The Avengers Appreciation 2022

[Omega Alpha]

So was Aaron's Thor run really that successful enough that Marvel allows him carte blanche to do whatever he wants?

I don't know if it's so much that Aaron has carte blanche but rather than editors don't give a crap. Percy is doing at least much damage in X-force and Marvel is letting him do what he wants too.

[Frontier]

Preview's out for Avengers Assembled:

https://aiptcomics.com/2022/11/23/ma...emble-alpha-1/

The art is, of course, stellar. Hitch is a master of his craft. However, seeing the avengers finally cross with their ancient counterparts here, ~70+ issues into the run boils my blood.

This was the statement for Aaron's run--spelled out in the FCBD issue even before his #1. But its been on the back-burner for so long--so long--that it hasn't just burned down to char, but taken out the kitchen and the whole block with it. How has the story strayed so far off of this course? Why was the first arc in 2018 a complete set-up fest for a 2022-2023 story?

Aaron himself has done it so much better before.

I'm reminded of Howard the Jugger-duck, Donny Cates's one page spoof of a Cyttorak-possessed Howard the Duck. Aaron, at his worst, plays this tune straight--heroes and villains wielding the most magical, special and poignant aspects of Marvel mythology like clubs and duking it out while the universe crumbles. There's no splendor, only power levels and neat visuals. Bummer.

And of course yet another dig at Odin .

[king of hybrids]

And of course yet another dig at Odin .

All the kids are doing it these days.

I’m going to put myself out on a very lonely limb and say that with 2 exceptions (Odin himself and the Million BC thing) I really like the ancient avengers mixes. I just don’t trust Aaron to write them

Also, the title of Chairman should be replaced by ‘Avenger Prime’, just because

[Tien Long]

I guess to me it just comes off as a lot of flash and randomness without a lot of substance, and plenty of characters just feeling off or being dragged around by whatever crazy ideas Aaron has.

Like, what's the point of connecting Thor with the Phoenix Force? Thor can use fire? What? Making Aaron's Odin look worse by the issue?

But we'd miss out on a lot of great comics.

It's out of left field, yes. Before Aaron's run, the Phoenix Force never acknowledged Thor for decades. You didn't see Thor playing a huge role in the Dark Phoenix Saga, right?

Still, I like the idea. We see this bridging between concepts in the Marvel Universe, the Phoenix Force and Odin. To a larger extent, we see this bridging between the X-Men universe and the Avengers one. As someone who saw how those two sections of the Marvel Universe rarely crossed over in the past, I'm liking how there is this acknowledgement. So in one sense, this Odin/Phoenix pairing builds connections.

On a more intimate level, the relationship brought up all of these family dynamics. Thor's reaction to his parentage or Odin's warning to the Phoenix to stay away from his son reminded me of kids who are caught in messy divorces or who find out about their true birth parents. There's anger, frustration, denial, and especially questions. Why didn't mom and dad tell me about that? So the person who raised me wasn't my real parent? So my parents hated each other? Does that make a difference? It shouldn't....but it kinda does. Take all of that and blow it up on a larger scale. Instead of an angry kid punching a wall, you have an angry Thor punching the Destroyer armor. You see this combination of the very human and the very mythological there. Is Odin thrown under the bus? Perhaps. However, I always got the impression that Odin wasn't this pinnacle of virtue. He was a badass Santa Claus with a temper. I'd expect him to make those mistakes.

In any case, some other thoughts:

- Yep, in the Avengers Alpha #1 preview, that is a Moon Knight. He was introduced a couple of issues ago.

- It's interesting to read about Aaron's pacing. We mentioned before that his stories can go very quickly. And now we say it's taking him too long to get to this point! Again, there has to be a sweet spot he can hit with this pacing.

[Frontier]

It's out of left field, yes. Before Aaron's run, the Phoenix Force never acknowledged Thor for decades. You didn't see Thor playing a huge role in the Dark Phoenix Saga, right?

Still, I like the idea. We see this bridging between concepts in the Marvel Universe, the Phoenix Force and Odin. To a larger extent, we see this bridging between the X-Men universe and the Avengers one. As someone who saw how those two sections of the Marvel Universe rarely crossed over in the past, I'm liking how there is this acknowledgement. So in one sense, this Odin/Phoenix pairing builds connections.

