Diamond Dame EMMA FROST appreciation

[Diammandis]

I don't remember what issue it was but I remember Colossus saw Emma as a friend, and she seemed to be getting along pretty well with Magik during the last Uncanny run.

It was in Fractions UXM run where Emma helped Piotr fight some thugs, and at the end he called Emma a very dear friend or something along those line which I felt was really nice and Magik did get along with Emma extremely well in Bendis' UXM and so did Alison

[Tycon]

Yeah it felt really weird that no one really asked Emma if she was okay, after them seeing Scott died even though he was a projection.

Yeah, Tyke just tattletales on Emma and Storm just reprimands her. During IVX #0, when Emma meets with Storm, she doesn't talk to Emma about how she's been, just "What are you doing here, peasant?" I guess you can argue that Young Bobby & Hank talked to her but that only happened because Emma approached them. No one ever went out of their way to help her except her Cuckoos.

The cuckoos did. I think during DofX. Emma's students have always supported her and understood her better than those who choose to think they're superior.

In my mind Emma was on the same level as Xavier and Magneto. She was an alternative to them both and it worked, until Fitzroy killed them all.

I actually can't think of any students that Emma taught that explicitly hated her.

[Diammandis]

Yeah, Tyke just tattletales on Emma and Storm just reprimands her. During IVX #0, when Emma meets with Storm, she doesn't talk to Emma about how she's been, just "What are you doing here, peasant?" I guess you can argue that Young Bobby & Hank talked to her but that only happened because Emma approached them. No one ever went out of their way to help her except her Cuckoos.



I actually can't think of any students that Emma taught that explicitly hated her.

Yeah no one actually really cared to see how Emma was, it felt horribly out of character for a lot of the X-men because most of them were somewhat close to Emma.

As much as people say Emma is a bad teacher, not many of her students really hate her tbh. A lot of the horrible things that happened to most of her students were simply out of her control really

[Ulfhammer]

Yeah, Tyke just tattletales on Emma and Storm just reprimands her. During IVX #0, when Emma meets with Storm, she doesn't talk to Emma about how she's been, just "What are you doing here, peasant?" I guess you can argue that Young Bobby & Hank talked to her but that only happened because Emma approached them. No one ever went out of their way to help her except her Cuckoos.

I think this has a lot to do with the perspective that Emma was "saved from villainy" by Scott. I know, I know, but hear me out for second. Scott had a lot to do with Emma becoming co-head of the school to begin with. So follow the logic: without Scott to advocate for her do you really think she would have been tolerated by Kitty during Whedon's run? Would she have really wanted or even had a reason to stay? If she chooses to leave I think the logic goes that the influences that moderate her somewhat hard line over the years would be gone and she would slowly have drifted back to the darker side.

Let's be clear that at one point long ago Emma was in a very dark place. People are capable of making these kinds of 180 degree turns on their own. But sustaining those changes usually requires support. If you don't believe me go to an AA meeting and ask those people how they stay sober. Like it or not Emma had critical support from Scott (and other x-men as well) at the right time to help her solidify that transition. Where the logic breaks down is that I don't think she's required that support for a long time. I still think it would have been more believable if Soule said Emma was suffering from PTSD which she had every right to be.

[SpiderClops]

Tone deaf writing. It's been happening since Avx, probably since first Civil War. It's because Marvel just wants to go from Point A to Point B with the characters, but have no idea or reason to do that. So they completely botch the middle.

"We need for Scott to be the most hated and worst mutant on the planet after AvX. How? No idea."
"We need for Scott to be the most hated and worst character after Secret Wars. How? No idea."
"We need for Emma to be the Bwahaha villain. How? No idea."

[Ulfhammer]

Tone deaf writing. It's been happening since Avx, probably since first Civil War. It's because Marvel just wants to go from Point A to Point B with the characters, but have no idea or reason to do that. So they completely botch the middle.

"We need for Scott to be the most hated and worst mutant on the planet after AvX. How? No idea."
"We need for Scott to be the most hated and worst character after Secret Wars. How? No idea."
"We need for Emma to be the Bwahaha villain. How? No idea."

Agreed but the more important question to think about it why. Why would Marvel character assassinate two of there biggest stars? If you understand that then the how doesn't matter because they were going to get there one way or the other.

