Shang-Chi Appreciation 2022

[phonogram12]

Okay, you mean that Shang Chi, like in the comics, would have been too out of times ? That have worked with Bruce Lee ? I mean unlike the Lone Rangers, peoples are already used to of MA hero is more or less "old school in modern time"; yes I'm not asian and that probably mean I'm less sensitive in some aspect of the character, now I don't say he should be 100% like the comics, but at least 50%, it's for that I asked seriously if Bruce is considered like a bad cliche in the asian community; because a modernized version of Shang Chi inspired by him existed already in the comics (for example in Secret Avengers; or in Domino).

Okay. Again, that's a direction they could have taken. But they didn't. And the direction they did seemed to work out just fine in re to reception.

I really like the inspiration of Jackie, but I think they have made that in a superficial way, imho black widow and winter soldiers are not a direct spy movies, but they made the things the closest they can in term of styles, sensibility, without to betray their comics; I think the various Shang Chi stories have enough different materials to be a MCU movies without to reject everything about what made Shang Chi; for example on of my favorite comics is the one shot issue with Deadpool.

But...they didn't reject everything that makes Shang Chi Shang Chi. They kept the most important parts.

I have taken Black Panther example because that a complain I have read a lot in the different fans threads, but yes globally you are correct, for characters like Shang, Tchalla, or Steve Rogers, I really like the icon aspect because it's the way they are in the comics; but yes like @Skyvolt (sorry to don't have quoted you)have said, ithe approach was different in his own movie and in Civil War; also another example from him, you can be from the same community, but have a completly different vision.

The problem with treating these characters solely as icons is that they're generally more interesting as people.

Oops, sorry it's a typo, I mean "slanted eyes..."

Hmm...honestly not better. But again, I'm going to go ahead and assume English isn't your first language.

...yes it's true that they are different sperpectives among the different asians peoples, but my point was to show that you can't satisfy everybody if your approach is to avoid everything that could be potentially seen like problematic, the movie was supposed to be shown in China, just because of that (and yes imo it was the main complain, that little to do with Fu Manchu when you read their comments) it was not the case; the simple fact that Shang is supposed to be a martial art expert have been seen like problematic too.

Unless I'm mistaken, many of the Fu Manchu complaints came from Asian Americans (and with good reason). And the only reason anyone thought the martial arts aspect of Shang Chi would've been problematic was if he was treated like the very justifiably problematic Bruceploitation character.

Because it's a cliche for asian, if the goal is avoid every cliche, for me I find this scene a little cringe (but to be honest also the Starlord musical stuff), I have disliked the Beyonce stuff in Dr Stange, but at least it was less present; the humor is cool, but not every Marvel should have the same level of jokes etc..., for example the Captain America are serious; I think the Big Trouble in little China movie have lot of humors but it's well balanced with intense sequences; that could have worked with Shang Chi.

Okay. It could have. The reception seems to indicate what they did worked just fine, too.

No I don't think it's a possibilty, the intention of Cretton is very clear for the sequel and the movie itself is too different, it's for that I have talked about Shen Kuei, he is the best choice to have something close to the comics; for the MA and the relation father/son, it's here but it's too different, I mean WenWu goal is obsessed with his wife, Shang Chi don't want to stop him and the 10 rings; but avoid the bad dragon stuff;.

Honestly, that's nothing but conjecture at this point. We won't really know for sure until the sequel comes out.

the MA could have been far more, for me they are weak in comparaison to lot, if not most, MCU movies; this demo was from Simu and the team is better that everything in the movie imo:

.

Hard disagree. While I agree that there could've been more fight scenes, I think what we got is every bit as good as anything in this video or any other of the MCU movies.

I completly agree, but the movie Shang don't have shown lot of wisdom, he seem more lost than everything else, that also another point, he don't seem to be a MA perfect master, or any other qualities of the original character

Again, hard disagree. They simply took the most essential parts and jettisoned the most cringe-worthy elements of the character (thankfully).

he seem more an average young asian man, it's like they want him to be more like Peter Parker.

*shrugs* Again, it seemed to work for them so I hardly see that as a negative.

[Bolo]

Okay. Again, that's a direction they could have taken. But they didn't. And the direction they did seemed to work out just fine in re to reception.



