Illyana Rasputina/Magik Appreciation 2022

[sunofdarkchild]

Simonsen herself was editor for Claremont for many years, including for the Magik mini, which is part of why it's so unforgivable that she had Illyana state that she killed Belasco and based her characterization on that mistake.

Another aspect of Simonsen's writing that grinds my gears is how she turned Illyana's big conversation with Magneto in issue 52 into something completely different and something very unhealthy. The scene Claremont wrote was basically Illyana growing up, taking responsibility for herself, and deciding that she would fight her darker half for her own sake instead of for the sake of Kitty and her brother. It was her ending her use of crutches. Simonsen made it into the total opposite. Instead of taking responsibility and growing up, Simonsen turned it into Illyana deciding she could just goof off all the time and everything would be fine because Magneto would take care of everything. This interpretation never made sense, because if that was what happened then Illyana would have just let Magneto kill S'ym instead of telling him to let S'ym go because Limbo was her responsibility and she'd find a better way to defeat him on her own. The whole point of Magneto's speech was the necessity of trying even when there's no guarantee of success. The moment Simonsen took over that was gone. She completely missed the point, made Magneto into a bigger crutch for Illyana than Kitty and Colossus ever were, and so much of what Illyana does in her run is just regressing and becoming more immature than she ever was before. Everything she does, even her sacrifice in Inferno, is just running away from the responsibility she had taken on in issue 52. Bendis' whole arc for her had been achieved decades earlier in a single issue, only Simonsen had to muck everything up so much that a new arc was necessary just to get her back to where she was when Claremont left.

[WallStreeter]

Will Illyana remain sorceress supreme of Limbo, or will Madelyne Pryor take the throne? Madelyne is no slouch in terms of power or magic. She gained demonic Limbo magic and she was trained by Selene, who was a candidate for sorceress supreme of the earth dimension but wasn’t chosen because of her unworthy character. Plus as the Red Queen Madelyne learned a lot on her own.

[rcaguy]

Simonsen herself was editor for Claremont for many years, including for the Magik mini, which is part of why it's so unforgivable that she had Illyana state that she killed Belasco and based her characterization on that mistake.

Another aspect of Simonsen's writing that grinds my gears is how she turned Illyana's big conversation with Magneto in issue 52 into something completely different and something very unhealthy. The scene Claremont wrote was basically Illyana growing up, taking responsibility for herself, and deciding that she would fight her darker half for her own sake instead of for the sake of Kitty and her brother. It was her ending her use of crutches. Simonsen made it into the total opposite. Instead of taking responsibility and growing up, Simonsen turned it into Illyana deciding she could just goof off all the time and everything would be fine because Magneto would take care of everything. This interpretation never made sense, because if that was what happened then Illyana would have just let Magneto kill S'ym instead of telling him to let S'ym go because Limbo was her responsibility and she'd find a better way to defeat him on her own. The whole point of Magneto's speech was the necessity of trying even when there's no guarantee of success. The moment Simonsen took over that was gone. She completely missed the point, made Magneto into a bigger crutch for Illyana than Kitty and Colossus ever were, and so much of what Illyana does in her run is just regressing and becoming more immature than she ever was before. Everything she does, even her sacrifice in Inferno, is just running away from the responsibility she had taken on in issue 52. Bendis' whole arc for her had been achieved decades earlier in a single issue, only Simonsen had to muck everything up so much that a new arc was necessary just to get her back to where she was when Claremont left.

That's the one thing I've never really figured out. How could Simonsen write the New Mutants as if they were an older version of Power Pack when she very well knew they weren't.

[WallStreeter]

That's the one thing I've never really figured out. How could Simonsen write the New Mutants as if they were an older version of Power Pack when she very well knew they weren't.

