Shang-Chi Appreciation 2022

[Hypestyle]

Okay i recently read some updated info on shang chi parents in comics.
I posted that his mother was bi-racial in the last Asian marvel characters appreciation thread.

Asian marvel characters-appreciation thread.
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...ciation/page20

I was mistaken.

She was white.
His father is all east asian.
So was i right originally.

In recent comics he real found his biological mom who is all east asian.

Note- just because his father was named Fu Manchu,that does not mean he has the same history as the other one.
His name is now Zheng Zu in comics anyway and he was never any verison of Fu Manchu.
Of course that was changed awhile ago.



His father in the canon marvel comic version was never part british,so i was originally right about that one also.
So shang-chi is not bi-racial in canon comics.
That has been retcon.





Why is Shang-Chi losing his biracial heritage? self.CharacterRant
https://www.reddit.com/r/CharacterRa...cial_heritage/

curious. well, in my case I never really got to read the original series of MOKF. So I had no idea that he was initially half-caucasian for many years of my awareness of the character.

I also wasn't initially aware of the legal connections to the Sax Rohmer estate, creator of Fu Manchu, etc., and the problems that posed in later years.

At this point, I understand the legal and creative imperative to cut off Shang from any connections to the "Fu Manchu" narrative, including distancing Shang from the Yellow Peril tropes of the 20th century.

As far as the white mom, I don't know how often she was used in the comics. Since it appears that she wasn't used that often, I guess Marvel editorial feels safe to retcon it away since the initial reason for it had to do with a certain kind of hyper-assimilation based racism, being "half-caucasian" as making a character more sympathetic to the (presumed) audience of Caucasian comic book buyers (most of whom in the 70s were kids, of course)..

At this point, I don't know if there would ever be a storyline that involves the woman who was ordered or brainwashed to pretend to be Shang's mother is in trouble, and then Shang has to save her (or perhaps he can't save her, dramatic death) and come to terms with what her "deception" means to him at this point in his life.

[phonogram12]

@Phonogram12; I'm happy to learn that Simu don't have a "grudge" against the original artists; for the improvement from the movie, I don't agree, have you some examples ? yes Shang is more human, he love the karaoke etc..., but I have seen nothing that I have considered a progress, I think the Mandarin is better like a cruel super vilain because that put Shang Chi is a very difficult position.

The fact that Shang is portrayed as more human is progress in itself. I agree with Tien Long that "Shang-Chi's stoic, impersonal, 'noble savage' narration makes me wince. But they don't turn me away." IMHO, while I wouldn't go as far to say that the original interpretation of the character was offensive, he did come off as a bit of a caricature. As for Wen Wu, I vastly preferred Tony Leung's portrayal. Not only is he one of the world's best actors, but the farther we get from the (literally) yellow skinned, long nailed, mustache twirling Fu Manchu the better.

[Tien Long]

@Tien Long, I'm not asian, I maybe don't see the problem like asian peoples have seen about the comics, but honestly I have never seen Shang like the "noble savage", just a noble man with elder values, more like Captain America with a more "exotic" vibe, what I like about him it's that everybody around him, and that includes his allies, are not really honest and him try to stay noble, maybe that make him too monk or too stoic but that something I like about the character, and like you say he is passionate, he have multiples girlfriends, a complicated romance etc...now Simu is young, maybe he see these comics like some relics from the past, I don't know, maybe it's not all about his decision (he have an agent, Marvel etc...); look sorry I have reply to multiples peoples, I'm a little confused; what I want for a Shang Chi movie; simply a Bruce Lee movie with big fx and fantastic elements.

No problem. Yeah, I still see the value in Shang's nobility and honor. I'll always say that he sees things and makes connections in unique ways. For me, that's what happens through years of meditation and martial arts training. However, when I read those past issues of MOKF, Shang's depiction is a little stiff. He's essentially the third person narrator for many issues and just tells what's happening in the story. Reston, Black Jack, and Leiko get some personality building. I don't see that with Shang.

curious. well, in my case I never really got to read the original series of MOKF. So I had no idea that he was initially half-caucasian for many years of my awareness of the character.

I also wasn't initially aware of the legal connections to the Sax Rohmer estate, creator of Fu Manchu, etc., and the problems that posed in later years.

