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  1. #61
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    Polaris cameo in Mighty Marvel Holiday Special - Happy Holidays, Mr. Howlett Infinity Comic 001 2021

  2. #62
    Incredible Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post


    Polaris cameo in Mighty Marvel Holiday Special - Happy Holidays, Mr. Howlett Infinity Comic 001 2021
    Awww, that's so cute

  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    I've really enjoyed Lorna's relationships with Theresa and John Paul. While I'm not fond of Williams' Polaris, I did enjoy her establishing a rapport between Lorna and Northstar, and further fleshing out the friendship between Terry and Lorna.

    I'd said they make strong candidates for close friendships when it comes to Lorna. Rachel too, though we still haven't gotten much of them (despite spending a good chunk of time around one another).

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    I know that lol. I think we are saying the same thing, that’s why I asked WHO would you like those close, emotional relationships to be with. Yes, Jean was her maid of honor but like you said Lorna wasn’t even in Jean’s wedding which makes me think that the writer made Jean Lorna’s made of honor because he couldn’t think of anyone else since Lorna doesn’t have any of those close relationships. They also both were dating brothers.
    I think that was part of it, but Jean was also the one who carried her out of the mass grave that was Genosha that has to be worth something at least at the time.

    They haven’t made the relationship popular or iconic yet, but the outline is there.

    Jmc, You mentioned Lorna having 2 Xavier side and 2 magneto side friends. Any suggestions on who?
    I wasn't just using a Xavier-Magneto binary. End justifies the means can also mean Poccy, Emma, etc. I think Emma makes a good choice there and another would be Frenzy or Exodus. As for the Xavier side Jean would be one and I really can't decide on number two maybe Rogue or Laura.

    Doom is an interesting choice to interact with among humans, especially when the HoM are an actual faction with power behind them again which will probably happen in time.

  5. #65

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    I'll be frank, my biggest concern with regard to Lorna having close relationships established with characters like Siryn, Rachel, etc is that Marvel will treat it like Lorna's not allowed to have meaningful relationships with characters like Jean, Emma, Storm, Iceman, Wolverine, Rogue, etc. I especially think that Marvel having Lorna and Rachel interact much works in their minds as if everything about Lorna and Jean's history must be wiped out to reduce Lorna to "Rachel's friend" in Jean's sphere of relationships instead of "friend of both Jean and Rachel."

    Maybe if Marvel spent a decade doing for Lorna what they've done for characters like the ones I've named, I wouldn't be as concerned. Give her minis or solos, include her in everything major that's X-Men as a meaningful character, etc. If she has that, then Lorna being close to those other characters could be a good thing.

    Lorna has decades worth of being treated poorly and repeatedly undermined to benefit other characters. She needs to stay on the current trajectory started after winning last year's vote. I wish I could say Lorna interacting with those characters wouldn't have a negative impact on her, but I think she's in a sensitive and fragile place right now where all it'll take is a flimsy excuse to limbo or sideline her. This is a company that had the Axis event, where the twins got retconned out of being Magneto's kids and had Red Skull desecrating the Genoshan dead, and instead of Lorna playing a major role, had her wasting time on an offshoot storyline about the U.S. president's nuclear football. They even had Wanda explicitly saying Magneto had no kids in Axis as if Lorna doesn't exist.

    A common adage is that you can't help others until you help yourself. Lorna needs to be in a good place for herself first before she can be helpful to other characters. Until then, it'll just hurt Lorna instead of help her.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  6. #66
    Incredible Member Stormy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    Who do you all think are or should be Lorna’s friends on the X-Men? I’ve been doing some re-reading and really noticing how much closer Rogue and Polaris are than I remember!

    Personally, I think her closest friends should be Frenzy, Rogue, Betsy and Iceman. Jean should be her oldest friend but not her closest. I think they’ve grown so much separately that they should be close but not besties.
    Not necessarily just focusing on the core mutants, I would love to see Polaris befriend some avengers like Janet, She-Hulk and Carol.

