Guten tag meine freunde! The Kurt Wagner - Nightcrawler Appreciation 2022

[JB]

Be still my heart.


Oliver Boito

[Nicoclaws]

Ooooh that's prettyyyyyy ! Pretty boy !

I think you’re right it did stick for a while and it does show how committed Kurt is to something that matters to him and I admire that. I’m pretty sure he has had sex since the vows and before Zsen but as you said it’s been far a few between. So far a few between that I’ve seen some readers who jumped on after the Draco describe Kurt as sexless.

While I wasn’t keen on how Zsen and Kurt hooked up I did like how they parted. I thought they’re was a hint of a nice little friendship (with benefits) developing. I like the side of Kurt who is more sexually active and would like to see his character becoming more comfortable with having romantic relationships again. The Draco is long past and his new thing almost encourages freedom to explore and experience life.

(I’m not calling it a religion, even though again, many articles cite it as such).

Why wouldn't you call it a religion ? It's literaly one. A religion is determined by beliefs, generally in a superior principle and common rituals.

[Proxy]

Be still my heart.


Oliver Boito

Beautiful!

[Proxy]

Why wouldn't you call it a religion ? It's literaly one. A religion is determined by beliefs, generally in a superior principle and common rituals.

I don’t think it’s a religion because to me, it doesn’t fit how we define what is religion and what is a belief system. The spark boiled down to ‘try new things and be respectful about it’ which is a belief system, but not a religion.

Please forgive me as I thought way too hard about this….

According to the seven dimensions of religion, recognised characteristics include:

Ritual Dimension - The spark has no rituals, no ceremonies, prayer or habitual practice.

Experiential Dimension -No one to my knowledge has had a religious experience, Kurt’s enthusiastic…but did he have a spiritual experience? Doubtful.

Mythological Dimension - The Spark has no narrative (historical or mythical) explaining why and how the world exists and what our place is in it. People may have multiple beliefs, but not religions; the Spark isn’t a replacement of another religion and isn’t meant to interfere with mutants existing religions. (Kitty is still Jewish, Kurt still Catholic etc)

Doctrinal Dimension - The Spark is too vague to fit this category, it has no formalized ideas about the world or created any logical systems of meaning that connect the spiritual to reality. The Spark is summarized in one sentence….one. Kurt made it up, seemingly in a few days so it has no distinct religious history.

Ethical Dimension - The Spark has made suggestions of how to live your life ‘try something new, be respectful’ but has no distinct system of right or wrong to live by or what is defined as good or evil ways to live life and pursue happiness.

Institutional Dimension - The comics have yet to show any organized bodies that behave collectively in the name of the Spark. The legionnaires are essentially law enforcement that supposedly adhere to the Spark but nobody follows it in a spiritual way. No established hierarchy of power (Kurt is leader of the legionnaries but hasn’t led worship) No god or deity or supernatural being recognized as a superior ruler and no priest claiming divine commission - Kurt promotes the Spark, but he made it up and hasn’t claimed to receive any divine commission (messages from the ‘divine’/supernatural etc).

Material Dimension - No material artifacts (sculptures, artworks, buildings or cities) I’ll be generous and say you might like to count the Alter as a ‘city’ but whether it was created in the name of the Spark is debatable.

Interdimensional travel - No connection to the divine, otherworldly, supernatural or invisible

I think the Spark is a belief system that mutants may choose to adopt either in place or alongside existing religions. I actually think what Exodus has going on fits the definition of religion more than the Spark.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Looking at the new pages of Legion of X, I just realised why I’ve been so disappointed in Si’s writing of Kurt.

I know what he did with Legion/David, particularly with the parallels of his mutant abilities and mental health.
I was hoping his was going to find a similar hook with Kurt’s physical differences.

Kurt has always had a positive attitude towards his appearance, no doubt helped by his upbringing and place on the A team.
But everyone, absolutely everyone has their moments of self doubt, I think Si is a writer who could have gone into some interesting and intelligent places on this idea of accepting your other-ness.

One of my favourite stories ever is that short back up in the Domino annual where he’s running a support group for physically mutated mutants.
I wish we’d built on that, on how his place in mutant society can help others to be accepted too, by their fellow mutants as well as humans.

Anyway, past my bedtime! Just some late night musings.

[Proxy]

Looking at the new pages of Legion of X, I just realised why I’ve been so disappointed in Si’s writing of Kurt.

I know what he did with Legion/David, particularly with the parallels of his mutant abilities and mental health.
I was hoping his was going to find a similar hook with Kurt’s physical differences.

Kurt has always had a positive attitude towards his appearance, no doubt helped by his upbringing and place on the A team.
But everyone, absolutely everyone has their moments of self doubt, I think Si is a writer who could have gone into some interesting and intelligent places on this idea of accepting your other-ness.

One of my favourite stories ever is that short back up in the Domino annual where he’s running a support group for physically mutated mutants.
I wish we’d built on that, on how his place in mutant society can help others to be accepted too, by their fellow mutants as well as humans.

Anyway, past my bedtime! Just some late night musings.

I agree, I’ve been very disappointed by Si’s portrayal of Kurt but more so because I was excited for the possibilities. I like your idea of exploring the acceptance of other-ness, especially on Krakoa which is whole new cultural world developing.

I was also hoping for Legion and Kurt to develop a kind of relationship (maybe even friendship) that explored their similarities and differences. Both have been abandoned by their parents one way or the other and both have to confront that abandonment daily. Both have a sense of other-ness and need to belong and search for an acceptance of self, but their methods of dealing with these issues are so very different. There was so much potential for learning and developing new points of view from each other.