But...they didn't reject everything that makes Shang Chi Shang Chi. They kept the most important parts.

The reception was good I don't deny that, but no sorry, there are nothing left from the comics, they have said themselves in these podcasts you have posted.

The problem with treating these characters solely as icons is that they're generally more interesting as people.

I think you can find a good balance, MCU has already that wonderfully for Steve Rogers.

Hmm...honestly not better. But again, I'm going to go ahead and assume English isn't your first language.

Yes english is not my first language, but the term exist, in fact I have learned that with these Chinese netizens who have complainted about this casting; sorry if it's rude, but I have taken directly their words:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/slant-eyed

Unless I'm mistaken, many of the Fu Manchu complaints came from Asian Americans (and with good reason). And the only reason anyone thought the martial arts aspect of Shang Chi would've been problematic was if he was treated like the very justifiably problematic Bruceploitation character.

No Fu Manchu complain also come from China, but they try to mix that with Marvel casting decisions about how both of these choices are racists, for Martial arts, no it's the fact that the first lead asian superhero is a martial artist, I have read lot of complains about that, in this case it was more from American Asian peoples.

Okay. It could have. The reception seems to indicate what they did worked just fine, too.

And again, I'm 100% happy, I'm been rude about this movie and try to over analyzing, because we are Shang Chi fans, but I'm very happy with the success.

Honestly, that's nothing but conjecture at this point. We won't really know for sure until the sequel comes out.

Well maybe they will change their plan, but Cretton seem very clear about the sequel during this interview, the post-credit itself seem strongly imply that, I don't complain, I prefer that.

Hard disagree. While I agree that there could've been more fight scenes, I think what we got is every bit as good as anything in this video or any other of the MCU movies.

Again, hard disagree. They simply took the most essential parts and jettisoned the most cringe-worthy elements of the character (thankfully).

*shrugs* Again, it seemed to work for them so I hardly see that as a negative.

Of course that worked for them, I talk about me, but also lot of Shang Chi fans, the fight scenes should imho far superior to the others Marvel movies, well because he is supposed to be the master of kungfu, and no sorry they just don't take the most essential part, the story, the style, the hero friends have little to no ressemblance to the originals, there are a reason why Simu don't want to sign these comicbooks; for them, according their own interviews, they have seen the character, the comics, like probematic; in this case they should have used another Chinese (or Asian, but I think ironically, they wanted the China box office) character.

[Hypestyle]

with Shang's siblings, what can their special weapons do? Are they enchanted at all?

[phonogram12]

The reception was good I don't deny that, but no sorry, there are nothing left from the comics, they have said themselves in these podcasts you have posted.

I never got that from listening to any of them. If anything, they just said that all the problematic parts were removed.

I think you can find a good balance, MCU has already that wonderfully for Steve Rogers.

I agree. And I think they’ve done that with nearly every character they’ve brought to the big screen so far (Shang Chi, included).

Yes english is not my first language, but the term exist, in fact I have learned that with these Chinese netizens who have complainted about this casting; sorry if it's rude, but I have taken directly their words:

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/slant-eyed

That’s fine. There are a couple things that I feel I do need to point out, though. FIrst of all, just because a term exists doesn’t mean it’s not offensive. And secondly, one thing that many tend to be unaware of is that there is often a pretty big difference in perception between Asians from Asian and Asian American.

No Fu Manchu complain also come from China, but they try to mix that with Marvel casting decisions about how both of these choices are racists, for Martial arts, no it's the fact that the first lead asian superhero is a martial artist, I have read lot of complains about that, in this case it was more from American Asian peoples.

I’ve read that as well. In fact, many of the cast and crew were uncertain that they even wanted to be a part of the making of this movie. It’s only after the thoughtful approach that was presented to them by Feige, Cretton, and the screenwriters that everyone got on board. Without the nuance of portraying these characters as real people this film wouldn’t have received even half of the support, accolades, or box office that it did.

And again, I'm 100% happy, I'm been rude about this movie and try to over analyzing, because we are Shang Chi fans, but I'm very happy with the success.

Glad to hear it!

