Diamond Dame EMMA FROST appreciation

[comradepitrovsky]

Madelyn's first words were Jean's last words on the moon. Madelyn is Jean in every way that matters so I don't really buy that Maddie was Scott's non X-Men romance. She had some of Jean's memories, she was here exact genetic duplicate, and it was actually a portion of Jean's soul (that had been walking around as the Phoenix in the DPS) that was giving Maddie life. Inferno explains this all pretty clearly.

Right, I forgot how having different interests, personality traits, responses, and feelings means that you’re the same
person.

[WallStreeter]

Whose hoping to see Emma in X-Men Gifited?

[CuteClops]

The problem is that some of Jott fans want a fairytale between a 'virgin girl' and a repressed and perfect knight.

And that's why I don't want Jott anymore. That's why Emma is the best thing that ever happened to Scott Summers.

Okay, Jean and Scott could happen again. Yeah, but Jean need to learn some things from Emma.
Emma is the best female character in Marvel comics. She's perfect.

Some people say that 'without Scott, Emma is nothing'.
For me it's the opposite. Scott only grew up and became Mr. X-Men because of Emma Frost.

[PhoenixStudies]

I don't know if he's going for comedy or if the series is meant to be as serious as Messiah Complex. But the way they all stood over Cables body and shrug their shoulders and the Jeans Utopia/Dystopia makes me think he's going for the sitcom feel.

It’s Mel's Diner in Alice. There is a new girl in town and she's looking good, a fresh freckled face in the neighborhood. She's going through life with blinders on, its tough to see.

I still like it, but it is pretty weird. I want Jean to tell someone to kiss her grits!

And oh yeah, Emma rocks!

[Ulfhammer]

Right, I forgot how having different interests, personality traits, responses, and feelings means that you’re the same
person.

Quoted from another thread:

I basically consider her to be another Jean, just in a separate form. As if a person was split into two bodies. Phoenix was created from absorbing most of Jean's psyche. The Jean who came back in FF 286 was the rest of Jean that Phoenix hadn't touched, because this was the part of Jean that resisted the Phoenix and most stubbornly wanted to live (what Claremont calls a spark). Phoenix was essentially Jean because not only was she a genetic duplicate but she was powered by most of Jean's human psyche and consciousness. When Phoenix commits suicide, Jean's parts are supposed to be restored to her, but the Jean "spark" in the coccoon sees the horrific acts performed in her name and rejects these parts. These Jean parts go to the next best thing which is Madelyne.

XF-38-1.jpg

At this point, Maddie is just a body and that's all. She doesn't awake until the parts of Jean taken by Phoenix enter her and bring her to life, hence why her first words are the last words Phoenix said (Scott). She has Jean's childhood memories and other memories like Phoenix's death by flame, and little details like Scott's favorite breakfast. The rest is likely blocked off by Sinister and he remodels what memories she keeps in such a form to create a new pilot identity for her. Thus, Maddie also counts as Jean for me, because she literally was Jean/Phoenix, in body, mind, and soul. She certainly was different because of the background given to her by Sinister and this put her on a different direction than Jean. However, the major parts of her core were the same like loving Scott. As Maddie says, she couldn't help but love Scott because Phoenix had like Jean before her.

When Maddie learns the truth about herself, she goes mad with insanity, because I think she realizes that she's just an inferior version of her bitter rival. Before this, she could curse Jean as the other woman, but now she realizes why Jean gets to win, because Jean is the original, and she, Maddie, is the inferior copy so of course Scott would go to the original. This prompts her attempt to hurt Scott and Jean, because she blames Jean for her existence. She tells Jean this when she says that if Jean had simply taken her pieces back, she (Maddie) would never have existed and been brought into a pitiful existence that could hardly been called a life, because in truth, she never had life at all. She just had Jean's life. Thus, why the two women technically co-exist, but only at afar and without ever really meeting each other and why when they do, it ends in a fateful culmination of only one woman being able to survive. Maddie's suicidal at this point, because there is no life for her, but in a last vindictive act, she can take down the original as well...if not for the fact that she's composed of Jean herself and these Jean pieces (taking on the form of Phoenix) can finally be returned to Jean and make her whole again.

XF-38-2.jpg

She wouldn't have existed without those Jean pieces, which is why she especially hated Jean at that point and blamed her, perhaps even more than Sinister and Scott. And also why, when Jean gets these pieces of her back (including Phoenix and Maddie, two women who she technically never was but who were both her), what she wants most is to make Sinister pay.