On a more intimate level, the relationship brought up all of these family dynamics. Thor's reaction to his parentage or Odin's warning to the Phoenix to stay away from his son reminded me of kids who are caught in messy divorces or who find out about their true birth parents. There's anger, frustration, denial, and especially questions. Why didn't mom and dad tell me about that? So the person who raised me wasn't my real parent? So my parents hated each other? Does that make a difference? It shouldn't....but it kinda does. Take all of that and blow it up on a larger scale. Instead of an angry kid punching a wall, you have an angry Thor punching the Destroyer armor. You see this combination of the very human and the very mythological there. Is Odin thrown under the bus? Perhaps. However, I always got the impression that Odin wasn't this pinnacle of virtue. He was a badass Santa Claus with a temper. I'd expect him to make those mistakes.

In any case, some other thoughts:

- Yep, in the Avengers Alpha #1 preview, that is a Moon Knight. He was introduced a couple of issues ago.

- It's interesting to read about Aaron's pacing. We mentioned before that his stories can go very quickly. And now we say it's taking him too long to get to this point! Again, there has to be a sweet spot he can hit with this pacing.

I guess just to me it just doesn't feel natural or necessary at all, especially since it relies so much on a crack-ship pairing (Odin and the Phoenix) that once again serves to just make Odin look bad, but that's pretty par for the course for Aaron since this Thor run.

I don't need Odin to be a paragon of virtue but he just doesn't read to me at all as the character of past Thor comics and more like an outlet for every bad father issue in fiction. And every time Aaron writes him he just keeps doubling-down on that.

[Panic]

Is Odin thrown under the bus? Perhaps. However, I always got the impression that Odin wasn't this pinnacle of virtue. .

Which Thor runs have you read?

[Mantis-Ray]

The thing with Odin is that Aaron goes to the absolute opposite extreme of being a pinnacle of virtue, instead he's a worthless sack of crap who's never done anything good for anything and is a blithering drunken moron

Even God of War Ragnarok's Odin who is a more negative portrayal of the character, is a far more complicated and nuanced figure than anything Aaron has ever written with Odin

[king of hybrids]

Aaron’s premise is that all deities are evil without exception, and Thor is superhero for carrying on despite this damning condition.

The Olympians would have gotten the same if A)the Greek gods weren’t already pretty awful and B) Ewing already turned them into bloodthirsty easily disposed of space pirates

[Frontier]

Aaron’s premise is that all deities are evil without exception, and Thor is superhero for carrying on despite this damning condition.

The Olympians would have gotten the same if A)the Greek gods weren’t already pretty awful and B) Ewing already turned them into bloodthirsty easily disposed of space pirates

But it's even better when Thor is actually genuinely human and call tell off the Gods with her awesome humanness and hammer.

[Tien Long]

Which Thor runs have you read?

Not many I suppose. Still, has he been depicted always as wise and righteous, like in the Simonson run? Perhaps saying he was virtuous was a bit too much. I've read in the past that he was stern.

I guess as someone who hasn't seen many renditions of Odin in the past, I'm more open to Aaron's interpretation of Odin. There are new dimensions of fallibility, but does that take away from him being the All-Father? The strict, authoritarian ruler who had to teach his son humility? The badass warrior king who's gone against Surtur and Thanos? I still feel he's a great character.

Bringing it back, I am appreciative of Aaron's run on Avengers. The preview for Avengers Alpha looks great. It's taken a while to see all of these forces come together, but here they are. Speaking of which, I hope that future writers do pick up on some of those threads. I'd like to see modern day Iron Fist or Black Panther refer to these Stone Age antecedents. At the very least, there should be a clarity of connection, which I'll admit, Aaron didn't firmly explain. Before Aaron, we knew who was the first Iron Fist and Black Panther. Now we have even more ancient antecedents who predate those established progenitors by several hundreds of thousands of years. That is something that has to be resolved.

[Frontier]

Not many I suppose. Still, has he been depicted always as wise and righteous, like in the Simonson run? Perhaps saying he was virtuous was a bit too much. I've read in the past that he was stern.

I guess as someone who hasn't seen many renditions of Odin in the past, I'm more open to Aaron's interpretation of Odin. There are new dimensions of fallibility, but does that take away from him being the All-Father? The strict, authoritarian ruler who had to teach his son humility? The badass warrior king who's gone against Surtur and Thanos? I still feel he's a great character.