At this point, I understand the legal and creative imperative to cut off Shang from any connections to the "Fu Manchu" narrative, including distancing Shang from the Yellow Peril tropes of the 20th century.

As far as the white mom, I don't know how often she was used in the comics. Since it appears that she wasn't used that often, I guess Marvel editorial feels safe to retcon it away since the initial reason for it had to do with a certain kind of hyper-assimilation based racism, being "half-caucasian" as making a character more sympathetic to the (presumed) audience of Caucasian comic book buyers (most of whom in the 70s were kids, of course)..

At this point, I don't know if there would ever be a storyline that involves the woman who was ordered or brainwashed to pretend to be Shang's mother is in trouble, and then Shang has to save her (or perhaps he can't save her, dramatic death) and come to terms with what her "deception" means to him at this point in his life.

I'd like to see the acknowledgement of Shang-Chi's white mother in the future. I'm totally down with Jiangli being his real mother, but I'd still like the story to make sense, y'know? Was Shang's white mother just a figment of his imagination? I think Gene's issues said there was some memory tampering there. A definitive statement would be good.

The fact that Shang is portrayed as more human is progress in itself. I agree with Tien Long that "Shang-Chi's stoic, impersonal, 'noble savage' narration makes me wince. But they don't turn me away." IMHO, while I wouldn't go as far to say that the original interpretation of the character was offensive, he did come off as a bit of a caricature. As for Wen Wu, I vastly preferred Tony Leung's portrayal. Not only is he one of the world's best actors, but the farther we get from the (literally) yellow skinned, long nailed, mustache twirling Fu Manchu the better.

Understood bro. Yes, Shang edged on caricature, not so much offense. We need to see more fully realized characters. I want to see Zheng Zu in the comics now. I'm seeing someone who is a complicated man, who was harsh, brutal and cruel. And that the circumstances around him drove him to that.

[Bolo]

The fact that Shang is portrayed as more human is progress in itself. I agree with Tien Long that "Shang-Chi's stoic, impersonal, 'noble savage' narration makes me wince. But they don't turn me away." IMHO, while I wouldn't go as far to say that the original interpretation of the character was offensive, he did come off as a bit of a caricature. As for Wen Wu, I vastly preferred Tony Leung's portrayal. Not only is he one of the world's best actors, but the farther we get from the (literally) yellow skinned, long nailed, mustache twirling Fu Manchu the better.

Honestly I think they have pushed too far the button about Mandarin, he is just new a romantic character, yes maybe the full look of Fu Manchu is a bit too much, but imho that not really different of all the bad guys during the best years of HK movies, I really like Tony Leung, one of the best actor, but I think the movie, if the ambition was to make a martial art superhero movie, would have been to be more manichean, because that would have worked better like that.

No problem. Yeah, I still see the value in Shang's nobility and honor. I'll always say that he sees things and makes connections in unique ways. For me, that's what happens through years of meditation and martial arts training. However, when I read those past issues of MOKF, Shang's depiction is a little stiff. He's essentially the third person narrator for many issues and just tells what's happening in the story. Reston, Black Jack, and Leiko get some personality building. I don't see that with Shang.

I think that the problem of lot of perfect characters have like Cap America, Silver Surfer, Black Panther...they don't need to evolve because they are already perfect, see Steve Roger in comparaison to Bucky for example, or Shen Kuei, in few appearances the character have lot of change, imho it's a strenght of Shang Chi to have a hero who don't change too much, to have something familiar, he is like a classic hero of martial hero movie, Wong Fei Hung is always the same (except with Jackie Chan); and in some way that true for Bruce Lee various characters.

I'd like to see the acknowledgement of Shang-Chi's white mother in the future. I'm totally down with Jiangli being his real mother, but I'd still like the story to make sense, y'know? Was Shang's white mother just a figment of his imagination? I think Gene's issues said there was some memory tampering there. A definitive statement would be good.

Yes that a really complicated situation, I think they should say that the white mother is built with the essence of the Jiang Li or something like that; I don't read the last comics, but she is like in the movie (I don't have seen the movie yet, but I have read all the spoilers) ? because it seem very close to Wu Ao Shi from Iron Fist (except the Pirate stuff; something I really would have liked to see).