[Ulfhammer]

The problem of Scott is any new role he would get if he resurrects will feel like a demotion in comparison to his Utopia days. You can't take orders from Kitty Pryde after that.
I think only something like director of Shield or SWORD would feel acceptable. He could date Maria Hill or Carol Danvers.
The other option is the opposite, decadent revolutionary icon with groupies for teens with Cyclops was Right shirts or tattoos.

I think it would be out of character for Scott to date Jean again because in Morrison's run you see that as much as he loved her, he wasn't happy with the life he had with her. To be acceptable for Jean, he kinda had to stay in the closet, live a very repressed life.

I think sexually Scemma was much better for Scott than for Emma.
Emma used to date Shaw, a dominant man who gains speed, stamina and strength during the sexual act through kinetic energy absorption, it's hard to think Scott with his repression and submission and desire for a dominatrix could match that. Scott loved every second of it but Emma did it out of love, not pleasure.

Emma was certainly a better fit for Scott 2.0 (post Morrison). I'm not sure I agree with the dark side of their relationship that you're alluding to though.

Following M-Day with mutants under constant risk of being wiped out I think Emma was the mutant leader and the partner that was needed. Jean would have likely gone the Storm route and counted on negotiations and good will to try to survive but Emma and Scott knew they couldn't take that kind of risk in the position mutants were in. Emma was both ruthless, capable and practical enough to ensure that Scott was making decisions that would keep both himself and mutants alive. That's my head canon on this at least. My sense was that their relationship was secondary the the constant struggle to protect mutants but it was probably that struggle that kept them together as long as they were, even after their romantic relationship ended.

[Vegeta]

The problem is that some of Jott fans want a fairytale between a 'virgin girl' and a repressed and perfect knight.

And that's why I don't want Jott anymore. That's why Emma is the best thing that ever happened to Scott Summers.

I agree, Scott and Jean is the "fairy tale" relationship, putting each other up on pedestals. Where as Emma and Scott is the type of relationship you see in real life. It's NOT perfect, but they are equal partners who make it work.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

I agree, Scott and Jean is the "fairy tale" relationship, putting each other up on pedestals. Where as Emma and Scott is the type of relationship you see in real life. It's NOT perfect, but they are equal partners who make it work.

Emma herself is far more "real" than the other Xmen. Her philosophy with students was to never apologize for who you are and to actually use your powers to make life easier. All the death and destruction she's lived through she's far more distrusting of humans and even the Avengers. Her attitude is what you'd expect from a battle hardened Xman instead of the "everything will be fine if we live together and love each other"

I really wish Marvel would separate the Xmen from the School...one is a militia team and the other is a school. They shouldn't be in the same place.

[MarvelMaster616]

I agree, Scott and Jean is the "fairy tale" relationship, putting each other up on pedestals. Where as Emma and Scott is the type of relationship you see in real life. It's NOT perfect, but they are equal partners who make it work.

I'm sorry, and I was hoping to avoid this topic, but how does Cyclops and Emma's (failed) relationship qualify as "real?" Their relationship consisted primarily of lurid bed scenes, witty quips, and the occasional jealousy gimmick (see Namor). That's not a real relationship. That's basically the only relationship you see in modern sitcom. It's not the least bit real. It's just played up for entertainment value. It's also woefully shallow. It was never that serious. It was never that deep. It was all playful sexy banter. That's not a real relationship. Those are bad puns on a rerun of Two and a Half Men. Like those in the show, relationships that shallow rarely last. As such, Cyclops and Emma broke up. That tells you all you need to know about the flaws in that relationship.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

I'm sorry, and I was hoping to avoid this topic, but how does Cyclops and Emma's (failed) relationship qualify as "real?" Their relationship consisted primarily of lurid bed scenes, witty quips, and the occasional jealousy gimmick (see Namor). That's not a real relationship. That's basically the only relationship you see in modern sitcom. It's not the least bit real. It's just played up for entertainment value. It's also woefully shallow. It was never that serious. It was never that deep. It was all playful sexy banter. That's not a real relationship. Those are bad puns on a rerun of Two and a Half Men. Like those in the show, relationships that shallow rarely last. As such, Cyclops and Emma broke up. That tells you all you need to know about the flaws in that relationship.

as opposed to Marvel simply telling you Jean & Scott were married and then them hardly ever being in the same comic, or doing anything together that couples do. Both sets were flawed and bad written at times.

