Wonder Man Appreciation 2022

[OBrianTallent]

I would love for Wonder Man to make it to the screen. One of the things I have never gotten is why is ok for an actor of color to take the role of a white character but not the other way around? How much backlash would there have been had say Ryan Gosling had been cast as T'Challa? There was such an uproar when Tilda Swenson was cast as the Ancient One, there was even one when Finn Jones was cast as Iron Fist...and that character is white.
My issue with racebending characters to actors is this...let's say an african american boy watches Wonder Man and wants to know more about him because he loves the character so his mom takes him to a comic book store and he starts looking through back issues....but there's no black Wonder Man. He just finds a white guy. Is he going to buy that book? Not likely. Is he going to get invested in any other comic book characters? Possibly not.
I remember reading something (somewhere) about when Ryan Reynolds was cast as Hal Jordan. More than a few people were pissed that they were putting out a Green Lantern movie with a white actor because as they saw it, Green Lantern was a black character--their only relation with the character was from the animated Justice League series. Granted the GL movie was a bust, but at the least there are characters of color within the GL ranks. With Disney and Marvel's desire for synchronicity across their mediums, how is this reflecting that or even the character who appears in comics?
Maybe the show will be excellent. I hope it is actually. But it's not going to be the character I have wanted to see on the screen.

[80sbaby]

I would love for Wonder Man to make it to the screen. One of the things I have never gotten is why is ok for an actor of color to take the role of a white character but not the other way around? How much backlash would there have been had say Ryan Gosling had been cast as T'Challa? There was such an uproar when Tilda Swenson was cast as the Ancient One, there was even one when Finn Jones was cast as Iron Fist...and that character is white.
My issue with racebending characters to actors is this...let's say an african american boy watches Wonder Man and wants to know more about him because he loves the character so his mom takes him to a comic book store and he starts looking through back issues....but there's no black Wonder Man. He just finds a white guy. Is he going to buy that book? Not likely. Is he going to get invested in any other comic book characters? Possibly not.
I remember reading something (somewhere) about when Ryan Reynolds was cast as Hal Jordan. More than a few people were pissed that they were putting out a Green Lantern movie with a white actor because as they saw it, Green Lantern was a black character--their only relation with the character was from the animated Justice League series. Granted the GL movie was a bust, but at the least there are characters of color within the GL ranks. With Disney and Marvel's desire for synchronicity across their mediums, how is this reflecting that or even the character who appears in comics?
Maybe the show will be excellent. I hope it is actually. But it's not going to be the character I have wanted to see on the screen.

Well to answer your question it's because, historically, POCs have been marginalized due to actual racist policies and attitudes. You're comparing apples to oranges based on superficial reasons. You need to actually look at WHY the reverse is considered wrong instead of simply saying "same thing" when it clearly isn't. Whitewashing is frowned upon because it's reading the cultural identity of the characters, as in the case of something like Black Panther. Not to mention the entire point is Wakanda is isolationist and the characters race/ethnicity plays a hugely important part of their characterization. It's deeper than simply skin color.

What I don't understand is how people don't get that since it's been explained ad nauseam at this point?

[Digifiend]

No longer a rumour it seems. They are indeed talking to Yahya Abdul-Mateen II about playing Simon.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...st-1235244373/

I think I know why they're race-lifting him. Riri. She has the same last name, maybe he'll be her uncle, unlike in the comics where they're completely unconnected?

[king kazma]

[Galerion]

Well to answer your question it's because, historically, POCs have been marginalized due to actual racist policies and attitudes. You're comparing apples to oranges based on superficial reasons. You need to actually look at WHY the reverse is considered wrong instead of simply saying "same thing" when it clearly isn't. Whitewashing is frowned upon because it's reading the cultural identity of the characters, as in the case of something like Black Panther. Not to mention the entire point is Wakanda is isolationist and the characters race/ethnicity plays a hugely important part of their characterization. It's deeper than simply skin color.

What I don't understand is how people don't get that since it's been explained ad nauseam at this point?

You already know why. I won't be getting involved in conversations like this but it will certainly come up again and again because that's unfortunately how some people function. Im personally content with the casting. The MCU casting has been impeccable and I don't see that changing.

Hehe
Comments from other sites make it already obvious that this will be a popular talking point too. That being said MCU Vision and Wonder Man share no connection with each other that we know of so it's not clear cut.