Understood bro. Yes, Shang edged on caricature, not so much offense. We need to see more fully realized characters. I want to see Zheng Zu in the comics now. I'm seeing someone who is a complicated man, who was harsh, brutal and cruel. And that the circumstances around him drove him to that.

I have a sincere question, do you think Bruce Lee in his movies was a caricature ? because he is extremely close to Shang Chi; and that true for the bad guys from the best HK movies; yes I can agree that maybe they need more intimate moment to have more humans characters that just hero vs villain, but I think today, and that not just from Shang Chi, we have pushed the emotional aspect too far, and we have barely action heroes in movies/comics; for me all the intimate moments in Shang Chi (again for what I have seen in trailer/spoilers etc..., I don't have seen the movie), that feel forced, Kathy feel forced (I don't understand why they don't have chosen Leiko but whatever); the romance for Mandarin seem more excuses for his acts when he could have been just conquerant, I mean the guy so from the middle age, I don't buy the fact he have felt in love so quickly etc...

[Frontier]

I have a sincere question, do you think Bruce Lee in his movies was a caricature ? because he is extremely close to Shang Chi; and that true for the bad guys from the best HK movies; yes I can agree that maybe they need more intimate moment to have more humans characters that just hero vs villain, but I think today, and that not just from Shang Chi, we have pushed the emotional aspect too far, and we have barely action heroes in movies/comics; for me all the intimate moments in Shang Chi (again for what I have seen in trailer/spoilers etc..., I don't have seen the movie), that feel forced, Kathy feel forced (I don't understand why they don't have chosen Leiko but whatever); the romance for Mandarin seem more excuses for his acts when he could have been just conquerant, I mean the guy so from the middle age, I don't buy the fact he have felt in love so quickly etc...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. Like, she was funny, but I feel like they really struggled finding a reason for her to be in the movie beyond being the comedy relief everywoman. And then she apparently just joins Shang in a big meeting with other heroes discussing what the rings are...when she doesn't really have any reason to be there.

I also just found it weird that Wenwu runs an international criminal organization with assassins and the like...but the reasons the protagonists have to stop him is because he's going to unknowingly release a bunch of demons on the world because he's being manipulated with his dead wifes' memories. Like, as far as emotional poignancy, it was great, but it just felt like a weird way of framing it and kind of downplaying how bad the Ten Rings are, which I guess they had to in order to justify the team-up or so Xialing doesn't look like a total villain by the end when she takes over.

[MichaelC]

I wouldn't say Shang was a caricature so much as he was written the same way that Spock and Vision are written: as the outsider viewing others from that perspective. Spock has always been an extremely popular character, so it's not an insult to be that sort of character.

[phonogram12]

Understood bro. Yes, Shang edged on caricature, not so much offense. We need to see more fully realized characters. I want to see Zheng Zu in the comics now. I'm seeing someone who is a complicated man, who was harsh, brutal and cruel. And that the circumstances around him drove him to that.

I haven't really kept up prior to Yang's first mini, so all I really know about Zheng Zu is from that stupendous Secret Avengers arc and what Yang's done on Shang-Chi since. But yes, I agree. I would love to learn more about Zheng Zu from Yang's perspective.

Honestly I think they have pushed too far the button about Mandarin, he is just new a romantic character, yes maybe the full look of Fu Manchu is a bit too much, but imho that not really different of all the bad guys during the best years of HK movies, I really like Tony Leung, one of the best actor, but I think the movie, if the ambition was to make a martial art superhero movie, would have been to be more manichean, because that would have worked better like that.

*shrugs*

Their intention was to move as far away from Fu Manchu as possible, which I think was a smart decision. Anything even remotely resembling that I don't see going over to well with today's audiences for a myriad of reasons.

I have a sincere question, do you think Bruce Lee in his movies was a caricature ? because he is extremely close to Shang Chi; and that true for the bad guys from the best HK movies; yes I can agree that maybe they need more intimate moment to have more humans characters that just hero vs villain, but I think today, and that not just from Shang Chi, we have pushed the emotional aspect too far, and we have barely action heroes in movies/comics; for me all the intimate moments in Shang Chi (again for what I have seen in trailer/spoilers etc..., I don't have seen the movie), that feel forced, Kathy feel forced (I don't understand why they don't have chosen Leiko but whatever); the romance for Mandarin seem more excuses for his acts when he could have been just conquerant, I mean the guy so from the middle age, I don't buy the fact he have felt in love so quickly etc...