    Syren, Rachel, I think they have a lot of synergy with Lorna, and I'm loving this interaction between Polaris and Jean and Rogue in the X-Mens, I'd like to see more of them together.

  7. #67
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salarta View Post
    I'll be frank, my biggest concern with regard to Lorna having close relationships established with characters like Siryn, Rachel, etc is that Marvel will treat it like Lorna's not allowed to have meaningful relationships with characters like Jean, Emma, Storm, Iceman, Wolverine, Rogue, etc. I especially think that Marvel having Lorna and Rachel interact much works in their minds as if everything about Lorna and Jean's history must be wiped out to reduce Lorna to "Rachel's friend" in Jean's sphere of relationships instead of "friend of both Jean and Rachel."

    Maybe if Marvel spent a decade doing for Lorna what they've done for characters like the ones I've named, I wouldn't be as concerned. Give her minis or solos, include her in everything major that's X-Men as a meaningful character, etc. If she has that, then Lorna being close to those other characters could be a good thing.

    Lorna has decades worth of being treated poorly and repeatedly undermined to benefit other characters. She needs to stay on the current trajectory started after winning last year's vote. I wish I could say Lorna interacting with those characters wouldn't have a negative impact on her, but I think she's in a sensitive and fragile place right now where all it'll take is a flimsy excuse to limbo or sideline her. This is a company that had the Axis event, where the twins got retconned out of being Magneto's kids and had Red Skull desecrating the Genoshan dead, and instead of Lorna playing a major role, had her wasting time on an offshoot storyline about the U.S. president's nuclear football. They even had Wanda explicitly saying Magneto had no kids in Axis as if Lorna doesn't exist.

    A common adage is that you can't help others until you help yourself. Lorna needs to be in a good place for herself first before she can be helpful to other characters. Until then, it'll just hurt Lorna instead of help her.
    So do you have any suggestions on who you’d like to see Polaris become friends with or you don’t want her to have any and focus on herself? I agree that Rachel and Siryn may have been the characters lorna has been close with but I don’t think they would help push Polaris out from the sideline.
    Last edited by UncannyLZ; 01-19-2022 at 03:04 PM.

  8. #68
    Fantastic Member UncannyLZ's Avatar
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    My hope for a Polaris is that she gets to have a clear and definitive place within the marvel universe. Previously, I wanted her to finally be seen as a X-Men superhero and I think winning the X-Men vote has really helped push her in that regard. More Time there will help cement her as a primary X-Men member but in the long run I hope that she gets to have more connections and a bigger role in the Marvel universe.

    I don’t think she is leaving the X-Men team but if she were, I’d hope Lorna would have a place to go within the marvel universe or X books.

  9. #69

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    spoilers:
    I would give positive marks to Devil's Reign X-Men. Three ways of getting things done were provided. The Jean way of non-violent debate and discussion. The Emma way of background Machiavellian stealthy manipulation and the Lorna as the direct-action hammer.
    end of spoilers

    Lorna works best when she has an ideology to her actions and isn't just unthinking hot headedness. PAD's second and third ongoings with Lorna were often held back by too much hot headedness and not enough of an ordering principal behind her actions. The last run to really give her a clear ideology was Austen.

    Devil's Reign wasn't bad in that department. She was hot headed, but not in an unthinking way. I still feel Marvel is loathed to make it clear Lorna has an ideology and ordering principal behind her views.

    In terms of Lorna and her place she isn't going to be a full time X-Man forever. Her run there might last to the end of the year, or it might last another year, but I doubt any further than that. What Lorna needs is a clear defined role on who she is and what role in the Marvel universe she represents.

    Is she a mainline x-woman with a little hot headedness like Rogue, Laura, etc. or is she a true middle ground character like Emma, her father, Mystique, etc. I am going to be blunt there in my view the X-Men have enough Xavierite women with a little edge. Lorna should be a character who can work just as well with a team of Acolytes as she can the X-Men and should be a character the audience can imagine doing either.

