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  1. #1
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    Default Illyana Rasputina/Magik Appreciation 2022

    Illyana, Magik, Darkchild, Sorceress Supreme, Queen of Limbo, Hell Lord, Great Captain of Krakoa, Little Snowflake. She's a woman of many names and many facets. Here's the place to discuss our favorite 'riddle wrapped within an enigma.'

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2021

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2020

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...reciation-2019

    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...k-Appreciation




  2. #2
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Happy New Year to Illyana and her fans .

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Happy New Year Magik fans and to Illyana sorceress of Limbo
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
    House of M Appreciation 2022

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  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Kind of strange that Magik would be considered underated. She appears in a lot of titles these days. She was also in Bendis and Gillen's X-Men runs if I remember correctly. She's the New Mutant member that made it to the big time. Well, to me at least.

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    Spectacular Member ComeOnBunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    Kind of strange that Magik would be considered underated. She appears in a lot of titles these days. She was also in Bendis and Gillen's X-Men runs if I remember correctly. She's the New Mutant member that made it to the big time. Well, to me at least.
    She is underrated because she is still B-List but should be A-List by now.

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    The argument in the article is that she deserves to ben more popular than Dr. Strange and the Scarlett Witch. Which regardless of how well she does in the comics is impossible until get gets a movie or TV show that doesn't suck and gets the basics or her character right, both of which the New Mutants failed utterly at.

    The standard I'd use is how well-known and popular she is is compared to Colossus. Colossus remains the most well-known Rasputin largely because of timing, number of appearances, and more and better appearances in other media. He was a mainstay of the flagship Uncanny book throughout the entire Claremont golden era, has been a recurring character since 1975 with the exception of the 3 or so years he was dead. He got 2 episodes focused on him in TAS, an extended cameo in X-Men 2, and pretty large roles in the Deadpool movies. Despite all that, he's not all that compelling when compared to characters with similar powersets like the Thing, the Hulk, or Luke Cage. Marvel has so many strongmen whose powers are 'super-strength+invulnerability' and Colossus does not stand out among them at all. Illyana by contrast was the star of a spin-off which while popular at the time became obscure soon after it ended instead of the flagship, was absent from the comics for almost 2 decades and even had much of her legacy destroyed so that another character could be shoe-horned into the role of Magik, only broke-out in the comics when sales had declined precipitously from their highs in the 80s and 90s, and her only appearances in movies and tv were as a supporting character for Colossus in one of his guest-star appearances in TAS and the abysmal New Mutants movie, which did not get many viewers and doesn't leave the few people who did see it with an accurate idea of who she is or what she can do. Her only good appearances outside of comics have been in mobile games. She stands out among Marvel's other magic users far more than Colossus stands out among Marvel's other strongmen, but because she only started breaking out when comics sales were a fraction of what they once were and has no good appearances in other media that aren't mobile games, he has far more name recognition than her.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Thievery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ComeOnBunny View Post
    She is underrated because she is still B-List but should be A-List by now.
    She is A-list in my heart. But, like I said in my first post, that's just my opinon.
    I still think that she get's more oppertunities to apear in more comics than some of her fans give her credit for.
    I think that what would help her is a chance at a solo comic. I know that times in the comic industry are tough when it comes to sales, but I think that Illyana could outsell Scarlett Witch. And I say that as someone who likes Scarlett Witch.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    The argument in the article is that she deserves to ben more popular than Dr. Strange and the Scarlett Witch. Which regardless of how well she does in the comics is impossible until get gets a movie or TV show that doesn't suck and gets the basics or her character right, both of which the New Mutants failed utterly at.