Of course that worked for them, I talk about me, but also lot of Shang Chi fans, the fight scenes should imho far superior to the others Marvel movies, well because he is supposed to be the master of kungfu, and no sorry they just don't take the most essential part, the story, the style, the hero friends have little to no ressemblance to the originals, there are a reason why Simu don't want to sign these comicbooks; for them, according their own interviews, they have seen the character, the comics, like probematic; in this case they should have used another Chinese (or Asian, but I think ironically, they wanted the China box office) character.

The MCU hasn’t translated any character 100% from the comics (heck, just look at the Guardians of the Galaxy, Hela, Thanos, Ultron, Captain Marvel…the list goes on and on). Shang Chi is no different.

[Tien Long]

Hi all. Just a couple of thoughts:

- Regarding recent discussions, all I can say is that we all have our own views. Each is legit. As for the direction of Shang-Chi in comics, movies, or other media, I feel it could go in either way.

- Need to qualify my comment on the martial arts in Shang-Chi. It was done well, but I feel it could also improve. Rewatching certain scenes, I've come to appreciate them more now than the first time I saw them. Looking at some of the other action and fighting scenes in the MCU, the ones in Shang-Chi are good. However, I'd like to see a simple, one on one or one against many, empty hand fight in the next movie. No gimmicks, nothing that gets in the way of seeing the fighting.

with Shang's siblings, what can their special weapons do? Are they enchanted at all?

I don't think any of the weapons are enchanted. However, the users are special. Zhilan is a mutant who can turn music into physical forms.

[Tien Long]

Couple of other thoughts:

- Shang-Chi #11 comes out tomorrow! Check out the preview here:
https://aiptcomics.com/2022/04/15/ma...-shang-chi-11/

The Jade Emperor appears?! Really?! I was expecting full-on, imperial ruler of Heaven complete with a heavenly court. Hopefully there's more to this in the issue.

- Thought I'd repost the first trailer of the Shang-Chi movie. Indeed, it is the one year anniversary to when it first premiered! I post it because there's a lot of sentimentality regarding the trailer. I can still remember honestly crying when I first saw it, knowing that one of my favorite heroes was coming to the big screen.

[phonogram12]

I don't think any of the weapons are enchanted. However, the users are special. Zhilan is a mutant who can turn music into physical forms.

I liked how when Sister Dagger pointed out that their father had less than complimentary things to say about mutants Shang refused to have any of that. I get that Dagger is more or less supposed to be Shang Chi's Damian Wayne, but the way she takes the backwards ideas of her father as gospel without ever questioning them on her own until Shang points out how flawed they are (and even still fights him on it) just annoys the piss out of me.

[Tien Long]

I liked how when Sister Dagger pointed out that their father had less than complimentary things to say about mutants Shang refused to have any of that. I get that Dagger is more or less supposed to be Shang Chi's Damian Wayne, but the way she takes the backwards ideas of her father as gospel without ever questioning them on her own until Shang points out how flawed they are (and even still fights him on it) just annoys the piss out of me.

True. That particular scene could be unpacked in so many ways. In one sense, it mays me think about Zheng Zu's history with mutants. He has to have had some experience with mutants. I've always said that he probably met a pre-Mr. Sinister Nathaniel Essex in the past. Or perhaps even Apocalypse. These ideas had to have shaped his views towards mutants as well as the dangers they pose. Again, all the more reason why we should examine Zheng Zu's past.

On a deeper level, it reminds me of the disciminatory and (let's be honest) racist attitudes that Asians have, particularly those older generations. Yes, Asians and those of the diaspora have encountered a huge amount of racism. However, Asians can be racist as well, whether its against other Asians or non-Asians. There's a history behind that that has to be explored of course. But nonetheless it exists. And unfortunately it can spread to the younger generations, as we can see in this scene.

But then we have Shang-Chi. Who decides we don't have to commit the same mistakes as our parents:


A real master of Kung Fu.

[phonogram12]

True. That particular scene could be unpacked in so many ways. In one sense, it mays me think about Zheng Zu's history with mutants. He has to have had some experience with mutants. I've always said that he probably met a pre-Mr. Sinister Nathaniel Essex in the past. Or perhaps even Apocalypse. These ideas had to have shaped his views towards mutants as well as the dangers they pose. Again, all the more reason why we should examine Zheng Zu's past.

