystals of the External gate, releasing the essences of the four Externals trapped so they restart their usual resurrection cycle....or maybe they trick/hijack the resurrection protocols to bring her back early. (Another story I've wanted to see ever since Mystique conned Destiny's resurrection into happening....HoX mentioned backup mutants who could sub in for members of the Five and still get the job done, I'd love to see rogues or wildcards try and create their own circuit to pull off an unsanctioned resurrection job when the Five are asleep and the Hatchery's unattended, and who better to first attempt it than members of the Thieves and Assassins Guilds?) But like, point being just in some way Candra's brought back, pissed and out for revenge for her unscheduled nap time not just on Remy but Selene, Gideon, etc....but also now that Apocalypse is gone and poses no further threat to her and thus reason for her to keep to the shadows, what does Candra do when having sizable populations of mutants at her disposal as she seeks creates a new power base of thieves and assassins devoted to her?

    All of which would serve to pit Remy against her again, as one of those who knows her best and has the best history of thwarting her, creating this massive power struggle that will affect the future of Krakoa and Arakko and mutants in general for centuries to come. How would Candra even go about seeking revenge, as what does revenge even look like in a civilization where one's target will just be brought back even if you kill them? How do Selene and Gideon and the other Externals respond to her rising threat or go about facing her, like imagine some of them reaching out to Gambit to try and form an alliance and he's like lol, non, I'm good actually, die now whoops I mean bye now. Like idk, something like Candra trying to replicate stuff she's had successes with in the past like the formation of the Guild (and with literally every mutant thief or assassin ever loyal to her over the centuries now accessible via resurrection) but on a much grander scale thanks to Krakoa/Arakko....

    And then maybe Remy decides what's the best way to handle the threat of a growing mutant underworld? Well, if you're the King of Thieves, you steal it.

    Maybe undercutting Candra by using all she's done to expand an underground mutant subculture of thieves and assassins across the two islands/planets....and then throwing his own history and influence around and letting said underworld know that she's not the only horse in this race and they can still have everything she's selling them on....and pointing out the many times he's beaten her or the fact that even WITH his well-earned rep as a thief he's respected and welcomed with open arms by the X-Men, as just a few of the reasons the newly expanding thief and assassin mutant underground should line up behind Remy instead of her. Like the real democratic footrace to decide the future of Krakoa for generations to come is the one happening in the shadows far away from the supposedly watchful eyes of the Quiet Council, lol.

  13. #58
    Mighty Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobbysWorld View Post
    I think they really wasted Candra in this current era, as she's always had a ton of potential and her history with Remy and the Thieves' Guild in general makes her pretty relevant to not just X-Men but the whole concept of nation building and shaping a culture - things she's actively done before. I wouldn't mind it if someone did a story where now that the External Gate has fulfilled its function and is basically just a pretty gate with crystals now when any gate can transport someone to Mars from Earth easily enough, like, some of her followers pull a sabotage job and smash the crystals of the External gate, releasing the essences of the four Externals trapped so they restart their usual resurrection cycle....or maybe they trick/hijack the resurrection protocols to bring her back early. (Another story I've wanted to see ever since Mystique conned Destiny's resurrection into happening....HoX mentioned backup mutants who could sub in for members of the Five and still get the job done, I'd love to see rogues or wildcards try and create their own circuit to pull off an unsanctioned resurrection job when the Five are asleep and the Hatchery's unattended, and who better to first attempt it than members of the Thieves and Assassins Guilds?) But like, point being just in some way Candra's brought back, pissed and out for revenge for her unscheduled nap time not just on Remy but Selene, Gideon, etc....but also now that Apocalypse is gone and poses no further threat to her and thus reason for her to keep to the shadows, what does Candra do when having sizable populations of mutants at her disposal as she seeks creates a new power base of thieves and assassins devoted to her?

    All of which would serve to pit Remy against her again, as one of those who knows her best and has the best history of thwarting her, creating this massive power struggle that will affect the future of Krakoa and Arakko and mutants in general for centuries to come. How would Candra even go about seeking revenge, as what does revenge even look like in a civilization where one's target will just be brought back even if you kill them? How do Selene and Gideon and the other Externals respond to her rising threat or go about facing her, like imagine some of them reaching out to Gambit to try and form an alliance and he's like lol, non, I'm good actually, die now whoops I mean bye now. Like idk, something like Candra trying to replicate stuff she's had successes with in the past like the formation of the Guild (and with literally every mutant thief or assassin ever loyal to her over the centuries now accessible via resurrection) but on a much grander scale thanks to Krakoa/Arakko....

    And then maybe Remy decides what's the best way to handle the threat of a growing mutant underworld? Well, if you're the King of Thieves, you steal it.

    Maybe undercutting Candra by using all she's done to expand an underground mutant subculture of thieves and assassins across the two islands/planets....and then throwing his own history and influence around and letting said underworld know that she's not the only horse in this race and they can still have everything she's selling them on....and pointing out the many times he's beaten her or the fact that even WITH his well-earned rep as a thief he's respected and welcomed with open arms by the X-Men, as just a few of the reasons the newly expanding thief and assassin mutant underground should line up behind Remy instead of her. Like the real democratic footrace to decide the future of Krakoa for generations to come is the one happening in the shadows far away from the supposedly watchful eyes of the Quiet Council, lol.
    Lot of good things.

    The big problem is as you say the Quiet Council. Not that they won’t let anyone do anything it’s just that so much story wise is run through that plot device.

    As it is now it only cements witch characters get to do things. But then for me the best Gambit stories is where he takes things. So let him takes that conflict from the QC and run it with or without them. Probably a bit of both.

    Heck even in Excalibur I would be happy with Gambit leaving the team and setting up a thief guild. Telling Betsy stuff that he won’t hear or know if he is still with them. Being sort of a broker and doing some big operation that helps them. He doesn’t interact with the rest of the team anyway. Better to isolate him and then when he gets a scene it can be all about advancing that plot instead of the muddled mess we have gotten so far.

  14. #59
    Astonishing Member gambitxremy's Avatar
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    Gambit to me is like the John snow of the summers family

  15. #60
    Incredible Member NicoPony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Lot of good things.

    Heck even in Excalibur I would be happy with Gambit leaving the team and setting up a thief guild. Telling Betsy stuff that he won’t hear or know if he is still with them. Being sort of a broker and doing some big operation that helps them. He doesn’t interact with the rest of the team anyway. Better to isolate him and then when he gets a scene it can be all about advancing that plot instead of the muddled mess we have gotten so far.
    He should totally be expanding his Guild empire. Maybe Gambit’s been playing dumb (like real, real dumb) this whole time. Putting out feelers, making contacts. Making enemies underestimate him…

    Candra comes back, but wait, no, she never left! She’d begged Gambit to protect her, and when has Gambit ever turned down a damsel in distress? Never! It was a sleight of hand and Gambit just sent a charged stone into the External gate (we know Apocalypse sensed a power he could use in Remy, and that Gambit can power gates/portals! He’s done it before, see XXM!). Candra owes him big time for saving her bacon. Let’s set up a illegal trade deal with Brightspoke (Blightspoke? Whatever it’s called) and now the Guild has control. Sorry Whitechapel OC character no one cares about, there is a new Sheriff in town. You’ll have to go through him if you want access to the untold riches therein.

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