    The standard I'd use is how well-known and popular she is is compared to Colossus. Colossus remains the most well-known Rasputin largely because of timing, number of appearances, and more and better appearances in other media. He was a mainstay of the flagship Uncanny book throughout the entire Claremont golden era, has been a recurring character since 1975 with the exception of the 3 or so years he was dead. He got 2 episodes focused on him in TAS, an extended cameo in X-Men 2, and pretty large roles in the Deadpool movies. Despite all that, he's not all that compelling when compared to characters with similar powersets like the Thing, the Hulk, or Luke Cage. Marvel has so many strongmen whose powers are 'super-strength+invulnerability' and Colossus does not stand out among them at all. Illyana by contrast was the star of a spin-off which while popular at the time became obscure soon after it ended instead of the flagship, was absent from the comics for almost 2 decades and even had much of her legacy destroyed so that another character could be shoe-horned into the role of Magik, only broke-out in the comics when sales had declined precipitously from their highs in the 80s and 90s, and her only appearances in movies and tv were as a supporting character for Colossus in one of his guest-star appearances in TAS and the abysmal New Mutants movie, which did not get many viewers and doesn't leave the few people who did see it with an accurate idea of who she is or what she can do. Her only good appearances outside of comics have been in mobile games. She stands out among Marvel's other magic users far more than Colossus stands out among Marvel's other strongmen, but because she only started breaking out when comics sales were a fraction of what they once were and has no good appearances in other media that aren't mobile games, he has far more name recognition than her.
    I dont watch much TV or see very many movies, so I cant speak on the quality of that New Mutants movie. But, I would guess that her back story would make it hard for her to fit into a large movie cast. Being in the same movie as her brother might heplp that out. Who knows though.

    I'll disagree about Colossus. I think that he's a lot more interesting than guys like Luke Cage, The Thing, Wonderman or someone else of that type. Just my opinion, though

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Galerion's Avatar
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    I too agree with this article. Certainly with 1 and 2 on this list.

    The thing is the quantity of appearances is not really that meaningful in itself. It's also about the quality of them and many of the big characters have both.
    There is also the potential that a character offers and in that regard Magik is insane and far above many other characters. There is the mutant side of things which is fine I guess but the real kicker is the magic side of things because it is vast and limitless and only very few characters can even access it at all. Magik is one of them and there should be people gobbling it all up because it is a blank canvas where writers can let their creativity have free reign. But that is not what is happening so she is deservedly on the number 1 spot.
    Magik is good enough of a character that she is utilized in some way but in trivial ones. The final push is missing. That someone comes in and really wants to explore the entire depth of the character and who wants to add and contribute to the character in a meaningful way.

    Here is a good example. The Trial of Magneto. Wanda subconsciously summoned monsters who attacked the island and they were magical in nature. The X-Men and Avengers fought them and found out that they cannot defeat them. You would think that that would be the perfect opportunity for Magik to step up. Not necessarily to solve the problem on her own but to at least offer some kind of insight and help in finding the solution but nope. She literally shows up with the other Great Captains only after the solution was already found.
    A big aspect of the character ignored and wasted. Someone might respond with that they had a particular story to tell and Magik just didn't fit in it but honestly that is a garbage excuse. You know why? Because if it would have been Dr. Strange instead of Magik the story wouldn't have been written this way if we are honest.

    Anyway since there are a few hints that Wanda might stay on the X-side at least for while maybe Magik gets a few interactions or even stories in this way.
    Last edited by Galerion; 01-02-2022 at 06:45 AM.

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    It is interesting to see when Illyana's status as the resident expert in magic for the X-Men comes into play and when it doesn't. During Fear Itself Cyclops turned to Illyana specifically for her magical expertise and when the New Mutants wanted to use her for transportation she offered them her magical expertise instead. Dead Souls had her leading a team that was gathered specifically to investigate and deal with magical threats and her being the only one who knew anything about what they were facing most of the time. The Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier had her having the only good idea of anyone in the story in using a magical artifact to determine whether Mathew Malloy could be saved. The stories encompassing her return, Quest for Magik, X-Infernus, and Fall/Rise of the New Mutants are heavily dependent on her knowledge of magic to deal with the threat of each story. She's a teacher at Strange Academy even though she hasn't done very much in that series. The Captain Marvel future arc actually played with expectations by building up her power but focusing on her cunning instead. Emma, Carol, and the Enchantress all talked about how powerful she was but she never got a chance to show that, and yet the entire plot was based around her knowing things about magic and spells that the Enchantress didn't know and using that knowledge to outsmart the villains. Curse of the Man-Thing heavily relied on her expertise, since she knew everything about the Man-Thing and Ted Sallis' deal with Belasco and set everything up so that the good guys could win.