I wondered how Legion felt to be openly disliked by Xavier and watch him treat Kurt like a son.

Sadly what we’ve had was quite superficial. Like most teams on Krakoa, I feel like we have colleagues who are considered aquaninstences, exchanging pleasantries at the water cooler until they move on to another branch.

[From The Shadows]

I think you’re right it did stick for a while and it does show how committed Kurt is to something that matters to him and I admire that. I’m pretty sure he has had sex since the vows and before Zsen but as you said it’s been far a few between. So far a few between that I’ve seen some readers who jumped on after the Draco describe Kurt as sexless.

While I wasn’t keen on how Zsen and Kurt hooked up I did like how they parted. I thought they’re was a hint of a nice little friendship (with benefits) developing. I like the side of Kurt who is more sexually active and would like to see his character becoming more comfortable with having romantic relationships again. The Draco is long past and his new thing almost encourages freedom to explore and experience life.

(I’m not calling it a religion, even though again, many articles cite it as such).

I'd like to see Kurt have more romance in his life again too as long as he is more than just a swashbuckling ladies man and lives up to his potential like he did in the A.X.E event showing his leadership qualities.

I always liked the idea of Kurt and Betts. Though, Rachels kiss with her makes this even less likely.

[From The Shadows]

Be still my heart.


Oliver Boito

Saw this in another thread. Gorgeous.

[Nicoclaws]

I don’t think it’s a religion because to me, it doesn’t fit how we define what is religion and what is a belief system. The spark boiled down to ‘try new things and be respectful about it’ which is a belief system, but not a religion.

Please forgive me as I thought way too hard about this….

Haha you really did think hard about it XD I just looked at the dictionary definition tbh, which is way less specific than your criteria.
It's actually funny : in french dictionnaries, the presence of a god/superior being is not part of the main definition, but it's way more present in english dictionnaries.

Anyways I like WoXLoX and I'm not as bothered as many fans by NC characterization, but I agree that I was waiting for more from Spurrier.

[Grimsmack]

I don’t think it’s a religion because to me, it doesn’t fit how we define what is religion and what is a belief system. The spark boiled down to ‘try new things and be respectful about it’ which is a belief system, but not a religion.

Please forgive me as I thought way too hard about this….

According to the seven dimensions of religion, recognised characteristics include:

Ritual Dimension - The spark has no rituals, no ceremonies, prayer or habitual practice.

Experiential Dimension -No one to my knowledge has had a religious experience, Kurt’s enthusiastic…but did he have a spiritual experience? Doubtful.

Mythological Dimension - The Spark has no narrative (historical or mythical) explaining why and how the world exists and what our place is in it. People may have multiple beliefs, but not religions; the Spark isn’t a replacement of another religion and isn’t meant to interfere with mutants existing religions. (Kitty is still Jewish, Kurt still Catholic etc)

Doctrinal Dimension - The Spark is too vague to fit this category, it has no formalized ideas about the world or created any logical systems of meaning that connect the spiritual to reality. The Spark is summarized in one sentence….one. Kurt made it up, seemingly in a few days so it has no distinct religious history.

Ethical Dimension - The Spark has made suggestions of how to live your life ‘try something new, be respectful’ but has no distinct system of right or wrong to live by or what is defined as good or evil ways to live life and pursue happiness.

Institutional Dimension - The comics have yet to show any organized bodies that behave collectively in the name of the Spark. The legionnaires are essentially law enforcement that supposedly adhere to the Spark but nobody follows it in a spiritual way. No established hierarchy of power (Kurt is leader of the legionnaries but hasn’t led worship) No god or deity or supernatural being recognized as a superior ruler and no priest claiming divine commission - Kurt promotes the Spark, but he made it up and hasn’t claimed to receive any divine commission (messages from the ‘divine’/supernatural etc).

Material Dimension - No material artifacts (sculptures, artworks, buildings or cities) I’ll be generous and say you might like to count the Alter as a ‘city’ but whether it was created in the name of the Spark is debatable.

Interdimensional travel - No connection to the divine, otherworldly, supernatural or invisible

I think the Spark is a belief system that mutants may choose to adopt either in place or alongside existing religions. I actually think what Exodus has going on fits the definition of religion more than the Spark.

Good analysis! I enjoy the lesson and agree with you. Given a few decades, it could grow into a religion, but it's just a mantra of sorts currently. Sort of like Pay it Forward …

[Proxy]

I'd like to see Kurt have more romance in his life again too as long as he is more than just a swashbuckling ladies man and lives up to his potential like he did in the A.X.E event showing his leadership qualities.

I always liked the idea of Kurt and Betts. Though, Rachels kiss with her makes this even less likely.

They do have some sweet moments. Betsy’s otherwise engaged but potentially Kurt is reconnecting with Stacy X.



Casual throwaway hook up line or a chance to explore a relationship Kurt didn’t pursue in the past?

[Nicoclaws]

Totally regular hook up with Stacy.
OR she just know everyone's love life and monitors the possible sexual diseases.

[Proxy]

Totally regular hook up with Stacy.
OR she just know everyone's love life and monitors the possible sexual diseases.

I hope not, monitoring who’s sleeping with who seems kind of creepy.

But I do agree this is more likely a regular hook up, shame though. We could have some relationship/friendship development.

[Nicoclaws]

I hope not, monitoring who’s sleeping with who seems kind of creepy.

But I do agree this is more likely a regular hook up, shame though. We could have some relationship/friendship development.

Well they ARE coming to HER house to have sex so...

[K7P5V]

Carlos Pacheco (R.I.P.)