[Chris0013]

I would love for Wonder Man to make it to the screen. One of the things I have never gotten is why is ok for an actor of color to take the role of a white character but not the other way around? How much backlash would there have been had say Ryan Gosling had been cast as T'Challa? There was such an uproar when Tilda Swenson was cast as the Ancient One, there was even one when Finn Jones was cast as Iron Fist...and that character is white.
My issue with racebending characters to actors is this...let's say an african american boy watches Wonder Man and wants to know more about him because he loves the character so his mom takes him to a comic book store and he starts looking through back issues....but there's no black Wonder Man. He just finds a white guy. Is he going to buy that book? Not likely. Is he going to get invested in any other comic book characters? Possibly not.
I remember reading something (somewhere) about when Ryan Reynolds was cast as Hal Jordan. More than a few people were pissed that they were putting out a Green Lantern movie with a white actor because as they saw it, Green Lantern was a black character--their only relation with the character was from the animated Justice League series. Granted the GL movie was a bust, but at the least there are characters of color within the GL ranks. With Disney and Marvel's desire for synchronicity across their mediums, how is this reflecting that or even the character who appears in comics?
Maybe the show will be excellent. I hope it is actually. But it's not going to be the character I have wanted to see on the screen.

I am with you on this. As far as I am concerned all race swapping is wrong. Keep the characters as true to the source material as possible. There are any number of black characters he could have been cast to play in either a solo movie or supporting role or team movie.

The "whitewashing is wrong...but the other way is fine because..." just sound like hypocrites to me.

[skyvolt2000]

I am with you on this. As far as I am concerned all race swapping is wrong. Keep the characters as true to the source material as possible. There are any number of black characters he could have been cast to play in either a solo movie or supporting role or team movie.

The "whitewashing is wrong...but the other way is fine because..." just sound like hypocrites to me.

While that is 100% true and a logical way to go.

The issue is how much material do some of the already established black characters have? Especially material that shows them in a decent to excellent light.

Excluding Deathlok, NightWatch, Blue Marvel, Brother Voodoo, Mosaic, Reno Jones & Nightmask-every other black male who held a solo or mini has sniffed live action (Night Thrasher almost twice).

Who among that 6 would you give a shot to? If a certain rumor about Black Panther WF is true-Voodoo should be that choice. BLue Marvel with his relationship with Spectrum would be an option.


Also we seem to KEEP seeing this battle with doing anything with a black character in certain parts of the fandom. SOMEONE finds a way to have an issue with it.

I mean it comes down to which set whines the most-the group that has an issue with Simon being black or this being a Night Thrasher series starring Yahya.

[Chris0013]

While that is 100% true and a logical way to go.

The issue is how much material do some of the already established black characters have? Especially material that shows them in a decent to excellent light.

Excluding Deathlok, NightWatch, Blue Marvel, Brother Voodoo, Mosaic, Reno Jones & Nightmask-every other black male who held a solo or mini has sniffed live action (Night Thrasher almost twice).

Who among that 6 would you give a shot to? If a certain rumor about Black Panther WF is true-Voodoo should be that choice. BLue Marvel with his relationship with Spectrum would be an option.


Also we seem to KEEP seeing this battle with doing anything with a black character in certain parts of the fandom. SOMEONE finds a way to have an issue with it.

I mean it comes down to which set whines the most-the group that has an issue with Simon being black or this being a Night Thrasher series starring Yahya.

I would love to see Denzel Washington as Adam Brashear. Or for Joh Huertas to get his shot at White Tiger. Marvel has a lot of diverse characters that they can adapt into the MCU if they just did it instead of coming up with reasons to race swap in the name of diversity.

[Tien Long]

Keeping true to the source material vs. revitalization with new talent. Race, like many other aspects, is an essential component of the character and should be preserved. Race, like many factors, is not essential to the character and doesn't need to be preserved. Correcting past power imbalances and stereotypes must be done vs. is this the proper way to do so?

Whatever the debate comes up, I always pitch in multiple camps. Now the debate comes to a fan favorite of mine with Wonder Man.

My response to all of the debate now is what it has been for a while: that this is an interpretation, merely another version of my favorite character. The movie version is just another version. There will always be the comic version. And I have seen Yahya's interpretation of Black Manta in Aquaman and was very impressed. I think he'll do a great job of showing Simon's issues of self-doubt, steadiness, good nature, and humor. Plus, I'm hoping to see him smashing stuff up in Simon's purple ionic form.

Ultimately, I think this is a great way for other individuals to who have been marginalized to get the spotlight. I also hope that people realize that the loss of an aspect of a character still resonates, even with those individuals we consider privileged. And I also hope that this is leading to a day when even though we'll still have wonderful distinctions, the distinctions won't matter. The character, regardless who plays him, her, they, it, etc., will be all we care about.

That's a long way off, I know. And there's a lot that still needs to be done. But still hoping one day.