To me Emma & Scott's relationship ended with the Phoenix. Jean wasn't the threat it was the Phoenix and his lust for power. Which I think puts it in a real realm of relationships. Couple break up because one of them has bigger aspirations and puts their career before their relationship. It plays out differently in comics, but essentially that's how it ended.

[Peanutsinspace]

as opposed to Marvel simply telling you Jean & Scott were married and then them hardly ever being in the same comic, or doing anything together that couples do. Both sets were flawed and bad written at times.

To me Emma & Scott's relationship ended with the Phoenix. Jean wasn't the threat it was the Phoenix and his lust for power. Which I think puts it in a real realm of relationships. Couple break up because one of them has bigger aspirations and puts their career before their relationship. It plays out differently in comics, but essentially that's how it ended.

I think that's a really good and pretty fair way to describe it. Neither relationship was perfect, both had flaws and temptations and both ended. They were different but neither was bad or wrong or whatever else. I'm not going to get into the 'who's relationship with Scott was better' argument (again) so I'll attempt to change the subject back to WallStreeter's question:

Whose hoping to see Emma in X-Men Gifited?

And on top of that, what actress would you want to play her?

[WhitePhoenix]

And on top of that, what actress would you want to play her?

Mira Sorvino, she just appeared last week on Modern Family. She still looks amazing, and would be the perfect age range to have the Frost daughters. Plus she’s an Oscar winner!
rsz_screen_shot_2018-01-22_at_50611_pm.jpg

[xhx23x]

This thread keeps getting sidetracked elsewhere. >_> let the dead be.

Mira Sorvino, she just appeared last week on Modern Family. She still looks amazing, and would be the perfect age range to have the Frost daughters. Plus she’s an Oscar winner!
rsz_screen_shot_2018-01-22_at_50611_pm.jpg

I'm down for this.

[Havok83]

as opposed to Marvel simply telling you Jean & Scott were married and then them hardly ever being in the same comic, or doing anything together that couples do. Both sets were flawed and bad written at times.

To me Emma & Scott's relationship ended with the Phoenix. Jean wasn't the threat it was the Phoenix and his lust for power. Which I think puts it in a real realm of relationships. Couple break up because one of them has bigger aspirations and puts their career before their relationship. It plays out differently in comics, but essentially that's how it ended.

Thats not true. Once they were married, Scott and Jean were pretty much joined at the hip until his "death" and Morrison's run. Prior to that, you will find that most comics which featured the characters, had them together. Morrison's portrayal of them was NOT the norm

[Ulfhammer]

I'm sorry, and I was hoping to avoid this topic, but how does Cyclops and Emma's (failed) relationship qualify as "real?" Their relationship consisted primarily of lurid bed scenes, witty quips, and the occasional jealousy gimmick (see Namor). That's not a real relationship. That's basically the only relationship you see in modern sitcom. It's not the least bit real. It's just played up for entertainment value. It's also woefully shallow. It was never that serious. It was never that deep. It was all playful sexy banter. That's not a real relationship. Those are bad puns on a rerun of Two and a Half Men. Like those in the show, relationships that shallow rarely last. As such, Cyclops and Emma broke up. That tells you all you need to know about the flaws in that relationship.

I think it's true that their relationship had some, ok maybe a lot of this. That said I recall moments where they supported each other and made life bearable for each other. There were some really not pretty moments either and some that were more than a little on the shallow side but I think you're selling the relationship somewhat short on the whole. There was a mutual respect at work through most of their relationship, they shared a passion for protecting mutants, and beyond that often I think the other was on a very short list of people they could truly trust. They had their moments, at least for me, but clearly it's very subjective. Despite how it ended, Emma and Scott were commited to the cause that brought them together in the first place and remained so to the end of their partnership (read life in Scott's case).

I don't think it's constructive to try and compare this to Scott's relationship with Jean, for a lot of reasons. I've come to a place where I can appreciate elements of the relationship on it's own merits without trying to make comparisons with others. Jean was dead and gone. It was altogether healthy in a lot of ways for Scott to move on as well and to accept that moving on meant a relationship that was going to be different than what he had with Jean. I think it would have been nice for Scott to go through a tad longer, okay a much longer, grieving process than he did but moving on was what he always sucked at and he needed to do it here. I hope the same for Emma now that Scott's gone.