She was much better as an editor. Too bad she didn’t stick to editing. I loved the Claremont books edited by Simonson. Those were the best. Claremont and Harass weren’t such a great team, and he was Louise’s editor too. Harras hated the magical and cosmic aspects of the XMen, and was obsessed with DOFP stories. If you think about it Illyana herself could prevent DOFP. So of course, she had to be gotten rid of. Warlock was killed off. Phoenix Aja Rachel banished to the far future, while Jean retained the codename Phoenix.

That was just a rough time at Marvel. But later writers were able to salvage things.

[sunofdarkchild]

Looks like Illyana will have some role in the Judgement Day story.



While covers often lie, it makes no sense to include her here and be the only one not featured in the story itself.

[Andru]

Gillen is on writing duties correct? I'd like to see his updated take on Magik.

And even if she really isn't in the story, Jean & Echo being in the same space should be interesting...

[sunofdarkchild]

From the New Mutants 24 preview. I don't understand. Even if Illyana's in a better place now and happy for the first time ever, this is completely out of character for her. Leaving aside the stupidity of the argument she's making, Illyana is the last person who'd want others to know everything about her and be completely open about herself. It's not like she suddenly changed into a person who would never keep a secret and is completely fine with everyone else knowing every last detail of the abuse she suffered in Limbo. I'm not sure which is worse between this and the recent soul sword idiocy. Wanting a world where everyone always understands everyone else perfectly is tantamount to wanting to give up her own identity.

[Aetherna]

The writing for Magik has been all over the place ever since AvX. I miss when she sat imprisoned in a cell on Utopia and just said ominous oneliners, at least her character was consistent back then. Gillen writing her again would be interesting so hopefully she shows up as more than "cool background sword girl" in Judgment Day.

[sunofdarkchild]

We have the opposite opinion. I actually consider Gillen's writing of her to be the most inconsistent part of her last 15 years and think that she's had very consistent development since 2007 with the exception of his run. Since her return she's had a general trajectory of becoming more human and moving from a worse place to a better place. She gets restored as a demon with no soul and acts like it. She regains part of her soul and starts acting more human, but is clearly not there yet. She gets the rest of her soul back and begins the healing process, eventually taking responsibility for her power and reestablishing her past relationships. It makes sense for Lemire's Illyana to be nicer and happier than Bendis' Illyana and it makes sense for Bends' Illyana to be nicer and happier than Wells' Illyana, though Lemire did go too far in that direction. Gillen is one that doesn't fit, as his Illyana is less human and more crazy than Wells' Illyana was even though Wells' Illyana was missing most of her soul and Gillens' Illyana was supposed to have gotten her soul back. In terms of consistency and character development Gillen's run would be better placed before the Wells run, and in terms of her character development it makes more sense to just skip the Gillen run entirely and move straight from Rise of the New Mutants to the start of the Bendis run.

The other thing about Gillen's Illyana is that there is no other writer who treats her as 'cool background sword girl' more than Gillen. Even though she was on the main cast, she was pretty much background until her 'there are no snowflakes in hell' speech. I'd be less critical of that moment if there had been any sort of proper buildup to it, but there wasn't. He committed the 'tell don't show' sin about her being a different person than when she was missing her soul by only ever addressing the issue in a monologue by Danger. He could have shown her struggles, her growing realization that getting her soul back didn't heal her pain, even her being upset by Piotr's continued doting, anything to justify why she was more crazy than when she was missing her soul, but he never did. And the next time he wrote her during Secret Wars, she was just 'cool background lesbian sword girl' with less depth than ever and with no other purpose than fan service.


I don't hate Gillen. I think he wrote the best Cyclops since Uncanny 175 and he made me start to like that character again. I think he's one of the few writers to ever make Colossus a genuinely compelling character. I think his run was a breath of fresh air after the terrible Fraction run and the Extinction team was a great idea even if the execution was lacking. And I think AvX and the resultant editorial interference messed with many of his long-term plans. But his take on Illyana stands out as a missed opportunity and something that doesn't fit.