[mugiwara]

While that is 100% true and a logical way to go.

The issue is how much material do some of the already established black characters have? Especially material that shows them in a decent to excellent light.

Excluding Deathlok, NightWatch, Blue Marvel, Brother Voodoo, Mosaic, Reno Jones & Nightmask-every other black male who held a solo or mini has sniffed live action (Night Thrasher almost twice).

Who among that 6 would you give a shot to? If a certain rumor about Black Panther WF is true-Voodoo should be that choice. BLue Marvel with his relationship with Spectrum would be an option.

Does it really matter? The GoG have two very successful movies that use very little from their comics.
The characters don't have the same personnality, and I don't think they ever fought Ego in the comics.

Same with Shang Chi who has been turned into a whole different character and only has the name and the martial arts in common with the comics guy.

You can give any of those characters an established villain from the MU, build an original story et voilà.

For BM, there is always Anti-Man, or they can even build on the foes hinted in Mighty Avengers. Or maybe mix the Neutral Zone with the Negative Zone, and have BM fight Blastaar and Annihilus.
Mosaic can star in a Quantum-Leap like series, with some cameo characters whose body he could borrow.
With Brother Voodoo, New Orleans is a whole world of magic worth exploring, and there are enough demons and mystical creatures in the MU for him to pick one.

[kcekada]

While that is 100% true and a logical way to go.

The issue is how much material do some of the already established black characters have? Especially material that shows them in a decent to excellent light.

Excluding Deathlok, NightWatch, Blue Marvel, Brother Voodoo, Mosaic, Reno Jones & Nightmask-every other black male who held a solo or mini has sniffed live action (Night Thrasher almost twice).

I'm a huge fan of Wonder Man in the comic book. I don't know how far this series will depart from the character in the comics. To get me interested, they'll have to retain some aspects from the comic books -- like his first over the top outfit. But I also agree that changing the character's race is going to be an adjustment not just for the comic book readers who are familiar with a white Simon, but also any TV viewers who want to read his adventures in the comic books -- only to see that he's white.

But, I guess, on some level, it makes a little more sense with a character like Wonder Man -- who is mostly an unknown outside of the comic books. If I wasn't a fan, I'd not care as much.

[Frontier]

To me I just feel like a disconnect from seeing him in other roles versus playing Simon.

No longer a rumour it seems. They are indeed talking to Yahya Abdul-Mateen II about playing Simon.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv...st-1235244373/

I think I know why they're race-lifting him. Riri. She has the same last name, maybe he'll be her uncle, unlike in the comics where they're completely unconnected?

That would be so random.

[Digifiend]

Yeah, but face it, Simon's canon relationships cannot be ported to the MCU, except for Grim Reaper. He isn't the mind used for the Vision (that's the Jarvis AI in the MCU). He also presumably won't be an ex-villain who once fought the Avengers. Even the more recent stuff with Rogue is no-go (he's the one who gave her back the flying brick powers she once got from Carol Danvers), due to Anna not yet being introduced.

Plus, if they're casting him now, isn't it possible that he could debut in Riri's show before getting his own?

[Bolo]

My problem with this casting is very simple, I have always seen Williams like a DC character inside Marvel, the archetype of Superhero, a white guy with short dark hair, a male version of Wonder Woman in some way, we lost this aspect with this casting, I see Williams like the typical nice good looking white guy who can't have a role, a nicer version of Johnny Cage, for me his origin is important for this role, to see the power inside this nice WASP appearance in other words a superhero "Clark Kent", for me that the same thing for Rogue, for me she is a typical redneck girl (that make all her charm), and Gambit (a cajun) who should have french ancestors.

To be honest, specially a visual medium like comicbook, appearance including races, is always important to various degree and eveybody have their sinceres opinions about that, it's for that some peoples are not happy with Shang Chi, Hercules, Namor recents casting, because Marvel begin to be maybe too open for these roles (and not onely for the tall muscular pretty boys).

There are rumor that Feige wanted a DCEU actor for the role, I suppose that he have tried to have Cavill before him (for me he would have been perfect).

BUT I wonder if they have chosen Yahya because he is a New Orlean guy like Black Talion ? To create a direct between them to explain his ressurection, and maybe his powers, I really like Wonder-Man but his story is a little too chaotic.

Or instead they could have made a Power Man tv show but with some Simon elements (the actor stuff etc...), they have already done that.

[Phoenixx9]

I was looking for a handsome dude with flowing locks, lots of muscles and a very hairy chest to play Wonder Man who is handsome, has flowing hair, lots of muscles and a hairy chest. Also good acting, a serious tone to the movie, and a classic costume.

We will have to wait to see if we get any of that.....