    On that note former Marvel editor Ben Morse has out a review of New X-Men 132 and said he wrote his graduate thesis in part on the issue.

    https://twitter.com/BenJMorse/status...61300787019777

    I will agree it was one of the best Marvel issues of all time. Though I would regard Uncanny X-Men 443 as the best Lorna centric issue.
    Last edited by jmc247; 01-19-2022 at 04:56 PM.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Soulsword323's Avatar
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    Lorna was pretty great in Devil's Reign today. I thought it was an enjoyable read, even if I don't get all of what's going on there.

    Polaris willing to go the hole for killing Electro <3.

  11. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    So do you have any suggestions on who you’d like to see Polaris become friends with or you don’t want her to have any and focus on herself? I agree that Rachel and Siryn may have been the characters lorna has been close with but I don’t think they would help push Polaris out from the sideline.
    I think I pretty much said everything that came to mind in this post. My concern isn't so much "can this character get Lorna off the sidelines," but more "would Lorna interacting with this character like they're close push her onto the sidelines and keep her stuck there."

    Back when Gifted season 1 was releasing, I suggested the comics bringing in a version of Dreamer for Lorna to do stuff with. At the time, I felt Lorna and Dreamer content on the show was prime for action and the comics could likewise get a lot out of it. Lorna was breaking out on the show, most of the buzz was about her, so bringing in some version of Dreamer to the comics seemed to me like it could show elements of Lorna in the relationship and expand her possibilities rather than limiting her. Whereas nowadays, I'd be opposed to that same idea because it would only hurt Lorna, not expand on her or tell good stories.

    I think Lorna can be friends with other characters. If writers at Marvel care about Lorna enough to have doing right by her in mind, then relationships can be a very good way to show sides of her you might not otherwise see, and build bridges. The one kind of relationship I've recently become against for now, though, is a romantic one. I've previously spoken a lot about my interest in Lorna being in such a relationship with Jean - and even commissioned fanart of it. But since the X-Men vote win, I've seen an absurd number of suggested pairings floated for Lorna, many of which are at such complete odds that they're incompatible and clearly come from wildly different ideas of who Lorna is (unless we're gonna have Lorna getting it on with both Jean and Rachel, I guess?). A clear understanding of Lorna would mean only a handful of romantic prospects. Not dozens. When you have that many, it's clear more needs to be done in establishing who she is so the pool is narrowed. That so many suggested pairings exist shows a great deal of interest in Lorna and her potential among Marvel's audience. Marvel now needs to hone that toward a true sense of the character and proper direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyLZ View Post
    My hope for a Polaris is that she gets to have a clear and definitive place within the marvel universe. Previously, I wanted her to finally be seen as a X-Men superhero and I think winning the X-Men vote has really helped push her in that regard. More Time there will help cement her as a primary X-Men member but in the long run I hope that she gets to have more connections and a bigger role in the Marvel universe.

    I don’t think she is leaving the X-Men team but if she were, I’d hope Lorna would have a place to go within the marvel universe or X books.
    Before the X-Men vote, I had a rule for about 2 years that I refused to engage in anything Disney until Lorna led a team book or got a solo, mini, or oneshot. Marvel didn't give her any of those, but Lorna on X-Men lifted the rule because I felt it achieved the spirit of what I wanted even though it went about it in a way I hadn't expected. She won a vote with a very public spotlight on her, and the outcome of that vote put her on the flagship team with an environment that demonstrated to Marvel how important it is to do right by her due to fan interest. Until that moment, people at Marvel seemed to blow Lorna off as a generally worthless supporting character and status booster for men.