Bringing it back, I am appreciative of Aaron's run on Avengers. The preview for Avengers Alpha looks great. It's taken a while to see all of these forces come together, but here they are. Speaking of which, I hope that future writers do pick up on some of those threads. I'd like to see modern day Iron Fist or Black Panther refer to these Stone Age antecedents. At the very least, there should be a clarity of connection, which I'll admit, Aaron didn't firmly explain. Before Aaron, we knew who was the first Iron Fist and Black Panther. Now we have even more ancient antecedents who predate those established progenitors by several hundreds of thousands of years. That is something that has to be resolved.

Personally? To me? Yeah. Because he comes off so aggressive, incompetent, and unlikeable that you have to wonder how he ever held the position of All-Father or the love of his people as long as he did when everyone seems to hate him and everything he does seems to go wrong.

[Alex_Of_X]

Personally? To me? Yeah. Because he comes off so aggressive, incompetent, and unlikeable that you have to wonder how he ever held the position of All-Father or the love of his people as long as he did when everyone seems to hate him and everything he does seems to go wrong.

I actually grew to love loser Odin lmao.


First time I met him was during JMS, when he was deceased and fighting an eternal battle against Surtur in the afterlife. That was OG Odin: the kind, thoughtful patriarch, best father a God could hope for. It was a lovely issue.

The original status quo went thus: Odin was a great guy, but his two toddlers--Thor and Loki--were awful snots. Thor learned humility; Loki didn't. It was perfectly fine as a stepping stone, but lost its luster when Thor actually became king of Asgard (under JMS).

How do you do Odin subservient to Thor? Well, you either retire him (Old Man Steve Rogers comes to mind), or have him actually challenge his son for power. And there's emotional truth here: IRL Kings aren't benevolent geezers, they're foolish, inbred, power mad sickos. For Thor to be a "Good King," there must be a "Bad King" for him to overcome.

TL;DR: Grumpy Odin is fun cause he's more J. Jonah Jameson, than Aunt May

[Felipe Silveira]

I haven't read Avengers in a few months, but apparently Aaron is still the same. Poor Namor stuck with this writer. And Thor, who even with another writer, keeps getting kicked by Aaron.

[Frontier]

I actually grew to love loser Odin lmao.


First time I met him was during JMS, when he was deceased and fighting an eternal battle against Surtur in the afterlife. That was OG Odin: the kind, thoughtful patriarch, best father a God could hope for. It was a lovely issue.

The original status quo went thus: Odin was a great guy, but his two toddlers--Thor and Loki--were awful snots. Thor learned humility; Loki didn't. It was perfectly fine as a stepping stone, but lost its luster when Thor actually became king of Asgard (under JMS).

How do you do Odin subservient to Thor? Well, you either retire him (Old Man Steve Rogers comes to mind), or have him actually challenge his son for power. And there's emotional truth here: IRL Kings aren't benevolent geezers, they're foolish, inbred, power mad sickos. For Thor to be a "Good King," there must be a "Bad King" for him to overcome.

TL;DR: Grumpy Odin is fun cause he's more J. Jonah Jameson, than Aunt May

I guess just to me the issue is that it just doesn't track with so many stories that came before and feels like it's doubling down on something they don't need to double down on.

And I don't think Odin needs to be a bad king any more than T'Challa needs to be seen as a bad king (but that's a whole 'nother story). Of course even Thor in his own ongoing considers himself a bad king.

[Mantis-Ray]

I guess just to me the issue is that it just doesn't track with so many stories that came before and feels like it's doubling down on something they don't need to double down on.

And I don't think Odin needs to be a bad king any more than T'Challa needs to be seen as a bad king (but that's a whole 'nother story). Of course even Thor in his own ongoing considers himself a bad king.

The worst part is its just not interesting and its one-note.

Odin here is a drunk ****, thats it. There's no nuance, no hidden meaning, no complex bits of characterization, he is a flat depthless unlikable character now plain and simple.

The whole Phoenix reveal is telling cause it completely removes any agency Odin had in conceiving Thor. Thor only exists because Phoenix convinced Gaea to do so to produce a super God. Odin meanwhile had absolutely nothing to do with anything beyond having sperm.