Diamond Dame EMMA FROST appreciation

[Havok83]

Does anyone think Emma was originally slated for Havok's positioning in this story, but enough fan outcry made Marvel change their minds and put Havok in Emma's position?

I'm not understanding Havok's descent or where this new attitude comes from...

Thats exactly what happened as this is too inconsistent with their portrayal in SE. Havok was her lacky as she was the one being treated as the villian mastermind. Now he is the one calling shots and she is opposing her allies. Havok is too over the top. Initially I thought he joined up with Emma to betray the Mothervine crew but that role is now Emma's

[Fantasy Free Me]

Does anyone think Emma was originally slated for Havok's positioning in this story, but enough fan outcry made Marvel change their minds and put Havok in Emma's position?

I'm not understanding Havok's descent or where this new attitude comes from...

Ehhh.. It could be Marvel simply not following their own continuity like they do most of the times. I don't think they changed it because of the fan outcry, even though it certainly looks like the roles have reversed.

By the end of the Blue SE tie-ins it looked like Emma was "in charge" with Havok helping her, this changed to Havok being on the lead pretty much, an Emma questioning the whole deal.

I don't know if it was changed or on purpose, but it makes sense: Emma betraying them is a start to her redemption, and since Alex is inverted that would explain his "villainous" take on the situation. Even though this Havok reads WAY different to the one that appeared on one of Uncanny's last issues, DOX and IVX.

[AbnormallyNormal]

I think it's true Emma has a bigger/louder fandom and probably Bunn "felt the heat" as it were and rushed the reformation of Emma. Havok at the end of IvX was still inverted but he wasn't this cackling caricature that he's being portrayed as in BLUE.

[Havok83]

I think it's true Emma has a bigger/louder fandom and probably Bunn "felt the heat" as it were and rushed the reformation of Emma. Havok at the end of IvX was still inverted but he wasn't this cackling caricature that he's being portrayed as in BLUE.

There was nothing in IvX that stated or implied that he was. I remember making noise about him being so to Bunn on Twitter and i think he ran with that to throw Alex under the bus

[CuteClops]

Ehhh.. It could be Marvel simply not following their own continuity like they do most of the times. I don't think they changed it because of the fan outcry, even though it certainly looks like the roles have reversed.

By the end of the Blue SE tie-ins it looked like Emma was "in charge" with Havok helping her, this changed to Havok being on the lead pretty much, an Emma questioning the whole deal.

I don't know if it was changed or on purpose, but it makes sense: Emma betraying them is a start to her redemption, and since Alex is inverted that would explain his "villainous" take on the situation. Even though this Havok reads WAY different to the one that appeared on one of Uncanny's last issues, DOX and IVX.

Exactly. Alex was no longer inverted at the end of Uncanny and IvX.

He was the one who suggested the whole Scott's peace speech in Washington.

[AbnormallyNormal]

Exactly. Alex was no longer inverted at the end of Uncanny and IvX.

He was the one who suggested the whole Scott's peace speech in Washington.

I think the fact he hung around with Emma during IvX shows he still was. The end of Uncanny can be attributed to error/changed mind

[CuteClops]

I think the fact he hung around with Emma during IvX shows he still was. The end of Uncanny can be attributed to error/changed mind

Respectfully, I disagree. Emma was right until the last edition of IvX.

He stood by Emma's side in the end in honor of his brother, which I think is a very noble reason.

[Havok83]

I think the fact he hung around with Emma during IvX shows he still was. The end of Uncanny can be attributed to error/changed mind

All the X-men hung around Emma. Are they accused of being villians? Alex didn’t hang around her. He didn’t show up till the end and that was to save her from Medusa’s wrath. That was a noble act and I think he did it for Scott bc he knew she was grieving. Nothing about that suggested he was inverted. Bunn then had him act like a psychopath in SE which was uncharacteristic of him since the end of AXIS. That could have easily been explained away as Emma using the cosmic cube to control him as she did with the others but the recent issues confirm the inversion

[Fokken]

I DO often wonder how much ego/self-esteem plays into a writer's decision making regarding their script/plotting.

Specifically in the case of Emma -- IF the intention was to have Emma be the harder/eviler of the two (she and Alex) but the reading would imply that direction shifting -- again, IF that was the intention -- IS the fan outcry a factor? Or was this Bunn's plan all along? Do writers seek the approval of the readership, or is it more just a job for them?

I wonder how many, if any, creative types SHIFT their direction based on audience reaction.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

I DO often wonder how much ego/self-esteem plays into a writer's decision making regarding their script/plotting.

Specifically in the case of Emma -- IF the intention was to have Emma be the harder/eviler of the two (she and Alex) but the reading would imply that direction shifting -- again, IF that was the intention -- IS the fan outcry a factor? Or was this Bunn's plan all along? Do writers seek the approval of the readership, or is it more just a job for them?

I wonder how many, if any, creative types SHIFT their direction based on audience reaction.

maybe it's more of an "inside the box" thing.

He has it plotted out, he wrote it, submitted it, but didn't read it when it was published as an comic...or didn't read it the way we have...so to him it makes sense on paper, but the execution isn't the same.

[Maestroneto]

I think Soule said Havok was not inverted anymore in IvX.

I wonder how many, if any, creative types SHIFT their direction based on audience reaction.

At Marvel, very rarely. Brevoort outright admitted their business model relies largely on fan outrage.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Marvel and more specifically Marvel editors don't care about the opinions of fans because they know comic fans are a special kind of customer...they'll buy something even if they hate it, so there's absolute zero incentive to change

[CuteClops]

At Marvel, very rarely. Brevoort outright admitted their business model relies largely on fan outrage.

Marvel and more specifically Marvel editors don't care about the opinions of fans because they know comic fans are a special kind of customer...they'll buy something even if they hate it, so there's absolute zero incentive to change

Well, that doesn't really work for me.

[xhx23x]

I think it's just a matter of inconsistancy from Bunn's part. I very much doubt he changed his mind mid way, just that he figured the whole SE Emma trying to mind whammy Tyke was meant to be taken as some sort of rock bottom and maybe shift her priorities while with Havok we had never got any insight on him so I think that Bunn either is saving that for the upcoming issues or just thinks that as long as he keeps it vague no one will fuss about it.

I have said from the start, my biggest problem with Emma and Havok here is that they're not regulars in books so a lot of their actions relies in a lot of assumptions on our part if the writers are not clear. So Emma comes off a bit bipolarish which you can explain away as her grief process and Hacok cartonish which they want us to explain away with AXIS.

I really hope that once we get our new status quo, AGAIN, the editors pay at least partial attention going forward to stuff like this.

[Wiccan]

I think Havok becoming the main villain instead of Emma is due to the focus of the book shifting from the O5 to the new team. Emma is a relevant villain for Scott and Jean. For Magneto and Polaris? Havok is a much better fit.