    With things as they are right now, I do hope she stays on the X-Men team. And I hope more is done to get at the heart of who she is in a real way based in her past genuine development (as in development that explicitly had her in mind, not "development" that only existed to be of benefit to everyone except her). The past half year has been a good start down that road. But I'm also bracing for the prospect that Marvel reaches July with a plan to send Lorna back to a relaunched X-Factor (or a book that is essentially X-Factor in all but name). I've been cognizant that Marvel might think of Lorna on X-Men as a means to an end of raising her profile so she can better serve as a marketing tool for X-Factor and other characters on it in the future.

    It's pessimistic, but that pessimism isn't without a history to merit it. I hope I'm wrong. Marvel's had a good run lately of proving me wrong in a good way, and I'd like to see that continue.

    Anyway, I still need to read the stuff that came out today. It was a busy day.
    I can also be reached on BlueSky and Tumblr. Avatar by kahlart.

    Ghosts of Genosha minicomic focused on Polaris, written by me and drawn by Fin_NoMore.

    Polaris 50th anniversary minicomic written by me and drawn by Mlad!

    Gallery of Polaris commissions (without NSFW or minicomics)

  12. #72
    Last edited by jmc247; 01-20-2022 at 12:06 PM.

  13. #73
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    I originally intended to bring this over for posterity's sake only, mostly. But then something *dawned* on me surrounding that last part, when combined with other recent, relevant ruminations, that I wanted to share here.

    Quote Originally Posted by PolarIceFire View Post
    This was a solid, opening issue, with a compelling set-up. And as I have come to expect and look forward to a lot, from Duggan, it had a generous sprinkling of good character moments. Like this one, for Lorna.



    Which brought back memories of:



    AvX!!

    I really like when she lets loose with her play to win and take no prisoners Polaris attitude. She's just got to learn to keep herself in check better, as that bravado keeps coming back to bite her in the booty.

    But I really enjoyed it overall, especially seeing the new X-team outside of their own book, intermingling with each other and the greater MU at large. I haven't had a chance to read their one-shot DoDS tie-in yet, or even XLoW, but hope mutants branching out beyond the confines and concerns of Krakoa continues to grow and take permanent root. Which brings me to the highlighting of this panel, in particular, for the way it's worded.



    Because I think it's a significant development, that could prove to be both a cornerstone and a wellspring in the not-too-distant future, for much of Mutantdom's future stories.
    Blue and gold have been the default designations for teams, and were a call-back to their classic costume, color scheme. But in the new era it evolved to just rep Krakoa and Arakko, or so I thought.

    First, out of nowhere, met with controversy, and threatening to return, came an inaugural X-Men: Green. Following that, will be the soon to be sophomore edition, of ResurrXion's Red debut. And if my hunch is correct, silver, or more aptly: spoilers:
    WHITE?!
    end of spoilers
    Surely, that chromatic theme should not only seem familiar, but also be ringing some major alarm bells. Both for being specific to the franchise, *and* as an aspect of P10's future storyline(s).

    Also, did anybody check out the X/Death of Dr. Strange tie-in, yet? I haven't heard much, so was wondering about Polaris, Sunfire, and the rest of the team's roles.
    Last edited by PolarIceFire; 01-20-2022 at 07:40 PM.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolarIceFire View Post
    Also, did anybody check out the X/Death of Dr. Strange tie-in, yet? I haven't heard much, so was wondering about Polaris, Sunfire, and the rest of the team's roles.
    Like every other possession she had it wasn’t her story, but it was at least a fun issue without the nonsense BS of Lorna feeling guilt ridden about something she did not do.

    Also in the monsters guide they have their possessed personas and have a commentary on some of their demon relationship traits with mirror parallels to their in universe relationships. The implication being Scott and Lorna are Jean’s favorites on the team.


    Last edited by jmc247; 01-20-2022 at 08:26 PM.

  15. #75
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    Thank you!! It still seems pretty cool and anime-like, so I think I'll check it out.

    I also have thoughts on who her relationships would and *should* be with, too.

    However, the presentation's kinda involved, and I'm too tired to start right now.

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