Mary Jane Watson-Parker Appreciation 2022

[TinkerSpider]

'Renew Your Vows' was always a trick title, Peter and MJ didn't have a single maritial problem in that story and were air-tight, it wasn't about the marriage or the family, that was a bonus, the theme of the story was Peter coming to grips with breaking his no-kill code and 'renewing' his vow to adhere to that by defeating Regent and sparing his life despite all he had done to the world.

I agree. I bolded the pertinent bit.

The reason I said he was unsuccessful was because Renew Your Vows wasn't a tribute to the relationship between Peter and Mary Jane nor supporting the idea of them being married; it tried to show fans they need be careful when they wish for Peter to be a committed relationship with a child because that would turn him into a killer - thus breaking one of the character's sacred no-nos. Slott explicitly called the story a monkey's paw.

Also, IMO the renewed vow was "with great power, etc." Peter breaks that vow - the Vulture snatches someone's purse and he keep walking - but by the end he's back in costume and helping others. But no-kill? At the end, MJ asks if he would have killed the Regent to save Annie and Peter doesn't answer, but by the sad/stunned look on MJ's face we can infer the answer was yes (and since she was the one who pointed out the coast was clear to kill Venom, a bit hypocritical there, MJ).

Did fans care a married Peter meant he was okay with killing? No, because we'd been starved of positive MJ/Peter content and we were happy to take what we could get. And Slott did write MJ and Annie as likable and kick ass (although I'm personally tired of seeing female love interests bound and gagged). Plus, the circumstances were extinuating (and AU). And while demonstrating marriage and family would fundamentally destroy a key underpinning of Spider-Man may have been an intent of the original RYV, that didn't stop the Renew Your Vows spin-off with all three characters as active superheroes from running for 23 issues (although it did take over a year for the RYV spin-off to appear on shelves while other Secret Wars spin-offs followed directly).

The story was meant to be an argument against Peter and MJ being married, not for it. It just backfired.

Anyway, this is why I am not at all enthused about Slott writing a "tribute" to Peter's and MJ's relationship. But I'm willing to wait and see.

That's what I thought too (except for the Superior part), but it worries me how exactly Moira is going to "wear" Mary Jane. Last time she did, she killed Banshee and used his skin as a disguise to enter Krakoa. Clearly, to infiltrate on Krakoa, that's not going to work; because people will notice a skinsuit rotting.

Moira's "When ye wake you I'll be wearing ye" makes no sense. That implies MJ will be conscious at some point during Moira's "wearing." That doesn't seem like a good plan on Moira's part, unless she means in a "Ghost Peter during Superior" way...which doesn't bode well for MJ's health.

[Huntsman Spider]

Do people here really think they're actually gonna kill her? Moira says "WHEN you WAKE UP I'll be wearing you.", she doesn't even say "if" so that means Moira still wants MJ to be alive. Also, I think Superior was actually pretty great.

That's what I thought too (except for the Superior part), but it worries me how exactly Moira is going to "wear" Mary Jane. Last time she did, she killed Banshee and used his skin as a disguise to enter Krakoa. Clearly, to infiltrate on Krakoa, that's not going to work; because people will notice a skinsuit rotting.

She could just be using some kind of built-in inducer based on a genetic scan to mimic Mary Jane's appearance. Who knows what kind of s*** Moira XI has in her now that we've never seen before?

[TinkerSpider]

She could just be using some kind of built-in inducer based on a genetic scan to mimic Mary Jane's appearance. Who knows what kind of s*** Moira XI has in her now that we've never seen before?

That's a very good point...

[WebLurker]

Slott explicitly called the story a monkey's paw.

Remember that (not to mention all the mad speculation over what it all really meant and why Slott wrote something that was so different from his mainline work). Personally, I think he played himself over the monkey's paw. Course, his interpretation of Spider-Man was always unconventional and not exactly the same as had come before.

[Celgress]

I don't know what the Webs is Marvel doing, but if they dare to actually kill Mary Jane, I'm going to get even madder than when Marvel did the whole "Superior Spider-Man".

I do wonder if the "MJ" we see in the six months flash-forward is not actually MJ but rather Moira either wearing MJ's skin *yuck* or somehow possessing MJ (Moria has been upgraded into a full cyborg so unlike with her previous attempts maybe she can more seamlessly use other people)? It would explain "MJ's" odd behavior including her new domestic situation.

[Lukmendes]

Dunno, outside of the original Secret Wars teaser, Marvel was pretty upfront that it was an AU series. Heck, I always took the title to be a meta one referring to it's context as a married Spider-Man story published in the midst of the OMD status quo being standard for years (not to mention Slott's then-current run not exactly being all that supportive of them in the first place).