I don't think this question was directed at me personally, but there's not a single aspect of Bruce Lee's portrayal in any of his films that felt like the least bit of a caricature. The reason for that, though, was because that was the first time the US had ever seen Asian Americans portrayed like that before. It was almost entirely Lee's own creation, which he and his family should be entirely proud of. Unfortunately, however, every performance that aped Lee's later came off as more and more disrespectful, such as the many Bruceploitation films and the abomination that was David Carradine's Kung Fu series to the point that many Asian Americans want to distance themselves from that perception as much as humanly possible.

As for Leiko, maybe she'll show up in a sequel (she seems perfectly fit for an appearance given the direction it may go with Shang's sister taking over the 10 Rings organization), but the character as she appeared in the comics was clearly not fit for the every woman type of character Katy was. Trying to fit Leiko into that mold would've felt even more forced. As for the Wenwu romance, well, I know people who've fallen in love just as quickly without the aid of the type of romance that appears in superhero movies. *shrugs*

Oh, and my copy of The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter starring Gordon Liu came in yesterday, btw. While I've seen the movie many times, already, the special features were just as amazing. Kind of funny that the same day I went to see Everything, Everywhere, All At Once featuring Michelle Yeoh and that old high school friend of Sean and Katy's! It was great, btw, and strangely enough it was also produced by the Russo Brothers!

[Bolo]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way. Like, she was funny, but I feel like they really struggled finding a reason for her to be in the movie beyond being the comedy relief everywoman. And then she apparently just joins Shang in a big meeting with other heroes discussing what the rings are...when she doesn't really have any reason to be there.

Yeah it was a weid decision, I don't know if you have seen my other post with the concept art, there are another woman with them, maybe it was supposed to be Leiko, maybe originally it was more logical, because that absolutely no sense that Shang accept her presence during all these stuffs; I don't hate her, but that seem one of these decision to try to be more "cool" and don't have a strict martial art movie like the comics.

I also just found it weird that Wenwu runs an international criminal organization with assassins and the like...but the reasons the protagonists have to stop him is because he's going to unknowingly release a bunch of demons on the world because he's being manipulated with his dead wifes' memories. Like, as far as emotional poignancy, it was great, but it just felt like a weird way of framing it and kind of downplaying how bad the Ten Rings are, which I guess they had to in order to justify the team-up or so Xialing doesn't look like a total villain by the end when she takes over.

Yes, I think that the reason, the 10 rings look like more a group of mercenaries, Wen Wu is supposed to be someone bad, but I don't feel that the way he seem to be in the movie, I find the fact that Shang Chi don't have tried to stop them before a little weird, but I guess he is very serious to want to live a normal life, but that make him very passive and not really responsible, he have left litteraly this gang to make different terrorist attacks etc..., but like you say it was a problem with Xialing, the funny thing, it's Razor Fist and Xialing look mixed with Black Jack Tarr and Leiko in some way.

I wouldn't say Shang was a caricature so much as he was written the same way that Spock and Vision are written: as the outsider viewing others from that perspective. Spock has always been an extremely popular character, so it's not an insult to be that sort of character.

Yes, honestly don't understand the caricature stuff about Shang, there are myriad characters like him, I'm sorry MichaelC, but are you the member who is a big fan of the Mandarin ? What your opinion about this version in comparaison the one from Iron Man 3 (Killian Aldrich) ?

*shrugs*

Their intention was to move as far away from Fu Manchu as possible, which I think was a smart decision. Anything even remotely resembling that I don't see going over to well with today's audiences for a myriad of reasons.

I understand their intention, like I understand the need to mix Iron Fist elements in this movie, but imho, they should find a good balance between these two versions of Mandarin, I don't want a copy/paste of the old comics, I understand that couldn't work well, but I think you can have an intense villain, a real bad guy without too much excuses for his behaviour.

I don't think this question was directed at me personally, but there's not a single aspect of Bruce Lee's portrayal in any of his films that felt like the least bit of a caricature. The reason for that, though, was because that was the first time the US had ever seen Asian Americans portrayed like that before. It was almost entirely Lee's own creation, which he and his family should be entirely proud of. Unfortunately, however, every performance that aped Lee's later came off as more and more disrespectful, such as the many Bruceploitation films and the abomination that was David Carradine's Kung Fu series to the point that many Asian Americans want to distance themselves from that perception as much as humanly possible.