    Even with all that, most stories focus on her as a powerhouse and not as someone who has a wealth of knowledge about magical matters. There have been no stories that actually explore the fact that she's a hell lord and she's never met most of the other hell lords. There was no story where Krakoa faced a specifically magical threat which would prompt Cyclops to defer to Illyana as the expert and person best qualified to lead Krakoa's response to that specific threat.

    That being said, the next New Mutants arc is Magik vs the Goblin Queen for the throne of Limbo. That's about as magical a story as you can get. 'The Labors of Magik' is a reference to the myth of the 12 Labors of Hercules. I have very high expectations for this story.

  11. #11
    Spectacular Member ComeOnBunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thievery View Post
    She is A-list in my heart. But, like I said in my first post, that's just my opinon.
    I still think that she get's more oppertunities to apear in more comics than some of her fans give her credit for.
    I think that what would help her is a chance at a solo comic. I know that times in the comic industry are tough when it comes to sales, but I think that Illyana could outsell Scarlett Witch. And I say that as someone who likes Scarlett Witch.



    I dont watch much TV or see very many movies, so I cant speak on the quality of that New Mutants movie. But, I would guess that her back story would make it hard for her to fit into a large movie cast. Being in the same movie as her brother might heplp that out. Who knows though.

    I'll disagree about Colossus. I think that he's a lot more interesting than guys like Luke Cage, The Thing, Wonderman or someone else of that type. Just my opinion, though
    Giving Magik a solo comic or showcasing her more in comics has a higher chance of ruining her than helping her considering how bad writers are nowadays. There is a lot to explore with her being a Demon, Hell Lord, Mutant, Time Traveler, and Sorceress but what writer has been creative enough to write all those aspects of her besides Zeb Wells and Bendis? Instead I think a writer will just be lazy and think something lame like since Illyana has never been in a romantic relationship before I will leave my mark on her by putting her in a romantic relationship.

    Also the more writers and artists that get involved with her the higher the chance of something I dislike sticking and becoming iconic like Chris Bachalo's costume and Soul Sword design. I think writers should explore her time travel powers more the way Zeb Wells did before people forget she can travel through time.
    Last edited by ComeOnBunny; 01-02-2022 at 02:49 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    It is interesting to see when Illyana's status as the resident expert in magic for the X-Men comes into play and when it doesn't. During Fear Itself Cyclops turned to Illyana specifically for her magical expertise and when the New Mutants wanted to use her for transportation she offered them her magical expertise instead. Dead Souls had her leading a team that was gathered specifically to investigate and deal with magical threats and her being the only one who knew anything about what they were facing most of the time. The Last Will and Testament of Charles Xavier had her having the only good idea of anyone in the story in using a magical artifact to determine whether Mathew Malloy could be saved. The stories encompassing her return, Quest for Magik, X-Infernus, and Fall/Rise of the New Mutants are heavily dependent on her knowledge of magic to deal with the threat of each story. She's a teacher at Strange Academy even though she hasn't done very much in that series. The Captain Marvel future arc actually played with expectations by building up her power but focusing on her cunning instead. Emma, Carol, and the Enchantress all talked about how powerful she was but she never got a chance to show that, and yet the entire plot was based around her knowing things about magic and spells that the Enchantress didn't know and using that knowledge to outsmart the villains. Curse of the Man-Thing heavily relied on her expertise, since she knew everything about the Man-Thing and Ted Sallis' deal with Belasco and set everything up so that the good guys could win.