Renew Your Vows being in the name when it's a title about Spidey having a family is a bait for marriage fans no matter how you slice it lol.

Man, Regent was a thing...that of course made it into the Slott Spider-Man cartoon :P.

He did? Man... That cartoon was picking too much from Slott lol.

At least Sony hasn't announced a Regent movie.

Yet... :P

If that announcement happens, I know who to blame now .

I don't think Regent was a bad concept in and of itself, just that Slott failed to make the character really work in the original mini.

Regent in the mini was just there to be a colossal obstable for Spidey to overcome, so at least in that he, kinda, worked.

Or in 616, really.

In 616 he's just "I was sad once so now I'm sucking the powers from all super-heroes", and, that just made him a really strong guy who then wasn't really strong, eh.

I don't know what the Webs is Marvel doing, but if they dare to actually kill Mary Jane, I'm going to get even madder than when Marvel did the whole "Superior Spider-Man".

It's really unlikely MJ will be killed outside of ASM, specially by a villain who has nothing to do with Spidey, unless Marvel decided to make Moira be to Spidey what Major Force became to Kyle Rayner, but, even if they wanted to do that, I don't see it happening outside of ASM or a Spidey related event.

Do people here really think they're actually gonna kill her? Moira says "WHEN you WAKE UP I'll be wearing you.", she doesn't even say "if" so that means Moira still wants MJ to be alive.

Hey, she said "When ye wake up", respect the accent, it doesn't show up much .

Moira's "When ye wake you I'll be wearing ye" makes no sense. That implies MJ will be conscious at some point during Moira's "wearing." That doesn't seem like a good plan on Moira's part, unless she means in a "Ghost Peter during Superior" way...which doesn't bode well for MJ's health.

On the bright side she'll be able to relate to Spidey about being basically a ghost when some annoying douchebag pretends to be her, and she'd be able to relate to him even more if Moira does a terrible job at it and nobody can tell .

I do wonder if the "MJ" we see in the six months flash-forward is not actually MJ but rather Moira either wearing MJ's skin *yuck* or somehow possessing MJ (Moria has been upgraded into a full cyborg so unlike with her previous attempts maybe she can more seamlessly use other people)? It would explain "MJ's" odd behavior including her new domestic situation.

It wouldn't explain why Moira would stick around or to pretend to be MJ so much she keeps doing so even in private moments.

But then again, Marvel's hack writing can reach fanfiction level of garbage so why the hell not, hell, they can say Moira Jane was part of Mysterio's magic therapy™ and now she thinks she's MJ.

Whoever came up with the Moira Jane nickname deserves a handshake by the way, it's so funny lol.

[Frontier]

Now I want to find the first poster to use Moira Jane. I don't think it was Kevin, but whoever it was, thank you .

[Celgress]

.....It wouldn't explain why Moira would stick around or to pretend to be MJ so much she keeps doing so even in private moments.

But then again, Marvel's hack writing can reach fanfiction level of garbage so why the hell not, hell, they can say Moira Jane was part of Mysterio's magic therapy™ and now she thinks she's MJ.

Whoever came up with the Moira Jane nickname deserves a handshake by the way, it's so funny lol.

No doubt Moira Jane stuck around as part of some contrived scheme she has hatched (assuming my theory is correct). I'd rather this "MJ" be Moira Jane than be the real MJ considering how she treats Peter in the flash-forward.

[Tabs]

Why wouldn't Moira Mactaggert want to be Mary Jane Watson?
FRdjQomWQAMuvAz.jpg
She's possibly having the time of her life.

[Celgress]

Why wouldn't Moira Mactaggert want to be Mary Jane Watson?
FRdjQomWQAMuvAz.jpg
She's possibly having the time of her life.

Hahaha, and it would be the latest example of the legendary Parker Luck. My love interest got skinned/possessed/eaten/whatever by an evil insane cyborg, poor guy can't catch a break...

[Lukmendes]

Now I want to find the first poster to use Moira Jane. I don't think it was Kevin, but whoever it was, thank you :P.

The earliest one I remember is by Snoop Dogg:

Moira Jane is the waif Pete Park deserves. 10 lives of dom experience to give him that sentinel swirl game.

I don't know if that's the first one, but it's the earliest one I saw, or at least noticed, and posts after this started to use Moira Jane too.

If only this website's search option wasn't ass, if it worked like say, Discord's search option, finding the earliest "Moira Jane" would be piss easy.

No doubt Moira Jane stuck around as part of some contrived scheme she has hatched (assuming my theory is correct).