Yes, but what you say about Bruce was true for Shang for the comics medium, for what I'm aware he was the first asian character who have been the center of the comics, the Brucexploitation or the most recent tarantino movie shouldn't be an excuse to erase everything Bruce have done, Shang was 100% aspired by him, I don't say we need a Bruce clone, but a clear inspiration from him, imho I find the movie far more caricatural that the comics itself, I mean the karaoke stuff, the old village, the very forced taichi sequences with the zen attitudes, I find that extrmely cliche, in comparaison to a martial art spy comicbook (something very rare).

As for Leiko, maybe she'll show up in a sequel (she seems perfectly fit for an appearance given the direction it may go with Shang's sister taking over the 10 Rings organization), but the character as she appeared in the comics was clearly not fit for the every woman type of character Katy was. Trying to fit Leiko into that mold would've felt even more forced. As for the Wenwu romance, well, I know people who've fallen in love just as quickly without the aid of the type of romance that appears in superhero movies. *shrugs*

Sorry, I don't want Leiko in movie to be like Katy, but more Leiko in the place of Katy with something close to the comics; for the love story, I don't buy that, the guy is centuries olds, he have probably multiples wives (specially if it's Tony Leung), for me the problem is not the romance itself, it's his importance in the movie and the motivation of every characters.

Oh, and my copy of The 8 Diagram Pole Fighter starring Gordon Liu came in yesterday, btw. While I've seen the movie many times, already, the special features were just as amazing. Kind of funny that the same day I went to see Everything, Everywhere, All At Once featuring Michelle Yeoh and that old high school friend of Sean and Katy's! It was great, btw, and strangely enough it was also produced by the Russo Brothers!

I really like Gordon Liu, he have done lot of classic, my favorite is Martial Club, I was not aware that the Russo have produced a movie with Michelle Yeoh, thank you for the info.

[MichaelC]

What your opinion about this version in comparaison the one from Iron Man 3 (Killian Aldrich) ?

Both captured a key part of the visual appeal of the character: being a superhuman martial artist who can karate-chop through anything. Other than that, neither really felt like the Tem Borjigin of the comics.

Temmy is really designed to be an evil Tony. He's a rich orphan raised in an abusive way that instilled social darwinian values in him.

The Iron Man and The Mandarin’s life-stories parallel each other, except the Mandarin’s is much more evil at every level.

Both Iron Man and Mandarin began as aristocrats.

Iron Man was raised by parents who were cold and concerned with hardening him up and making him a real man.

The Mandarin was raised by an aunt who hated him, and raised him to be an evil super-soldier, obsessed with war and science and martial arts and political deviousness. He was raised to be the harshest possible version of what a “real man” is.

Iron Man squandered some of his fortune on wasteful, hedonistic things, but ultimately was responsible enough to keep his company afloat and keep the people under him employed and prosperous.

The Mandarin squandered every bit of wealth he inherited, bankrupting his estate to transform himself into a super-soldier. His estate became so bankrupt he couldn’t even afford to pay property taxes. As a result, the lives of everyone who depended on his estate was ruined.

Out of a desire to protect American soldiers with the best equipment and keep his company alive, Iron Man de facto supported American actions that were at least semi-colonial. It’s a stain on his conscience that he works every day to rectify.

The Mandarin explored new lands, discovered alien resources, and outright conquered, colonized, enslaved the native villages there so he could exploit the resources there, i.e. the alien technology and rings. He was pretty much colonialism-incarnate. He remains a proud conqueror and exploiter to this day. In short, the Mandarin is an exaggeration of Stark’s worst traits.

“To know that you are superior-- in mind, in body, in spirit. Everything! To know that power is your birthright-- to know what untold thousands exist on this world for no reason but to serve you-- to channel their powers through your empire, be it of land or of business-- channeling it upward to fuel you, to fuel your glory” - The Mandarin

None of the movie versions really felt that way, because none of them were really designed to be an evil Tony Stark, not really. I guess you could kinda sorta make a case for it with Killian, but he was such a grossly simplified take on what an evil Tony Stark is that I wouldn't say he felt like Tem Borjigin either.