[Fokken]

[IMG]

From the New Mutants 24 preview. I don't understand. Even if Illyana's in a better place now and happy for the first time ever, this is completely out of character for her. Leaving aside the stupidity of the argument she's making, Illyana is the last person who'd want others to know everything about her and be completely open about herself. It's not like she suddenly changed into a person who would never keep a secret and is completely fine with everyone else knowing every last detail of the abuse she suffered in Limbo. I'm not sure which is worse between this and the recent soul sword idiocy. Wanting a world where everyone always understands everyone else perfectly is tantamount to wanting to give up her own identity.

Despite Illyana's slow burn but accelerating depiction of wanting to "be better" than their predecessors (stemming back from the Revolution/Bendis/Bachalo era and being more firmly emphasized in this golden age), in terms of reering the next generation and being strong role models, mutant pride etc etc.... perhaps this exchange would translate better if the dialogue was flipped?
Especially with Rictor's personal journey/growth within the age of Krakoa, maybe he should be the one positing this argument, and Illyana should be on the receiving end.

[sunofdarkchild]

Despite Illyana's slow burn but accelerating depiction of wanting to "be better" than their predecessors (stemming back from the Revolution/Bendis/Bachalo era and being more firmly emphasized in this golden age), in terms of reering the next generation and being strong role models, mutant pride etc etc.... perhaps this exchange would translate better if the dialogue was flipped?
Especially with Rictor's personal journey/growth within the age of Krakoa, maybe he should be the one positing this argument, and Illyana should be on the receiving end.

That could work. Rictor wanting to regain what he lost when Apocalypse left and lamenting whatever issues he is currently having with Shatterstar, while Illyana muses about how people don't understand themselves based on her past problems in that regard and the recent crisis with Farouk which was as much about him not understanding his own problems as it was about him causing problems. It even fits better with the last line referencing Rahne since Illyana has worked with Rahne more recently than Rictor did. Good idea, Fokken.

[Fokken]

That could work. Rictor wanting to regain what he lost when Apocalypse left and lamenting whatever issues he is currently having with Shatterstar, while Illyana muses about how people don't understand themselves based on her past problems in that regard and the recent crisis with Farouk which was as much about him not understanding his own problems as it was about him causing problems. It even fits better with the last line referencing Rahne since Illyana has worked with Rahne more recently than Rictor did. Good idea, Fokken.

Thank you, sunofdarkchild!! !!!!!

[sunofdarkchild]

So it does seem that Illyana sought out Rictor to talk to specifically because of his recent relationship with Apocalypse. She wants to take up what Apocalypse was doing in terms of 'mutant magic.' The ending has her coming to Madelyn and offering 'everything you ever wanted.'

Some are saying this means that Madelyn won't be the villain of the next arc, but I'd say it's too soon to jump to that conclusion. The idea of an X-Man deciding to trust a villain and that villain betraying them is very old hat. We also don't know what Illyana means with that 'everything you ever wanted' line. It isn't literally true since there was a time Madelyn wanted nothing more than to live happily with her husband and baby and another time when she wanted to kill her wife and baby. If Madelyn isn't the villain then it's probably N'Astirh again, though him and Madelyn could team up again.

[sunofdarkchild]

The X-Men are Building Their Own Mutant Hogwarts

[WallStreeter]

Despite Illyana's slow burn but accelerating depiction of wanting to "be better" than their predecessors (stemming back from the Revolution/Bendis/Bachalo era and being more firmly emphasized in this golden age), in terms of reering the next generation and being strong role models, mutant pride etc etc.... perhaps this exchange would translate better if the dialogue was flipped?
Especially with Rictor's personal journey/growth within the age of Krakoa, maybe he should be the one positing this argument, and Illyana should be on the receiving end.

It looks like Illyana will give up being Queen of Limbo to Madelyne, to free up time so she can concentrate on teaching young mutants magic as well as teaching at the Strange Academy.