[psionic]

after emma woke from her coma, she had turned her own back against her villain days. she helped run gen x, a decision he made herself. she went to genosha to teach, and she chose to stay to teach at xaviers. falling for scott was the bonus, not the prize people.

remember though she loved him, she wanted to go to the jean grey school and teach the children

[zeddfrost]

I think this has a lot to do with the perspective that Emma was "saved from villainy" by Scott. I know, I know, but hear me out for second. Scott had a lot to do with Emma becoming co-head of the school to begin with. So follow the logic: without Scott to advocate for her do you really think she would have been tolerated by Kitty during Whedon's run? Would she have really wanted or even had a reason to stay? If she chooses to leave I think the logic goes that the influences that moderate her somewhat hard line over the years would be gone and she would slowly have drifted back to the darker side.

Let's be clear that at one point long ago Emma was in a very dark place. People are capable of making these kinds of 180 degree turns on their own. But sustaining those changes usually requires support. If you don't believe me go to an AA meeting and ask those people how they stay sober. Like it or not Emma had critical support from Scott (and other x-men as well) at the right time to help her solidify that transition. Where the logic breaks down is that I don't think she's required that support for a long time. I still think it would have been more believable if Soule said Emma was suffering from PTSD which she had every right to be.

It's like a periodic bout of irritating illness, these Soule apologists.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Yeah no one actually really cared to see how Emma was, it felt horribly out of character for a lot of the X-men because most of them were somewhat close to Emma.

As much as people say Emma is a bad teacher, not many of her students really hate her tbh. A lot of the horrible things that happened to most of her students were simply out of her control really

Under Austen's Xmen (Which I know people hate)& Milligan's Xmen Emma got along with Havok, Rogue, Polaris, Iceman, Gambit....it was a decent run with Emma actually acting like Headmistress without Scott and it worked. She felt like a good balance between Morrison's Emma & her older self.

[Fantasy Free Me]

I think this has a lot to do with the perspective that Emma was "saved from villainy" by Scott. I know, I know, but hear me out for second. Scott had a lot to do with Emma becoming co-head of the school to begin with. So follow the logic: without Scott to advocate for her do you really think she would have been tolerated by Kitty during Whedon's run? Would she have really wanted or even had a reason to stay? If she chooses to leave I think the logic goes that the influences that moderate her somewhat hard line over the years would be gone and she would slowly have drifted back to the darker side.

I understand your point and I agree on some parts, but the one in bold is certainly not true, it's a wrong perspective used by people that ignore continuity like Soule. Emma stopped being a villain way before she even joined a team with Scott.

[WheelchairX]

I think many writers after Whedon just joined Cyclops and Emma, which made her a less independent character, unfortunately.

[Ulfhammer]

It's like a periodic bout of irritating illness, these Soule apologists.

I think you just might need a hug. Here's a hug for you!

Lb3vIJjaSIQWA.jpg

[DDM]

Under Austen's Xmen (Which I know people hate)& Milligan's Xmen Emma got along with Havok, Rogue, Polaris, Iceman, Gambit....it was a decent run with Emma actually acting like Headmistress without Scott and it worked. She felt like a good balance between Morrison's Emma & her older self.

Milligan's Emma was definitive imo. I loved her domineering over Havok and talking down to the rest.

[Ulfhammer]

I understand your point and I agree on some parts, but the one in bold is certainly not true, it's a wrong perspective used by people that ignores continuity like Soule. Emma stopped being a villain way before she even joined a team with Scott.

And I agree with what your are saying here. I was talking about Emma sustaining the changes she was making, not the circumstances of how she came to make the changes in the first place. Perhaps the more correct phrasing would have been "contributed to Emma not slipping back into villainy when she was vulnerable".

Every hero has gone through personal crap and needed help to either get back or stay back on their feet. Anyone remember this guy?

drunkclops.jpg

[Fantasy Free Me]

And I agree with what your are saying here. I was talking about Emma sustaining the changes she was making, not the circumstances of how she came to make the changes in the first place. Perhaps the more correct phrasing would have been "contributed to Emma not slipping back into villainy when she was vulnerable".

Every hero has gone through personal crap and needed help to either get back or stay back on their feet. Anyone remember this guy?

drunkclops.jpg

That's... questionable. I completely understand where you're going, and I kind of agree with some parts, my problem with it, specially Soule's disgusting take on the matter is that there's a difference between grieving and turning into a genocidal maniac like IvX's Emma. I mean, we can't deny that Emma and Scott influenced each other and they both grew as characters because of it, BUT, I seriously doubt that without Scott Emma would simply regress into a villain.

She was vulnerable, yes, but this is Emma Frost we're talking about, she has being through plenty of **** already, and Soule's take is simply not believable, that's the reason why IvX recieved so much ****, because it's like a poorly written fan fiction by a twelve year old.