Of course, Wenwu isn't designed to be an evil Tony Stark. He's designed to be an evil Shang Chi, and so works in that sense for that movie.

[phonogram12]

I understand their intention, like I understand the need to mix Iron Fist elements in this movie, but imho, they should find a good balance between these two versions of Mandarin, I don't want a copy/paste of the old comics, I understand that couldn't work well, but I think you can have an intense villain, a real bad guy without too much excuses for his behaviour.

They weren't really trying to make excuses for his behavior, though. They were trying to make him three-dimensional by giving him a palpable motivation, which I think they accomplished thoroughly. Anything less would've been a waste of Tony Leung's tremendous talent.

Yes, but what you say about Bruce was true for Shang for the comics medium, for what I'm aware he was the first asian character who have been the center of the comics, the Brucexploitation or the most recent tarantino movie shouldn't be an excuse to erase everything Bruce have done, Shang was 100% aspired by him, I don't say we need a Bruce clone, but a clear inspiration from him, imho I find the movie far more caricatural that the comics itself, I mean the karaoke stuff, the old village, the very forced taichi sequences with the zen attitudes, I find that extrmely cliche, in comparaison to a martial art spy comicbook (something very rare).

Other than inspiration, though, Bruce Lee and the Lee family had absolutely no hand in the creation of any of those things. If anything, they disrespectfully took what they could from his legacy for a profit, none of which they shared with his family. So I'm not really sure if Shang-Chi upholding the Lee legacy is really any sort of legitimate argument.

In promotion of the HBOMax show Warrior a few years back, Lee's daughter, Shannon, talked about a lot of this stuff on a podcast called They Call Us Bruce, appropriately enough. You want to see something authentic to Lee's legacy? Warrior is it and it is stupendous. There's also a young adult graphic novel that also serves as a Bruce Lee biography called The Boy Who Became a Dragon that's really good as well with absolutely amazing art.



I'm not sure what your background is, but if you're at all interested in hearing about how many in the Asian American community feel about both the character and the movie Shang-Chi, I suggest listening to the episodes of the aforementioned They Call Us Bruce podcast along with another called Asian Enough that talk about them.

Sorry, I don't want Leiko in movie to be like Katy, but more Leiko in the place of Katy with something close to the comics; for the love story

That's clearly not the story anyone amongst the cast or crew were interested in telling, though. I for one, enjoyed the story that was told.

I don't buy that, the guy is centuries olds, he have probably multiples wives (specially if it's Tony Leung), for me the problem is not the romance itself, it's his importance in the movie and the motivation of every characters.

And his motivation was clear. So I'm really not understanding the issue.

I really like Gordon Liu, he have done lot of classic, my favorite is Martial Club, I was not aware that the Russo have produced a movie with Michelle Yeoh, thank you for the info.

No problem.

[Frontier]

They weren't really trying to make excuses for his behavior, though. They were trying to make him three-dimensional by giving him a palpable motivation, which I think they accomplished thoroughly. Anything less would've been a waste of Tony Leung's tremendous talent.

I think my issue is they never really addressed his behavior at all beyond how it impacted his children despite the fact that he was running a criminal/terrorist organization.

Like, it's not that I disliked his motivation, it just felt kind off how they downplayed other things.

That's clearly not the story anyone amongst the cast or crew were interested in telling, though. I for one, enjoyed the story that was told.

I enjoyed it too, though I had my issues. But that's life .

No problem.[/QUOTE]

[phonogram12]

I think my issue is they never really addressed his behavior at all beyond how it impacted his children despite the fact that he was running a criminal/terrorist organization.

Like, it's not that I disliked his motivation, it just felt kind off how they downplayed other things.

I enjoyed it too, though I had my issues. But that's life .

Ultimately, the movie was about family, which the original comic book incarnation was about as well more or less. Shang-Chi was essentially an origin story the same way Black Panther and Iron Man were. Bad things were going on that they were directly connected to, but like T'Challa and Tony, Sean and his sister had to have their eyes opened to it before they acted.

[Frontier]

Ultimately, the movie was about family, which the original comic book incarnation was about as well more or less. Shang-Chi was essentially an origin story the same way Black Panther and Iron Man were. Bad things were going on that they were directly connected to, but like T'Challa and Tony, Sean and his sister had to have their eyes opened to it before they acted.