Maybe she's admiring MJ's acting after "I saw ye on TV" and is doing everything she can to be in-character, including those private moments, method acting and all.

I'd rather this "MJ" be Moira Jane than be the real MJ considering how she treats Peter in the flash-forward. :P

Maybe we can use a random moment from Slott's She-Hulk run where he says that everytime a character is acting out of character, it's because some random counterpart took their place and acted poorly, only this time, it was Moira Jane in post OMD all along.

Now, some of you may ask "How could that work if OMD happens way before Moira became a robot who replaced MJ?", and the answer is

Why wouldn't Moira Mactaggert want to be Mary Jane Watson?
FRdjQomWQAMuvAz.jpg
She's possibly having the time of her life.

After living in some isolated room where all she does is read Destiny's books, interact with douchebags like Magneto and Xavier, and only go out to eat in restaurants, which none of those things sound any fun, and after she can't do those anymore, being hunted by Mystique and then dying and having the backup memories become Omega Sentinel ripoff, pretending to be MJ all to troll Spidey definitely sounds more fun than getting into X-Men's nonsense again .

Hahaha, and it would be the latest example of the legendary Parker Luck. My love interest got skinned/possessed/eaten/whatever by an evil insane cyborg, poor guy can't catch a break... ;D

On the bright side, MJ will be able to relate to him about how much it sucks to have someone replace you by pretending to be you .

Like ****, Spidey had that happen like at least four times, one by Kraven, two by Chameleon, one by Otto.

Kinda weird that more than one Kravinov replaced him now that I think of it, maybe clone Kraven or Ana should have their turn next .

[Matt Rat]

Peter and MJ have two placements on "8 harsh realities facing Spider-Man fans"

Number Eight

Spider-Man fans were not at all happy when Marvel used Mephisto to retcon Spider-Man and Mary Jane's marriage into oblivion. While Spider-Man comics have still been one of Marvel's best-selling titles in the interim and produced some beloved stories, the Spider-Man fandom has always been vocally against the marriage retcon. Marvel has found novel ways to take advantage of this outrage by baiting readers with the hopes of re-establishing the relationship.

It's a rather cynical way to keep sales up. Many fans keep buying even if they think the current run is lackluster — something that is depressingly common with modern Spider-Man comics — in the hope that Peter and Mary Jane get back together at the end. Marvel has no intention of doing it any time soon, yet they're not going to stop stringing readers along.

Number Two

One More Day is the most infamous Spider-Man story of all time. Frankly, it's the cause of every problem with modern Spider-Man comics. It was the brainchild of Brevoort and Quesada as a way to "fix" Spider-Man, something that was strangely a recurring theme of Quesada's tenure as EiC of Marvel, even though sales were still quite high. Brevoort and Quesada are still two of the most powerful people at Marvel, so there's no hope of it ever being undone while they are there.

One More Day is one of modern Marvel's most influential stories for all the wrong reasons. Marvel had to know how badly everyone would react to it, since even internally creators were against it. Fans have hated it since day one, so the company obviously doesn't care about their opinion of it. It's here to stay, no matter how hated it is.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-spider-ma...tes-downsides/

[Kevinroc]

Peter and MJ have two placements on "8 harsh realities facing Spider-Man fans"

Number Eight



Number Two




https://www.cbr.com/marvel-spider-ma...tes-downsides/

This is way more cynical than I expected from CBR.

[Matt Rat]

I do wonder if the "MJ" we see in the six months flash-forward is not actually MJ but rather Moira either wearing MJ's skin *yuck* or somehow possessing MJ (Moria has been upgraded into a full cyborg so unlike with her previous attempts maybe she can more seamlessly use other people)? It would explain "MJ's" odd behavior including her new domestic situation.

Come to think of it, I believe Spencer attempted to allude to the MJ from BND onwards and throughout Slott's run as having been a different character altogether via that "demonic" MJ that attacked Strange and the Order of the Web during their trip to Peter's domain in the astral plane. That angle got dropped after Last Remains, but since it happened, and given the jarring 180 MJ made to reconcile with Peter in the first place in Spencer's run, I think there was meant to be something more to this.

[Tabs]

Come to think of it, I believe Spencer attempted to allude to the MJ from BND onwards and throughout Slott's run as having been a different character altogether via that "demonic" MJ that attacked Strange and the Order of the Web during their trip to Peter's domain in the astral plane. That angle got dropped after Last Remains, but since it happened, and given the jarring 180 MJ made to reconcile with Peter in the first place in Spencer's run, I think there was meant to be something more to this.

Calling it now: White Kindred was Mary Jane Watson, who was Moira Mactaggert all along.