    Even with all that, most stories focus on her as a powerhouse and not as someone who has a wealth of knowledge about magical matters. There have been no stories that actually explore the fact that she's a hell lord and she's never met most of the other hell lords. There was no story where Krakoa faced a specifically magical threat which would prompt Cyclops to defer to Illyana as the expert and person best qualified to lead Krakoa's response to that specific threat.

    That being said, the next New Mutants arc is Magik vs the Goblin Queen for the throne of Limbo. That's about as magical a story as you can get. 'The Labors of Magik' is a reference to the myth of the 12 Labors of Hercules. I have very high expectations for this story.
    Umm...Do you actually know what a Helllord *IS*? Apprently not. Illyana may hold the title of a Hellord, but she clearly doesn't have the desire to *BE* one.

    You really need to talk to some D&D players if you're going to continue commenting about this stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcaguy View Post
    Umm...Do you actually know what a Helllord *IS*? Apprently not. Illyana may hold the title of a Hellord, but she clearly doesn't have the desire to *BE* one.

    You really need to talk to some D&D players if you're going to continue commenting about this stuff.
    You continue this tendency to dismiss everything that doesn't fit your rather narrow-minded interpretations. This is the Marvel Universe, not Dungeons and Dragons. Illyana is the ruler of Limbo, which makes her a hell lord whether she wants to be or not. The story potential of what can be done with that exists independently of whether she wants the role, and her not wanting it could open up entirely new story angles. There is no reason whatsoever they can't have stories where she has to interact with the likes of Mephisto or Hela because she is their fellow hell-lord. There is no reason whatsoever they can't have stories that explore what it means to be ruler of Limbo and a mortal who holds the same status as a being like Mephisto.

    Seriously, why come with this kind of tone into the first page of an appreciation thread?
    Last edited by sunofdarkchild; 01-02-2022 at 04:18 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    You continue this tendency to dismiss everything that doesn't fit your rather narrow-minded interpretations. This is the Marvel Universe, not Dungeons and Dragons. Illyana is the ruler of Limbo, which makes her a hell lord whether she wants to be or not. The story potential of what can be done with that exists independently of whether she wants the role, and her not wanting it could open up entirely new story angles. There is no reason whatsoever they can't have stories where she has to interact with the likes of Mephisto or Hela because she is their fellow hell-lord. There is no reason whatsoever they can't have stories that explore what it means to be ruler of Limbo and a mortal who holds the same status as a being like Mephisto.

    Seriously, why come with this kind of tone into the first page of an appreciation thread?
    It's easy when someone is basically tossing terms around without really understanding what they mean. Ilyana is not the typical Marvel Hellord even in her Darkchide incarnation. We basically saw that with Pixie. If anything she's more akin to being like Marvel's version of Loki at his very worst rather than being a Mephisto wannabe.
    Last edited by rcaguy; 01-02-2022 at 09:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcaguy View Post
    It's easy when someone is basically tossing terms around without really understanding what they mean. Ilyana is not the typical Marvel Hellord even in her Darkchide incarnation. We basically saw that with Pixie. If anything she's more akin to being like Marvel's version of Loki at his very worst rather than being a Mephisto wannabe.
    This is exactly what I mean when I say you dismiss everything that doesn't fit you narrow-minded definitions. You are the only person in the world who thinks being a hell lord means she has to be 100% like Mephisto. If being the ruler of Limbo doesn't make her into a Mephisto clone, than neither would interacting with Mephisto or Hela or Satannish. You see only one possible way such a story can go when in fact such a story is rife with untapped potential.

    Your arguments are truly horrendous. You result to insults and bring no evidence whatsoever to back up your claims and what little arguments you do have make you seem ignorant of how storytelling works. 'She doesn't want to be,' 'she's not a typical Marvel hell lord.' To any writer or reader these are reasons to pursue this sort of story. If a character not wanting to be something disqualifies them from ever being that thing then the entire Hero's Journey paradigm falls apart, as an essential part of that is the resistance to the call to adventure. And it is the exceptional members of the groups, the ones who stand out and are not 'typical,' that writers want to write about and readers want to read about.

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