On a deeper level, it reminds me of the disciminatory and (let's be honest) racist attitudes that Asians have, particularly those older generations. Yes, Asians and those of the diaspora have encountered a huge amount of racism. However, Asians can be racist as well, whether its against other Asians or non-Asians. There's a history behind that that has to be explored of course. But nonetheless it exists. And unfortunately it can spread to the younger generations, as we can see in this scene.

But then we have Shang-Chi. Who decides we don't have to commit the same mistakes as our parents:


A real master of Kung Fu.

Ugh. Yeah, you don't have to tell me. At least in America, keeping minorities divided is yet another tool the majority uses to maintain their power.

But that's a topic for another thread.

[Tien Long]

Hi all. Thoughts on issue #11? It was a decent story, but it edged on being rushed. By that I mean, there were a lot of things that just suddenly happened. The Jade Emperor (who I feel should have been more powerful), the appearance of Zheng Zu, the mystical weapons, the Ten Rings, Chieftain Xi's betrayal, all seemed to happen one after the other. It wasn't too overwhelming and the basic plot is still pretty cool. However, there seemed to be a lot of set up here just for Shang-Chi to get the Ten Rings.

However, I wonder how all of this will end. Looking forward to next issue.

[Tien Long]

Hi all. Here is the latest preview for Shang-Chi #12:

https://aiptcomics.com/2022/05/06/ma...-shang-chi-12/

Shang-Chi is beginning to use the Ten Rings. I'm a little cautious with this issue. The synergy between the movie and the comics may be a little too one-sided. I wouldn't want the movie to completely dictate the direction of the comic.

But wow, it's pretty cool to see those rings in action.

[Frontier]

Hi all. Here is the latest preview for Shang-Chi #12:

https://aiptcomics.com/2022/05/06/ma...-shang-chi-12/

Shang-Chi is beginning to use the Ten Rings. I'm a little cautious with this issue. The synergy between the movie and the comics may be a little too one-sided. I wouldn't want the movie to completely dictate the direction of the comic.

But wow, it's pretty cool to see those rings in action.

I wasn't sold on the 10 Rings in the movie (at least for Shang) so I'm not sure if Yang will change my mind, but I am looking forward to the book.

[Sutekh]

with Shang's siblings, what can their special weapons do? Are they enchanted at all?

Sister Dagger has tossed out daggers that release clouds of knockout or obscuring gas, on at least two occasions, IIRC, but I assume that's a technological thing and not a magical enchantment. Neither Brother Saber nor Sister Hammer (nor the Staff dude I forgot the name of) have shown off any special weapon stunts, either tech or magic, AFAIK.

I do kind of wish that they'd gone with the traditional four weapons of Chinese lore; Dao (curved single edged sword or sabre, the General of Weapons), Gun (staff, the Grandfather of Weapons), Jian (straight sword, the Gentleman of Weapons) and Jiang (spear, the King of Weapons), but the dagger and hammer at least have distinctive visuals, rather than two different types of swords.

And while it's not one of the 'four weapons' *or* one of the Deadly Houses, I'd be interested in seeing a school / deadly house based on archery! (Or even one based on more exotic weapons, like the lajatang or meteor hammer or chain whip. Imagine a 'Deadly House' entirely focused on unique weapons, with each student expected to master something no one else does, *or* to beat the current master of that exotic weapon and force them to learn a new one!)

[MichaelC]

For some reason Iron Man doesn't trust martial artists with power rings. Can't imagine why.

[Tien Long]

For some reason Iron Man doesn't trust martial artists with power rings. Can't imagine why.

An astute observation bro. As for my own thoughts on the issue, it was a solid conclusion to the current volume. Additionally, it was a nice set up for the next story. We see glimpses of Shang-Chi with the Ten Rings and it is worrisome. Seeing Shang trapping his grandfather, his father egging him on, I honestly thought Shang was going to do it.

The rest of the issue seemed to tie things neatly. But, Shang finds himself confronted with the rings again. I like this. We know that Shang-Chi will have to deal with the rings, but it appears that he'll have to deal with them himself.

Overall, this was a solid issue. Looking forward to the new story!