I get it. I just feel like that kind of conflicted with the 10 Rings aspect.

[Bolo]

They weren't really trying to make excuses for his behavior, though. They were trying to make him three-dimensional by giving him a palpable motivation, which I think they accomplished thoroughly. Anything less would've been a waste of Tony Leung's tremendous talent.

Well, Tony Leung don't seem agree, you can have a genius villain with true motivation (nobody have complained about Rhas Al Ghul); he have said himself one of the challenge that play a real villain in the movie but it was sadly not the case (around 8 min 10):

]Other than inspiration, though, Bruce Lee and the Lee family had absolutely no hand in the creation of any of those things. If anything, they disrespectfully took what they could from his legacy for a profit, none of which they shared with his family. So I'm not really sure if Shang-Chi upholding the Lee legacy is really any sort of legitimate argument.

In promotion of the HBOMax show Warrior a few years back, Lee's daughter, Shannon, talked about a lot of this stuff on a podcast called They Call Us Bruce, appropriately enough. You want to see something authentic to Lee's legacy? Warrior is it and it is stupendous. There's also a young adult graphic novel that also serves as a Bruce Lee biography called The Boy Who Became a Dragon that's really good as well with absolutely amazing art.



I'm not sure what your background is, but if you're at all interested in hearing about how many in the Asian American community feel about both the character and the movie Shang-Chi, I suggest listening to the episodes of the aforementioned They Call Us Bruce podcast along with another called Asian Enough that talk about them.

Yes I agree that a direct copy like in the comics of Bruce Lee would have been too much and direspectful but that the ways he is in 90% of his appearance so you can't erase like that this fact, I think the character should have kept lot of elements of Bruce (like a tribute), lot of martial actors have done that without to be a direct copy, Donnie Yen have made all his filmography to try to be a new Bruce Lee. without to be a "too much" a copy, his fight style should have been more direct (they have barely any serious empty fight scenes); his philosophy should have been different, his mood too, her sister is the movie is closer to Bruce (so to Shang Chi) than Shaun.

I really like the Warrior, but I think they have taken too much liberty with the original concept, it was not supposed to be a serial movie, but more each independant episode, there are also the fact it's more a gang story and no more a martial art theme tv show, it's the same problem that Shang Chi but in the opposite spectrum imho.

No I'm not asian, but I'm a big fan of HK old school movies, honestly I'm little surprised to listen some complain with the Asian community in USA, yes I have listening some of these podcast; and that always disturbe me when they begin with "ah okay, another kungfu movie for us"; okay I understand that Hollywood but also tv show need to show all the complexity of these community to avoid the cliche etc..., but in the same time they are complaining when Marvel have made Iron Fist, I don't know if you are a fan of John Carpenter, but it was already the same problem during Big Trouble in Little China; if Shang Chi was such a problem, they should have made another movie with a Chinese character, I don't see the need to change everything.

That's clearly not the story anyone amongst the cast or crew were interested in telling, though. I for one, enjoyed the story that was told.

Yes, but Why to make a Shang Chi movie if it was for change everything about the comics, they have changed the style of fights, they have changed the style etc...

And his motivation was clear. So I'm really not understanding the issue.

Because that change the character he is supposed to be in the comics, and that change completly his relation with Shang Chi.

To be clear, my problem with this movie it's they don't seem to know what they want, they take few elements here and here, and change everything, I think that would have easier to make a Temugin movie !!! In the same time, I think the sequel will be better because they seem to go to full " scifi Mandarin" story with the rings (Makluan etc...) and let the classic aspect of the comics to her sister, I have more hope to see Leiko, Black Jack Tarr etc...in this show; they could replace Shang Chi with Shen Kuei.

@MichaelC, thank you for your reply, I agree with you about the elements of the Mandarin, the fact he is an evil Tony Stark, that what I like about him and have wished to see in the movie, but I don't agree that Shang and WenWu are the doubles to each others in the movie, in some way that true in the comics, but not in the movie, they are just different without to be opposite.

[Digifiend]

First look at Marvel Voices Identity 2022. Shang has two stories, one with Jimmy Woo and the other with Kamala Khan.
https://aiptcomics.com/2022/04/08/ma...entity-1-2022/